SForsgren
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7686
posted
Where do you get it?
-------------------- Be well, Scott Posts: 4617 | From San Jose, CA | Registered: Jul 2005
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Gordon Medical Associates in Santa Rosa?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
It's one of Byron's herbal formulas, Scott. Weren't you on A-Bart?
Basically, they've been testing out some new and exotic stuff as an alternative to the Buhner Protocol for the past couple of years, and my doctor there swears by it and says they get better results than Buhner's herbs.
I never talk about it on Lymenet because you just can't get it without being a patient there. I do know one patient who is on A-bab (babesia formula) and A-L (the lyme formula) and he's controlling his exhaustion just with those, hasn't started antibiotics or Mepron yet, and he's been sick for years, so it sounds like it works exactly as advertised for him.
I haven't tried A-Bart but I'm on a couple of the others as of a month ago. My boyfriend tried the babesia one when he had malaria, the malaria eventually cleared up with that and cryptolepsis and artemesinin, but it took longer than expected with artemesinin (turns out he had Lyme also and didn't know it).
It's too early to report for me on the Lyme one for me, I just went up in dosage to 3/4 dose and honestly my doctor and I don't really know what's wrong with me at this point as my symptoms changed drastically after being symptom-free for a while, so it might be a new infection or an infection with something else (I got re-bit by another tick this summer and got sick again. Whatever it is that I have didn't respond to antibiotics so far either, so I'm wondering if it's babesia or something).
A-FNG (the candida one) seems to work for me but I have been hitting candida with a lot of other stuff for a long time at this point. It stinks of garlic like you wouldn't imagine, it's a tarry, concentrated extract of some sort (allicin?). The other formulas are a pleasant spicy mixture of smells. I wouldn't boil off alcohol, some of the constituents might be volatile essential oils based on the smell, and I think there's so little alcohol in a dose that it shouldn't matter (15 drops is a dose for the A-L and the A-bab formula, 5-7 drops for the A-FNG formula). The stuff doens't smell strongly of alcohol, anyway.
I'm annoyed (not at them) that it's proprietary stuff and there's no way to research what's in it. I know that what Byron did was more or less what Buhner did- he read tons of old studies on pre-antibiotics-era treatment research for syphillis, malaria, and other related illnesses and relapsing fevers, and based on the information he found, came up with his own combo (there were a lot of good studies on herbal treatment for things like syphilis before the coming of antibiotics provided an easier cure).
He also has some way to extract the active ingredients into a very concentrated form- it doesn't look like just a plain tincture to me and the dosages are miniscule compared to Buhner's usual recommendations for tinctures.
Anyway, if you're taking the formula, just give them a call and ask about the dosage, even if you aren't a patient there. Personally, I wouldn't boil off anything because we don't know if that's a good idea and due to the aromatic formula I have I would worry about altering something.
Also- important- my doctor said to start with tiny doses and scale up. It was something like 'start with 3 drops twice a day and increase every couple of days' for the a-bab and the a-lyme one. Target dose for those was 15 drops twice a day.
I thought I had a herx reaction to 3 drops of eihter, but that might have been something other than a herx. I backed down to 1 drop or 2, then scaled up without problems recently. I started taking the evening dose right before bed so I don't have to be 'awake' for whatever goes wrong if I herx. My friend who's on the babesia formula says that the Lyme formula knocked him out pretty badly too at the starter dose of 3 drops, so I don't think it's just me.
I don't know if the bart formula has the same kind of dosing as the other two. Remember, the fungal one is totally different, so it's not necessarily the case.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
OK, I just smelled all three of the formulas I have, and they don't smell of alcohol at all. I work with ethanol alcohol at my chemistry job so I know what to expect. I also have an extremely keen sense of smell and I don't drink alcohol, for what it's worth to my unscientific test here.
By contrast, my eleuthero tincture from Gaia Herbs smells a bit like brandy or rum or some other pleasant ethanol/water preparation (that's normal for tinctures, the water takes out some constituents and the alcohol takes others from the chopped herbs they used to make it). My Herb Pharm astragalus tincture smells faintly of vodka type ethanol, but it's still much stronger than anything I (can't) smell in Byron's formulas.
For a point of reference on dosages of herb and alcohol tinctures, the normal dosage with many tinctures is a dropperful (30-40 drops) up to one teaspoonful (three dropperfuls) at a time. Byron's formulas (the ones I have anyway) have a dosage of 5-15 drops, so I doubt it's just a tincture with ethanol like a normal tincture is prepared, and I doubt the amount of alcohol in it would matter much even if you can't tolerate alcohol.
I can take a big deep whiff of the formula and get none of that slight 'burning' sensation in my nose at all, that is normally caused by sniffing alcohol.
Maria "I am not a chemist but I play one on the internet" A.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Thanks for all the info. Mine says 40% alcohol on the label and that is why I was worried because my yeast count does not need any more fuel. I am dealing with itchy skin from hell.
Should I do my doses at any certain times like between meals?
I am so glad to know that these formulas are helping people! It is very positive news.
I have heard very positive things about the babs formula.
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
That's interesting- mine doesn't- it must be different for the bart one (or I'm wrong).
I don't know the answer to your question, most stuff is better without food unless it messes with your stomach or causes nauses, which my version of the formulas don't.
You know, if you have questions about this, call GMA. I'm guessing that you've gotten the herbs from someone else who's a patient- I think they'd still answer dosage questions, it's not like this is a prescription drug and they're totally aware of how desparate Lymies are.
They're sometimes disorganized in the front office and the phone seems to be ringing off the hook, so it might take persistence. You could probably email or call and ask for Byron himself if you're not already a patient.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
Thank you everyone for your replies. I just got off the phone with BW. He was very helpful and he gave me complete detailed directions and instructions. He said I could put it in a tiny bit of warm water.
He instructed me to ramp up very very slowly as well.
It turns out I saw him briefly years ago as a patient before I was diagnosed and before he was working at the clinic he is currently working at.
The formula I am taking is herbal and not homeopathic. It reeks of garlic. I started off with my first drop today and I can hardly wait to see Bart run...
posted
I don't want to keep calling BW and bothering him with questions.
Does anyone have any idea what is in the formula who has taken it before and if it could cause gum irritation?
I have been putting the drops in warm water as instructed but it seems to be bothering my gum which is already irritated as is.
Also I seem to be perspiring more than usual at night and after eating. I am up to six drops twice a day could the drops be causing this?
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Hee--I can't wait to see bart run! Excellent Angelica! Is BW the herbalist there? What happened to WA, I thought he was doing the herbs. I was offered the bart herb at my appt there but declined bc I didn't feel comfortable taking it without knowing what was in it.
Maria/Angelica, do you see WB or EG for your LLMDs? I saw WB, who I liked a lot.
Do people take these with abx?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
WA is the person I see at this clinic.
I don't believe he makes the herbal formulas--BW does that.
I've taken A-Bab and now A-Bart.
Yes, you can get wierd reactions. That's why it's important to ramp up slowly. I kept at the same dose for at least 5-7 days.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I see WA for my first visit at that clinic in Nov.
BW makes the herbal formulas there. I spoke with BW a while back about his formulas on the phone. I wish the bart formula tasted better. I dread taking it due to the taste but I am thankful to have it.
I am not taking mine with any abx so I don't know CD57 if you can or not. I have not taken any abx for awhile.
Off to go choke down my current 7 drops....
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