lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
I sure hope a lot of folks click on this thread for whatever reason. Especially a lot of the new names I see here lately.
A lot of times I here a whole lot of people saying that they are having a herx reaction when
it'w just a flare-up of symptoms because it happens to be their time of the month or 28days
that the spirochetes are regenerating offspring.
If you look up at the sky at night whenever you feel these feelings or you have plotted out your
particular time of the month/28days. You will probably see either a full moon which happens
approximately 28days apart or you will know it's comming because you have plotted out your monthly flare up.
As far as I am aware, the true Jarosch-Herxeimer reaction is associated with spirochetal bacteria
like borrelia burgdorferi spirochete or syphilis which is also a spirochete. This phenom or term
was first associated with syphilis by Drs. Jarosch and Herxeimer when they noticed an
exacerbation of symptoms when treating syphilis with penicillin before they ever got better.
They coined the phrase and its what
happens when killing off spirochetes. As they die they release neurotoxins in the body and these make us sick.
This reacion is often times confused with a flare up of symptoms. I've seen it here
associated with everything under the sun and by treating lyme(the spirochete)which it should, but
seemingly, every co-infection that comes with the tick bite and ensueing co-infections.
I would like to suggest to all who have lyme disease and possible co-infections.
Not all treatments we take will kill spirochetes folks and will not elicit a herx.
Granted, not enough is known
about the number of strains of spirochetes we may have or co-infections either.
However, whenever anyone feels they are experiencing a true Jarosch-Herxeimer one has to
take stock in what it is you're treating at the time and the time of the month in correlation to a normal spirochetal flare-up.
It would be my estimation that if anyone were still experiencing flare-ups at a certain time
of the month...then that patient would still have some degree of load of spirochetes infecting their bodies.
It would also be true if one were taking any abx that was effective against spirochetes true, but,
what a lot of patients either don't know or don't seem to make the connection with is the
normal growth pattern of spirochetes causeing 28day flareups.
NOT a true Jarosch-Herxeimer effect.
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
I used OLE for years when I thought I had CFS/FM and knew I had chronic mono (EBV). I thought it was good for killing viruses.
Part of my lyme treatment turned out to be OLE for the EBV. I really don't have viral symptoms now, and haven't for most of this year--I started treatment a year ago.
I was taking one pill a day, and was put up to 2000mg, that's 6 pills a day, spaced with meals.
I believe it's not just good for viruses, but a host of infections--it's anti-everything, from what I've heard.
Posts: 552 | From New Mexico, USA | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
djf2005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11449
posted
tony-
i agree and second your opinion on the cycle, although what i am experiencing with the ole is not cyclical. ive been around a few times friend.. i agree tho,lots of newbies and lots of scared sick people who dont know what is going on. its a shame.
daisy- thanks for the info..
cheers
derek
-------------------- "Experience is not what happens to you; it is what you do with what happens to you."
posted
I was on OLE for my EBV for most of July and August.
I literally became an exhausted zombie within 24 hours of starting the OLE. Unlike other medications I didn't get a true herx where you feel bad for a few days or weeks, and then get ups and downs. I just got worse and worse.
My latest CBC was sort of scary with low, out of range, WBC and Hemocrit. I don't know if there was any correlation to the OLE, but I did lower my dosage and stopped taking it altogether about a week ago.
So far I'm still overly exhausted but seem to be coming out of the "zombie-like" state.
I recommend sticking with the OLE for at least a month, and if you are still feeling bad then discuss alternatives with your doctor.
Hope you feel better soon.
Erica
Posts: 408 | From California | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Olive leaf extract can kill many G.I. bugs -- not just candida. A couple of years ago hubby had antibiotic induced diarrhea -- tests showed klebsiella and enterovirus and I think a couple of other things. He took 2 or 3 500 mg capsules of olive leaf extract daily -- stopped the diarrhea within a few days. He continued with the OLE for several months I think.
He was on probiotics at the time -- was not a candida problem.
At the time I don't remember him having any herx reaction.
Have read that Dr S in Florida thinks olive leaf extract can help with Bart (very high dose I think) -- not sure about this. On my list of things to try for hubby sometime soon.
Have read that the Seagate brand in really good. Hubby took Solgar standardized product in the past.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I take OLE I will herx within a few hours...everytime I take it. So, yes, it does cause a die off of something. My LLMD warns of the herxes with OLE because they can be severe.
-------------------- Amy
Diagnosed April 29, 2007. Posts: 136 | From Joplin, MO | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic