Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi, I believe I've had Lyme for 12 years now (since age 17). An Alternative doc diagnosed me with Lyme and one co-infection last fall with electrodermal testing. I still want to get the blood test, but am pretty sure I have Lyme. I sometimes will wake up with a swollen, stiff, very painful knee (I am 29 years of age and not overweight).
I am generally pretty tired and I have many other symptoms of Lyme. However, my worst one is my anxiety and panic attacks. At 18 I also had anxiety which turned into horrible depression, and I had nothing to be depressed about. I used to drive places and would forget where I was going and where I was (very scary). I feel like I am falling into that again, and my anxiety has gotten very frightening.
I've read that some people also get panic attacks with Lyme. Is there anything that can help? I am not currently being treated due to insurance issues (we have a health savings account which is currently depleted as my husband has to buy insulin and supplies for his type 1 diabetes).
I'm feeling discouraged and fearful that my 4 year old also has Lyme (she complains sometimes about her knee hurting), I also had horrible anxiety during her pregnancy and subsequent 2 years of breastfeeding.
feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
Oh yes! Most definately. Please find a LLMD for proper diagnosis and treatment.
Feelfit
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Yes, anxiety is sometimes a major presenting symptom - and sometimes, the only one - or so it seems until a thorough clinical evaluation.
[edited to add: for symptom support] I'm a fan of herbs and don't do well with pharmaceuticals at all (my liver does not process them well and even a very tiny amount of anything can knock me out). So, others who are better versed in that will come along.
I'd suggest the regular tincture of cat's claw, adding scullcap tincture at night (when you won't be driving).
Rx, wise: A tiny dose of xanax has helped many lyme patients to calm the nervous system.
Anxiety can also be from an overwhelmed endocrine system. The adrenal "fight or flight" response goes on red-alert from the lyme toxins in the body.
Liver support - to get toxins out helps.
Stopping anything that adds stress to the liver helps (alcohol, etc.)
Ultimately, treatment for infection(s) has helped many see the anxiety associated with lyme vanish.
I hope you can find a good LLMD.
phone just rang... back later.
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[ 09. September 2008, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Yes, bi-polar or manic-depression seems to be what you suffer from...which IS consistant with lyme disease....
course if you take an antidepressant and you go manic you will not get any relief from the mania...
antibiotics IV in particular would probably do you the most good at this stage...
Possibly a good ssri although some have said these drugs bother them I have found lexapro to be quite good for me after trying several others with bad results...
it is possible you passed this on to your child or she got infected meerely due to proximity...in any event you should seek a llmd in your area...go to the "find a doctor" section of this website and gain help finding a llmd.
Your daughter will probably need a test as well as your husband and anyone else in the family.
Keep a paper bag handy for the panic attacks...and breath into it whenever the need arises...
I had the same type of geographical problems driving routes I drove when I worked as a service rep....
Try to remember that these are typical symptoms of the disease...and they will get better with treatment....
This may help you in a panic state...or even in a manic/depressed state....
PLEASE TRY to remember we've all been where you are now and I believe most of us have gotten better after getting an llmd and abx treatments.
The alternatives are good adjuncts however if you are short of cash they won't substitute for the real thing and you'll....IMHO....waste time and money on them...
been there done that!
get your family a doctor...one that will treat you all....
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi, Thank you both for your quick replies! I am so tired of feeling like this and am aware that I may never be 100% again, but 2 years ago I was much better than I am currently.
I would like to go as natural as possible. With my anxiety this time, everytime I've tried to take something has resulted in me being afraid that I will have an allergic reaction to it (I have NEVER had an allergic reaction to anything!), which has resulted in a few bad panic attacks!
I am aware that you can order labtests online and have considered that, the Ignex is over $500, but would be cheaper than me finding a Lyme doc and getting the test. I guess I fear getting a doc and the test being negative and then feeling like I've wasted additional money.
Would this be a good thing to do? If you aren't familiar with it, you pay online and go to a local lab for the blood draw.
Anyhow, Thanks so much, I guess this anxiety just makes me so fearful that the next 'big panic attack' is going to kill me (fear is that something is really wrong, even though I've had it off and on for over a decade).
Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi Tony Z, Thanks for your reply as well, I think I was writing when you replied, so I didn't see it. I know I'm not bi-polar because I don't have mania. I'm an RN and during nursing school saw several bi-polar patients. Mine is just anxiety and depression, fearing that I will die constantly and obsessive thoughts about being afraid to drive in case I have an attack and get into an accident.
I've had a lot of muscle twitching lately too which I've taken extra MG, but read that the Lyme lifecycle needs mg, so i'm feeding them and not killing them, maybe why my symptoms have increased?
Anyhow, I am considering the antibitoic route. Was on one last fall for a bit due to cellulitis caused from poison ivy and within a few weeks, mentally I felt really good (didn't make the connection at the time with the antibiotics possibly killing some of the Lyme).
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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The magnesium can be confusing. But, we actually have to keep giving our bodies magnesium anyway as some very serious effects can be a result of hypomagnesia. Bb eats it up, but our cells still need it.
B-6, though, really helps it get into the cells.
Marnie has had some great posts about magnesium if you have time to search by her name in search feature just above.
I'll gather some links for you and be back later.
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[ 09. September 2008, 05:30 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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D Bergy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9984
posted
If you can get the inflammation under control there is a good chance the anxiety will fade also.
You will find anxiety and depression are symptoms of any disease that causes an extended inflammatory immune response.
Good antiinflammatory products that also help with Lyme disease are Fish or Krill Oil, Turmeric and Ginger. You may need doses higher than those recommended. All of these have slight blood thinning properties so that needs to be considered if you are already on a blood thinning medication.
D Bergy
Posts: 2919 | From Minnesota | Registered: Aug 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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At your request for complementary medicine sources, here a few links. You may be able to borrow the books from your area lyme support group.
And, if your health insurance fund has anyway for you to see a doctor, some LLMDs do take some insurance.
I would normally say that if you have just a few dollars to try allicin or olive leaf extract or andrograhis. I am pleased and amazed with the results of andrographis that I've just recently begun. It is detailed in the Buhner book and also mentioned in the Singleton book.
And you will find many abstracts at PubMed - or other sources that you can access, being an RN. While mono-therapy is never recommended for any of the tick-borne diseases (TBD), andrographis is a very good base, IMO.
And, as D Bergy says, "Fish or Krill Oil, Turmeric and Ginger" are excellent choices. Two of those are likely in your kitchen cupboard.
Still, I hope you can find expert advice. Please know that this can get better even you can't quite see how.
You might also ask at your local support group if someone has a rife machine that they may not be using right now. Rife has helped many.
The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.
- 2/3 down the page, you can download Guidelines for the management of Lyme disease
Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine - by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang
you can access his web site through www.hepapro.com or try www.sinomedresearch.org and use "clinic" and then "clinic" for the passwords or call Hepapro.
A synergistic formula of 6 rainforest botanicals which are traditionally used in South America for syphilis (a type of spirochete bacteria) and other bacterial conditions.* This product was featured in an article by the Health Sciences Institute (see page 4).
Third-Party Published Research* - links to research articles
Lyme Community Forums was founded in November of 2006 for the purpose of facilitating communication, collaboration, and friendship among the Lyme Disease community.
poster's opinion (from experience and observation): while few get well without attention to nutrition and supporting the liver and adrenals with specific supplements, anyone considering complementary approaches should be sure to have first read the abx protocol for a better grasp of the task at hand.
Basic, supportive herbs to "get the body stronger" are NEVER enough to get over lyme or coinfections. Very specific attention must be paid to the nature, life-span and forms of each tick-borne disease (TBD), whether with pharmaceuticals or supplements - or a combination.
Each infection is treated differently and it is no minor undertaking. It is best to seek guidance with skilled professionals who are truly lyme and TBD literate. They will know, specifically, how to proceed.
Some naturopathic physicians (NDs) are also ILADS members.
STARTING DOSAGE: * Tincture: 20-40 drops, two to six times per day - Note: use only in tincture form
WHAT IT DOES: Scullcap is bitter in taste and cooling in action. It calms the nerves.
Scullcap tincture is an excellent and extremely reliable nervine. It relaxes and strengthens the nervous system in a manner that can be felt within thirty minutes.
. . . It is strong enough that it will calm anxiety in fairly serious situations . . . .
According to King's American Dispensatory, Scullcap "is tonic, nervine and anti-spasmodic,'' and ``it has proved especially useful in chorea, convulsions, tremors, intermittent fever, neuralgia, and many nervous affections.
In all cases of nervous excitability, restlessness, or wakefulness, attending or following acute or chronic disease, from physical or mental overwork, or from other causes, it may be drunk freely with every expectation of beneficial results.
When its soothing effects have ceased, it does not leave an excitable, irritable condition of the system, as is the case with some other nervines" (Felter and Lloyd, 1898).
Dried scullcap, commonly found in over-the-counter herbal preparations, is basically inert, and therefore useless. The related Chinese herb scute root is more anti-inflammatory and less calming in action.
Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Keebler, Bless you! I have just talked with my husband and he said that apparently, the most we will have to pay out of pocket is $1500 and insurance will pick up the rest. So I'm making an appointment today.
We should be able to throw it on a credit card for now, I will definitely look at the materials you suggested. I just had a moderate panic attack, I think caused partly by worry that the Lyme is really damaging my body, even though I have no difficulty walking, ect (although I USED to run into everything and the brain fog was excruiating).
I will certainly keep you updated on my progress, I am planning to go to a doc in the bay area (where we just moved) whose father apparently owns the IGNEX labs, so he should have a good understanding of Lyme.
To evaluate whether electrodermal testing for environmental allergies can distinguish between volunteers who had previously reacted positively on skin prick tests for allergy to house dust mite or cat dander and volunteers who had reacted negatively to both allergens.
Design:
Double blind, randomised block design.
Setting:
A general practice in southern England.
Participants:
15 volunteers who had a positive result and 15 volunteers who had a negative result on a previous skin prick test for allergy to house dust mite or cat dander.
Intervention:
Each participant was tested with 6 items by each of 3 operators of the Vegatest electrodermal testing device in 3 separate sessions (a total of 54 tests per participant).
For each participant the 54 items comprised 18 samples each of house dust mite, cat dander, and distilled water, though these were randomly allocated among the operators in each session.
A research nurse sat with the participant and operator in all sessions to ensure blinding and adherence to the protocol and to record the outcome of each test.
Outcome:
The presence or absence of an allergy according to the standard protocol for electrodermal testing.
Results:
All the non-atopic participants completed all 3 testing sessions (810 individual tests); 774 (95.5%) of the individual tests conducted on the atopic participants complied with the testing protocol.
The results of the electrodermal tests did not correlate with those of the skin prick tests.
Electrodermal testing could not distinguish between atopic and non-atopic participants.
No operator of the Vegatest device was better than any other, and no single participant's atopic status was consistently correctly diagnosed.
Conclusion:
Electrodermal testing cannot be used to diagnose environmental allergies.
*****************
I'm thinking you may want to consider another form of testing or find an LLMD that can diagnose based on symptoms and probability of exposure, etc, not relying on faulty testing as a diagnostic source and do the necessary rule-outs done for other diseases, IMO.
Have you ever knowingly been bitten by a tick?
-------------------- Note: I'm NOT a medical professional. The information I share is from my own personal research and experience. Please do not construe anything I share as medical advice, which should only be obtained from a licensed medical practitioner. Posts: 4881 | From Middlesex County, NJ | Registered: Jul 2006
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Ocean
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 3496
posted
Hi, I asked a person who has Lyme, he has a website www.betterhealthguy.com Scott Furgeson or something like that. He said ED testing is a very good indicator for Lyme. I too was skeptical, my husband also went to the same doc (to see if he could help his diabetes) and he did not test positive for Lyme. He was first diagnosed with Lyme through Electro dermal testing and then had the blood tests done.
I guess I've been afraid to get the blood tests, because I don't want to have Lyme. My mom just told me the other day that she wants me well, she said my whole personality changed after that 3 week 'flu' I got in July 1996 and it did, I became a recluse and went from a straight A student to getting a D in Physics.
Sometimes I wonder what my life would have been like if I hadn't gone down to Charleston, SC with my friend that summer so many years ago.
About 1.5 years after I got sick, as I went to yet another doctor, I finally had a blood test for Lyme, it must have been the one for the antibodies that is only effective in the first 6 weeks because the results were back in 3 days and it was negative and was told at 19 years old I had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and would be that way for the rest of my life! I went home and cried.
Also, anyone else have low WBC's? Every time I've had a blood test in the years since being sick (except initally, my doc thought I had leukemia the WBC was so high), my WBC is either low or borderline low.
Oh, I believe he said it was Babesia the co-infection, I need to call and get my records sent to CA.
janet thomas
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7122
posted
I suggest you go to the Canadian lyme site, which is excellent, and on the home page click on symptoms. Then count how many symptoms you have and it will give you a very good idea if you have Lyme. It's free.
-------------------- I am not a doctor and this is not medical advice but only my personal experience and opinion. Posts: 2001 | From NJ | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Ocean, You just scared me...I was thinking of moving to the carolina's.I live in Ft. Lauderdale and don't like it.
I suppose ticks are everywhere,I was bit in Maine,6 years ago.
Good luck with your health! Believe me,alot of us have anxiety attacks. I have to take a valium just to calm me down. Atheana
Posts: 196 | From from a far | Registered: Jan 2008
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posted
wow, if my anxiety and panic attacks are related to Lyme and go away (hopefully) when I get treatment.
I will, for the first time in 12 years, feel free. Even if it just takes out the panic attacks.
I honestly think my panic attacks came from too much fun in college though. (no need for me to go into too much detail )
I haven't driven on an interstate in 2 years and have barely driven myself out of town in that time frame. It would be nice to drive up the coast some day. Posts: 123 | From Georgia | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I Love Skullcap for aniexty and nervousness..Just discovered the herb..and im thrilled that i did..it works wonders!
Milky oats also!
-------------------- If Your Going Through Hell, Keep Going... Posts: 99 | From Shepherdstown, WV | Registered: Sep 2006
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Skullcap can be made into a tea and you can drink it before bed.
I use to get really bad panic attacks starting with the first week I received a bulls eye rash. I have not had one for a long long time.
My anxiety can get triggered if I get really run down or scared but luckily I have not had much lately. It does seem to improve with treatment or hopefully so.
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I think CD57 posted this once on the subject of anxiety.
"I have also been told by LL-psychiatrist to take GABA throughout the day, and GABA and glycine at night to help with sleep. It really does help. There's also a supplement called phosphitidylserine (sp)? that is an amino acid which dampens down your adrenals, which are likely firing high due to stress/anxiety. This stuff is amazing. It's sold under the name Seriphos"
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Get your cortisol:DHEAS ratio checked.
If anxious, cortisol maybe high and DHEAS low.
This may lead to adrenal exhaustion.
Do you constantly feel like you've just had a near miss car accident?
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
Ask you LLMD if B12 shots might help you and I would take added magnesium anyway and it is even better in the form of shots or IVs.
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