Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good evening,
I decided to go back on meds this week due to some lingering symptoms. I am now 3 days in and am feeling just awful.
Realizing that I must have reached the proper blood levels to do some killing today, I am wondering exactly WHAT is being offed.
I'm only taking Penicillin for now, and I thought it only hit Lyme. But my body is reacting with a big OUCH that feels like more than LD stuff.
splitting headache severe fatigue sweats nausea bruising tremors dizziness creaky and sore joints allergy attack
All of this just hit today, so it must be the meds.
My question is does Penicillin hit other co-infections too?
Thanks in advance, M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
OUCH OUCH...
I am sorry to hear this.
I don't know what it is killing... but with the description you gave...
Could it be you?
I am going to ask...
Did you stop the meds when this started? My bet is no.. but my hope is yes.
Do you think it is a herx? And is the "allergy attack" the same stuff as normal... or could it be to the meds? Just want to be sure.
As for what it is killing... I don't know. Staff? Strep?
Some unknown stuff- that's my guess... and/or Lyme.
Folks in Europe use this drug and have for years for Lyme. It was the drug of choice way back when and isn't used much today.. but I think it works well for me.
After the ouches go away, of course.
It does hit Lyme.. but this is a big time ouch on you... more than normal or you wouldn't be asking... so I'm thinking here.
As you know it is related to Bicillin, which if I remember right..
You had a rough time on before, in the past. A lot of ouches then too.
Since you've taken no meds for a while... could this be kicking the same thing?
I only do 1/2 doses and I get my butt kicked good.... so keep that in mind in your plans.
Most of the abstracts describing herxes focus on syphilis and penicillin. Since Bb is related to syphilis... and this ouch is coming right away like described in the literature... is this the "typical herx" they describe in that literature?
I am wishing on a star that I could be of some help... and that you would feel better. I am.
I'll be up till about midnight my time.. and probably your time too... so if you want some chatter... which is not good for a bad headache I'm sure....
"In contrast, persons who had repeated tick-associated itch were protected from developing Lyme disease. We are confident, therefore, that the people in our study who described repeated episodes of tick-associated itching were experiencing cutaneous hypersensitivity and that this immune reaction
I start to herx within about 1 hour of any abx doseage, and its not in my head.
Ceftin is way better and cheap. Add augmentin or use Co-ampicillin Instead.
Dr Gasser found adding the augmentin (for the clauvic acid in it) to ceftin really helped alot...even helped rochepren, etc.
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Hey Miss Marnie, I absolutely can not understand that link you provided...I did try. BUT you wrote 'YIPPEE' so I am hoping that this is a good thing?
Anything to raise my sorry CD57 number from 17 has to be a good thing, right? Do you have any clue what sort of allergy might have a 9-11 day cycle? I so appreciate your help!
Hi James, That is interesting to know re: Pen. Unfortunately, I am not able to add any other meds right now, but appreciate the info.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
I see you added more...yes please let me have what you are willing to share re: allergies and TBDs.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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lymie tony z
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5130
posted
Having had penicillin a few times and getting first a whole lot of pain and then a whole lot of
feeling like my old self again....
Of course until it was stopped...
I would have to go with what the cup says...
it is a spirochete killer....that's why you feel lousey....
Cheer up....you'll feel better soon....I think I would recommend a metronidazole or flagyl or
tinidazole to pulse with as well so you may crack open some of those cysts it will run away and hide in....
good luck
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Up for more from Mag Marnie!
Thanks for the encouragement Tony...I'm sure I will be just fine very soon.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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merrygirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12041
posted
I just started on oral Penicillin too. What is your dose? I am on 1000mg three times a day.
There is blood work that your doc can do. Its called a Penicillin allergy panel IgE.
I havent herxed on the penicillin yet and it is day 4. I hope it is not coming!!
Good Luck, Melissa
Posts: 3905 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Hi there Melissa,
Actually I am only taking 500mg bid right now. I'm glad I started low. I really don't think I am allergic to the pen, as I have taken it before with no issues, and this reaction was not an allergic reaction, but more herx-ish.
The allergies I mentioned above are my crazy unexplained severe allergies that cycle every couple of weeks. Sorry, I know I didn't make that too clear.
The best of luck to you as well.
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Bruising...vitamin K - lack...up the probiotics
OR
Heparin released when IgE binds to various cells... mast cells.
"It therefore seems possible that high IgE, by ***depressing blood clotting,***
protect
atopics against sudden cardiac arrest."
IgE is the Th2 pathway...allergic response.
IgE is too high in some (RA, HLA-gene type) and too low in OA, if CD4 deficient or if inhibited by PKCD.
Sweats...maybe PGE2/increased estrogen
"Environmental Estrogens Induce Mast Cell Degranulation (spit out histamine) and Enhance IgE-Mediated Release of Allergic Mediators"
********** "Immunoglobulin -Ig E- may provide immunity against Borrelia burgdorferi infection -Lyme disease- in children which lasts throughout adulthood." ***********
"``The induction of HDC (histidine decarboxylase) by the binding of IgE was found to require an
influx of extracellular calcium ions,
which was attenuated by pretreatment with U73122, a phospholipase C inhibitor.
Furthermore, the increase in HDC activity upon sensitization with IgE was completely suppressed by pretreatment of BMMCs (bone marrow-derived mast cells) with
***protein kinase C inhibitors,***''
You know which pathogen has a PKC inhibitor, I bet.
Histamines are chemicals released by cells of the immune system during the inflammatory response, which is one of the body's defenses against infection.
For instance, the inflammatory response helps neutralize bacteria that enter the body when the skin is accidentally cut with a knife.
In addition, the sneezing, runny nose, and itchy eyes of allergies are actually "small-scale" inflammatory responses initiated by allergens such as dust, mold, and pollen.
Histamines play a prominent role in both kinds of reactions.
Histamines are contained within two types of immune cells, basophils and mast cells.
Basophils are free-floating immune cells, while mast cells are fixed in one place.
When basophils and mast cells are activated by other immune cells--such as in response to invasion of the body by bacteria--they release histamines into body tissues.
Once histamines are released into the tissues, they exert a variety of effects.
Histamines dilate blood vessels,
stimulate gland secretion,
and prompt the release of proteins from cells.
These effects, in turn, help the body rid itself of foreign invaders.
The dilation of blood vessels increases the circulation of blood to the injured area, washing away harmful bacteria.
The release of proteins from cells attracts other immune cells to the area, such as macrophages, which engulf and destroy bacterial invaders.
In response to these activities within the body, the injured area becomes red, swollen, and painful. These symptoms of inflammation signal that the body's inflammatory response is activated.
Histamines also play a role in allergic responses. Instead of responding to bacterial or viral invaders, mast cells and basophils
bind to allergens (proteins) and then release histamines and a special kind of antibody called IgE."
"Excessive IgE (often in RA and in HLA gene types):
Abnormal neutrophil chemotaxis due to ***decreased production of interferon gamma*** is thought to cause the disease...(another disease, but very similar).
Regulation of IgE levels through control of B cell differentiation to antibody-secreting plasma cells is thought to involve the "low affinity" receptor, FcεRII or CD23- citation needed.
CD23 may also allow facilitated antigen presentation, an IgE-dependent mechanism whereby B cells expressing CD23 are able to present allergen to (and stimulate) specific T helper cells, causing the perpetuation of a Th2 response,
***one of the hallmarks of which is the production of more antibodies.***"
"Depletion of CD4+ T cells in the mice caused a reduction in their IgE levels."
CD4 T cells are helper cells...they are very important to fight lyme.
"IL-18 induction of IgE: dependence on CD4+ T cells, IL-4 and STAT6"
Omalizumab's ability to inhibit IgE binding to mast cells and basophils may decrease allergic rhinitis symptoms and provide an alternative for refractory patients." (They are re-thinking that in relation to cancer...maybe not good.)
Given fast enough...activated charcoal looks to bind IgE..and help with dangerous peanut allergies too...18kDa protein in peanuts that causes a life-threatening reaction in some.
IL-4 Th2-cells
mast cells
− activates B-cells
− induces Th2 differentiation
− suppresses Th1 differentiation
− induces isotype switch from IgM to IgE
IL-13 Th2-cells − promotes B-cell growth
− inhibits Th1-cells
− induces isotype switch from IgM to IgE
``Since IL-4 is known to down-regulate the pro-inflammatory and possibly harmful effects of prolonged IFN- responses,
the prominent IL-4 response observed in the central nervous system compartment might contribute to the more
benign disease course seen in children with Lyme NB. (NB= neuroborreliosis)''
"This effect could participate in the glucocorticoid (steroids)-induced suppression of IgE-mediated allergic reactions."
"Antigen-specific IgG does block IgE-mediated reactions in vivo by both direct competition and signaling via the inhibitory IgG receptor, FcRIIb."
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Tincup
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5829
posted
Since my toad doesn't like your global... I'll do it this way...
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
I took Penicillin as a child and had severe reactions to it. I was told since then that I was allergic.
At that time I had an undiagnosed illness which they never figured out and has caused relapsing ill health since age 5. Turns out to be lyme disease and co-infections.
My LLMD ran an allergy test. NOT allergic. It likely made me really ill because I was full of spirochetes.
Bottom line, I think you are herxing. Do things to help get rid of the toxins.
Hope you feel better soon.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks Marnie, that is a lot to absorb, but I am trying.
Hi TC, I AM feeling better today. I appreciate you checking up on me.
Hey Terry, I'm so sorry you have been ill for so long. Thanks for sharing your experience with Pen. Yes, I am trying to rest and drink plenty of water.
Thanks again to each of you, M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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