Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
Whelp, I"m in it now . . . I'm seeing ticks on both my cats, like someone threw a handful on one of them . . . we live with open space up our back hill/backyard, so this has always been an issue. But, normally, I might see one, maybe 2, ticks crawling through their fur.
Today, I counted 11 crawling ticks in my one cat. He's semi-wild, so won't let me come near him to grab those ticks off. I was coming undone with the worry--that either me or one of my kids would get brushed up against this one cat, and a crawling tick would come off on our clothing.
So. . . it's off to rehome this kitty. I've lived with the fear/worry for years, trying to think up how to deal with the tick thing with this one cat in particular (my other cat is tame and lets me handle him to remove ticks and treat with Frontline) has never become 100% tame, thus, getting Frontline on him once a month is always a chore, and if he senses me coming at him for anything other than to be petted, he runs.
I live in Northern CA, in the Bay Area, and the weather this fall has been pretty warm, and now humid with rain. I knew it was "tick time" had warned my kids about petting either cat, and now we have come pretty #$%& close to getting rebit with this one cat's tick infestation today. He must have walked thru a nest of them or something.
I"m just sad. A bit ****ed off, and now am trying to capture this cat of mine so I can get him to a new home where ticks are not the issue, day in, day out.
If I could move away from this area, I would, as I am just so damn tired of the tick worry, all the time. It's so wearing. And reading about other long timers on here getting bit again makes me want to run screaming off a cliff.
There's my Saturday night rant. Thanks guys.
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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I don't have cats, but pups who are pretty much homebound. We let them outside several times a week and they go bonkers running around. We haven't found ticks on them yet, but living in tick country (tick hell, as I like to think of it)I am very concerned about what they'll bring into the house.
Sorry that you have to give up your kitty, but I totally understand the worry you are experiencing which makes this a necessity.
Too bad so many beautiful areas of our country are the same ones that are tick-infested. I've been to your neck of the woods, and it's just so pretty.
I can so relate to just wanting to move away. At this point, I'm pretty much ready for a concrete jungle. I'd be happy if I didn't see trees or grass for a long time. Unfortunately, moving isn't in the cards for awhile though, for many reasons. Guess I'll have to start using deet....UGH!
Posts: 214 | From where ticks flourish | Registered: Dec 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Gosh Julie! I'm sorry you have to give up your kitty. Is he picking those ticks up from the open space?
We live in the Bay Area too. My cats are primarily indoor, but one hangs out outside for about 10% of her time. Fortunately neither one roams into grasses and things. Although maybe I'm fooling myself.
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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I am a native San Diego girl, and while there is Lyme there..nothing like here.
It's when I started dating my now boyfriend is when I got infected prior to moving to SF.
Then we moved to Mendocino, Willits to be exact.
I moved to tick country after I was a year in treatment and on IV and treatment for EVERYTHING!!!!!
So I took a leap of faith. My dogs sadly enough live in the garage but have a acre in a half, but when it raining like today I feel guilty..but hell no I do not want any ticks on me or in my home.
We have the property sprayed once a month, wear my Ugg boots if we go to outdoor things along with a hat the WHOLE summer.. I was known for the girl in the hat thing along with all my white dresses and clothes and my ever faithful DEET.
I did get bit, reinfected I don't know. I was on 4 antibiotics so I am not to bummed. We are moving back to SF next year.
I feel the country for sure lended itself to my recovery then living in dismal foggy weather all the time.
By the way..stupid lymie. I was gardening when I got bit. As per my boyfriend I am not allowed to do this anymore. I really picked it up as a new hobbie and loved it. So healing for me.
So I was in the flowerbeds..asking for it! I live in serious deer country. Like 10 Wild Turkey's along with seven deer hung out all August on my lawn. I am getting a bebe gun. They said it's fair game a few months ago for the Turkeys...
Joking.
Are you in SF?? with your cat's??
Posts: 111 | From San Francisco | Registered: Feb 2007
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Borrelia nosodes LM4 or LM6 are THE solution.
My cat lives outside, in the woods, it just comes home from times to times to feed when he would like to change his mice diet to canned food.
I had LITERALLY hundreds of ticks pulled from it in spring and summer every year. It was getting desperate, because the cat was in bad shape too. An average of 5-15 a day.
I even didn't kill the ticks anymore, I just pulled them and added into a jar with alcohol, and disposed them later, because burning them every day was too much work.
Well, he brought maybe 5 ticks this WHOLE year after we started him on these borrelia nosodes. We've been using it for about 2 years, and they prevent ticks that have borrelia to bite him. And us.
Chemicals won't work, as ticks bite the cat anyway with chemicals. They maybe die after, but the cat will still be bitten by the nasty beasts and infect it.
I don't know if the US produces these nosodes so high potencies, but Deseret Biologicals probably know.
Selma
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Julie,
Sorry to hear about that, I had no idea the tick situation was that bad in the Bay area.
It sure sounds like you are doing the right thing to rehome your outdoor cat. Too many of us, including me and friends of mine, have had exposures due to outdoor cats. It can't be easy, but it sounds like the right move.
Out here in the east the farmer's almanac promises a snowy and bitter cold winter. So far you wouldn't know it, we've had warm November nights. But I am hoping that we get socked with a real winter to kill as many ticks as possible!
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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ByronSBell 2007
Unregistered
posted
My vet gave me a spray for my dog and some flee collars. I can let her run through the woods all day long and when she comes back I don't see a single bug on her...
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Geneal
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10375
posted
I've found more ticks on my dogs this week than all summer long.
Dog ticks, deer ticks and even a lone star tick.
I keep advantix on them.
It doesn't keep the ticks from attaching though.
I don't let my dogs in my house, but we are around them all day long.
They are chasing rabbits/squirrels and deer in the woods now.
Plus mice and rats. Impossible to stop without a 4 acre fence
Which we just are not able to afford right now.
I just do the best I can with the dogs.
I heard last week at a support group meeting that someone
Is investigating the possibility of red ants being vectors also.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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Our puppies (small breed) are actually litter trained---they started out on wee wee pads but they chewed them up.
The vet suggested using wood pellets that you'd put in a pot-belly stove. They're really cheap...$5 for a 40 lb bag. At Petsmart and other places, I'm sure, you can find a doggie container for the litter. When the dogs pee, the pellets turn to sawdust. We obviously clean it constantly and change the litter weekly (we have the litter in two areas, which helps too).
This is really ideal for small breeds and saves you from walking them when it's snowing or 10 degrees out or when you're just not feeling well or want to sleep in.
It also helps eliminate tick exposure. If it were up to me, they'd never go out (they tend to run away But hubby likes to get them outside.
Our puppies are maltepoos. Both the maltese and the poodle are smart dogs, so they were trained very quickly. They don't shed either, although they are pretty smelly
Hope that makes you feel better Posts: 214 | From where ticks flourish | Registered: Dec 2007
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Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
Ah, thanks you guys. I didn't think anyone would respond to my post, but here you all are!!!
I have had NO luck today. My semi-wild guy is just too street smart. . . he is hungry, I'm sure of it, but will not enter the live-trap that my neighbor lent me yesterday.
My tame cat, knows the score. He does not get near the live-trap. Of course, he's getting fed 2x per day, and is not hungry, at least not enough to chance the trap!
I thought I could deal with the risk here, with the 2 cats. I had gone through the various scenarios with both cats, in my head, before I made the leap to "keep them". I"m a responsible animal owner/person, and I could not fathom doing what some folks have recommended doing with my one wild cat . . . I have hardened up, though. I'm not feeding this one cat, and he's going to have to start looking to one of my other neighbors for his meals, if he doesn't get trapped by me.
I too have deer wandering my back hillside, and today, counted 22 wild turkeys crossing the upper hill, just pecking away at the ground. Probably eating all those ticks up there! I wish they were guinea hens . . .
I've gone on to Plan C now-which is to put my tame kitty in the garage at night, with the door closed and a litter box, keeping my wild cat outside all night, I hope he gets the "hint" soon, as I've been chasing him out of the immediate backyard off and on all day today. It just hurts my heart so to have to do this, but my kids, and my own, welfare HAVE to come first. And again, I knew in the far reaches of my mind that this might become my reality someday. It's just that I didn't think I'd see it for some reason. I've never seen that many crawling ticks before, I had a slight mental panic attack, and then slapped myself upside the head and dealt.
Lymetoo, I miss having a dog, I can't even tell you, how bad. I've been fortunate in that my neighbors have been more than generous and kind hearted in letting me "borrow" their dogs when I go for walks, I usually have 2-3 different dogs to choose from, depending on which part of my neighborhood I walk in. 2 of these dogs walk beautifully off leash, and one has to be on the leash, but we have a lovely time just as well.
So, my kitty dilemma continues . . .
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
Jens, yes, I'm near S.F., half hour east. Open space is an issue, as we have it everywhere it seems, in this area. I grew up in a suburb of Los Angeles, and ticks just were not a part of the landscape down there. . . up here, well, it's just one short drive from one town to the next, and you're in it.
Before we moved to this part of the East Bay, we had a tract house, and I had 2 dogs. I took them to the regional parks/open space areas for 15 years! I got my one known tick bite walking in Briones . . . but I got it when I went off the trail, hiking in the deep forest.
My dogs had maybe one, maybe 2, ticks on them, in the entire time I had them,but they were mostly black german shepherds, and I was not tick checking them at all, I was oblivious back then. I watched a tick crawl across my foot while houseboating on Shasta Lake up here, but again, did not think anything of it! That of course, was way before lyme hit me.
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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posted
We have an indoor/outdoor cat and he has gotten half a dozen or so ticks under his collar in the past couple weeks. This really freaks me out since he comes in the house and cuddles up with my wife (who also has Lyme).
We treated him with Revolution, which is similar to FrontLine, but it doesn't repel ticks (only fleas). Apparently there is no product that repels ticks for cats.
I'm considering getting some sort of "jacket" that I can treat with Permethrin which he would wear only when he goes out. It seems that the ticks hide under the collar, I assume because he can't groom there. Or maybe I'll just treat the collar itself.
Any ideas for indoor/outdoor cats?
Thanks!
Posts: 31 | From Leesburg, VA | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
Frontline Top Spot for Cats works for us, BUT:
Occasionally, ticks still attach before they die.
Once a month is not often enough. I have to re-apply every three weeks.
And when the fleas are really bad, I may even notice the cats acting up after only 2-1/2 weeks.
Watch to see how your cat handles it, though. I had a young cat whose skin was very irritated by Frontline. (When he got older, he was able to tolerate it just fine.)
-------------------- Grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console; to be understood, as to understand; to be loved, as to love Posts: 61 | From Atlanta, GA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Just Julie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1119
posted
My understanding of Frontline products (I use Frontline Plus, to kill the flea and tick eggs, as the box states) is that they do NOT kill, or repel (keep from attaching) ticks. . . the tick still bites the cat (only talking about cats here), and has to be attached for a minimum of 2 DAYS before the tick dies.
I have field tested this out, too. I have removed a tick that was on my cat under the 2 day time limit, and the tick WAS NOT DEAD YET. I put every tick into a mason jar filled with alcohol, whether it's still crawling on my cats fur, or one that I remove that has been attached.
So, I do know that this is a fact, at least here in California---that Frontline Plus, does not repel, or kill a tick, unless it has been attached to the cat for 2 days. I do not believe that this fact is on the packaging of the product. I did call the 800 number, and this was confirmed to me, though.
There are products for dogs that do repel, I believe the Advantix collar? Not sure, as I do not have dogs, but have read/heard this to be true, just nothing on the market for cats in this area (or I'd have bought it, and our semi wild kitty might just have been able to stay with us) Julie
-------------------- Julie Posts: 1027 | From Northern CA | Registered: May 2001
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
With the best of intentions, parents across this country try to protect their kids from Lyme disease by slathering their children in gallons of tick repellent. But what says tick repellent on the label is usually nothing more than mosquito repellent given a face-lift. Thanks to aggressive marketing by manufacturers, it is difficult to find a tick repellent that doesn't use DEET as its main ingredient.
DEET is an excellent mosquito repellent, but it is a fairly poor tick repellent. The reason we are inundated with so many DEET repellents is because there are several huge corporations that manufacture hundreds of variations of DEET products. Only a few manufacturers use the more effective tick repellent ingredient approved for human use: 0.5 % permethrin.
Permethrin is a synthetic pyrethoid insecticide that is widely used as an insecticide in both agricultural and home applications. There are pros and cons to using either DEET or Permethrin for personal use, but when it comes to efficacy of disabling ticks before they can feed on you: Permethrin wins hands down!
Permethrin is a spray that is used on clothes only! If ingested permethrin is toxic and can cause a variety of neurologic symptoms, and prolonged exposure in rats caused lung cancer. It is also highly toxic to aquatic systems and fish. For this reason care must be given to using pyrethroid insecticides on yards that drain to near by aquatic systems. When permethrin is sprayed on clothing, it becomes odorless and can last for several weeks with a single application. Once it is applied most ticks will curl up and fall off if they make contact with the clothing, and the ticks will eventually die if there is prolonged exposure. Care must be given to all insecticides to ensure that they are as safe and effective as they can be without human and ecological side effects. Permethrin is used in over 100 million applications a year in agriculture and home use. But its use as a tick repellent on clothing is a tiny fraction of the amount used world-wide for insect control. The military tested permethrin on soldiers and published a 67 page report of its efficacy and safety. In these studies soldiers completely saturated their clothes inside and out with permethrin and let them dry and then used DEET on the skin and outside of the clothing.
For domestic use, smaller amounts of spray are quite effective for most day hikers and campers. Permethrin sprays are best applied to clothing outdoors in well ventilated areas, applied directly on the outside of clothing especially in those areas that are most likely to come in contact with ticks including: shoes, socks, pant legs, belt lines, cuffs, collars and hats. For further protection from ticks and mosquitoes, mosquito sprays containing 35% DEET or less can be applied to bare skin. ------------------------------------------------------------ Pros and Cons: DEET needs to be applied regularly and can only work as it is evaporating. Permethrin works for weeks after it has dried on clothing fibers. DEET has a pungent aroma and works best when you can still smell it evaporating Permethrin is odorless when dry and works for weeks. DEET is applied directly to the skin and can be absorbed through the skin. Permethrin is applied to clothing only and has limited contact to the skin. DEET does not kill or disable ticks, and is a poor tick repellent. Permethrin works instantly and is extremely effective. It is the tick repellent of choice by the military. It also kills many other biting insects but is a poor mosquito repellent. DEET can melt synthetic clothes like nylon. Permethrin causes no damage to any known cloth or synthetic fiber. DEET products are easy to find. Permethrin is hard to find and more expensive. DEET also repels fish and is not a good tackle box buddy. Permethrin is directly toxic in small quantities to fish and care should be taken to minimize its exposure to aquatic systems. DEET has been implicated in causing neurological symptoms by absorption through the skin. Permethrin is applied to clothing not the skin, but also is neurotoxic in animal models when ingested. DEET is an excellent mosquito repellent but a very poor tick repellent. Permethrin causes ticks to curl and die on contact. ---------------------------------------------------------- Permethrin containing products that are approved for human use ae manufactured by Coulston labs, and can be found under labels such as Duranon, Permanone, Repel w/permethrin, and Congo Creek Tick Spray. A 0.5 % veterinary permethrin product can be found in most feed stores and horse supply shops as a horse tick repellent. The veterinary products tend to cost about half the price per ounce as the human-use product.
In a field test that the Minnesota Insect-Borne Disease Education Council did in Jay Cook State Park in Northern Minnesota, they found that the permethrin products out performed the DEET containing tick repellents. A walking shoe was sprayed with Duranon 0.5% permethrin and then three weeks later it was tested against its matching mate that was sprayed with Deep Woods Off 35 % DEET. The ticks that made contact with the Duranon shoe immediately rolled up and dropped off. The ticks on the soaking wet DEET saturated shoe continued to crawl unimpaired.
To avoid ticks wear light colored clothing. Tuck your pants into your socks. Tuck your shirt into your pants, and wear a hat. Spray your shoes, socks, belt-line, collar, and hat with a permethrin containing tick repellent. (Ticks like to move upward so tucking clothes in is quite effective). Do a tick check after walking in high-risk areas, and put any clothes that might have live ticks on them into a hot dryer for thirty minutes to kill all insects. Keep your Family Safe ! Do Tick Checks !
To view a document with more information on Permethrin's toxic effects to aquatic systems go to: www.pesticide.org/Permethrin.pdf
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
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