Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
I'd suspect (like everything else) it is different for everyone. Have you asked your LLMD?
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- If you are considering taking iron, rather than iron that really upset my stomach, Stinging Nettle is the very best help that I've found. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
Razzle, no I haven't asked my doctor yet. I just got the results this afternoon. My level is 22 with the above-mentioned range (13-150).
I have been anemic many times before and am having those types of symptoms again. I think it may be from the low Ferritin.
Keebler, thanks for the info!
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Keebler,
Interesting that nettles has helped you with your anemia...it hasn't worked for mine...so now I'm wondering if I have something else unknown going on to cause my anemia (it also didn't respond to IV iron infusions or to procrit (prescription red blood cell stimulant))...one more thing to ask the new LLMD I'm seeing in August...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- It could be the source. Don't recall the dose (though I do know it was very high, as per my ND) but this is the brand of capsules that works so well for me for so many things. Top 2 sites are Oregon based.
Floradix -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Assume you've been assessed for BABESIA. That's classic for causing anemia.
But, yes, there are different kinds and various causes. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
Bacteria feed off of iron so I would not worry about low ferritin levels unless your fingernails do not turn white when you press them, indicating you are anemic and not just tired from the infections.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 34987
posted
I am having low iron due to a female issue, which I have to have an outpatient procedure done for in a few weeks.
I let this issue go these past months, walked into a regular Dr. office in Jan. he took one look at me and pulled my eyes and said: You're anemic! I supplemented with Thorne Ferrasorb, and my regular quality multi daily had 5 mg iron.
Sort of slacked off, now will get the issue fixed, but OBGYN pulled recent CBC, ferritin came back at 12 (!) and she thought this was fine!
I am back to supplementing iron, despite having bio film issue- It can be caused by heavy cycle or in between cycle issues (obvious, I guess)
So I need a procedure, am exhausted, and personally think my 12 is too low, and am supplementing.
Will try and deal with biofilm treatment after stabilized.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
Keebler,
Coinfections negative through Fry Labs, but we all know that's not proof that I don't have any coinfections. Symptoms are predominantly Bart & Lyme, no night sweats, but yes, it is possible I have Babs being masked by the Bart/Lyme. However, dowsing (muscle testing) shows I have Bart, Lyme, and Anaplasma...
Yes, I was using Eclectic Institute nettles but had difficulty with the odor from the capsules. So I switched to bulk organic nettles from MountainRoseHerbs.com (no financial interest, just a satisfied customer) and am much, much happier with the freshness and lack of stinky capsules...
Probably I smell/taste the mag. stearate lubricants many companies use on their capsule machines, even though I only take the contents that are inside and throw out the capsule...
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
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posted
Mine was 24, which they considered low. I felt very anemic with it this level. It was 60 last time it was tested and my gyno still considered that to be a bit lower than she'd like to see it, but I have a lot more energy than I did when it was low.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Hubby recently discussed this issue with his LLMD. In their opinion the ferritin needs to be at least 60 or maybe it was 100 (need to find my notes) to prevent neuro problems. One specific problem that the LLMD mentioned that could be caused by a low ferritin level ( think hubby was at 30) is restlessness -- for example bouncing your leg up and down. There is somewhat of a proven connection between restless leg syndrome and low iron levels.
Hubby's LLMD is of the same opinion as I am -- you can't starve any pathogens by diet or limiting nutrients -- the pathogen will rob whatever is available and the patient will be the one to suffer. As long as you are treating then supplementing with iron or B12 or folic acid or CoQ10 or magnesium or healthy fats should be ok per hubby's LLMD.
Yes, I know there are other docs who disagree -- but limiting B12 has never cured anyone with tickborne diseases that I know of. There is still at least one well known LLMD who does not believe in using that supplement.
Time will tell -- but these diet and nutritional fads come and go.
This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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surprise
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Gosh, we must have used a different rating system (they have their own lab on premises)
Otherwise, how could 12 be okay?! This is a good doc.
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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Marnie
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posted
Ferritin...glad you asked.
Okay...you asked for it ;-)
The release of ***iron***by HO-1 results in
increased synthesis of ferritin,
which has the potential to limit the contribution of the labile iron pool to oxidative reactions.
Th1 response -> more NO production -> induction of HO-1 (***more slowly in HeLa cells***= cancer cells that won't die = ***less stability of HO-1 mRNA)*** and HO-1 -> converts heme to BV (biliverdin Ixa) Fe2+, and CO. Bb uses Fe2+ for its LuxS gene for quorum sensing.
Repeating Fe2+ is used by Bb for quorum sensing.
Stop the Th1 response!!!
To clear Bb, we really really need a Th2 response, NOT a Th1/Th17 response because Th2 deals with TOXINS.
Bb picks up a dangerous toxin in the tick's saliva. It is called P8 and it *inhibits* MBL = mannose binding lectin and the lectin pathway.
The lectin pathway is critical to eliminate Bb. Bb inhibits that pathway.
The SALP 15 protein contains mannose and galactose, but the addition of P8 prevents mannose (a sugar) from binding to lectin (a protein).
Bb needs mannose...absolutely. It not only brings it along (via the tick's SALP 15 protein), but it inhibits mannose from binding to a protein (MBL = mannose binding lectin) which shuts off the lectin pathway.
Which IS the ONLY pathway absolutely necessary to eliminate Bb.
P.S. Many pathogens use iron to replicate. Bb has a gene called LuxS that utilizes Fe2+ (one form of iron)for "quorum sensing" i.e., to signal his relatives. Pathogens "talk" to each other chemically.
[ 06-29-2012, 07:04 AM: Message edited by: Marnie ]
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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susank
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22150
posted
My Ferritin is 38 (13-150).
My RBC count is low.
My Hemaglobin and Hematocrit are in normal range - but barely - low end - and I have been told I am not anemic.
Geez.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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Lymeorsomething
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posted
70-90 optimal. Guys should be upwards of 125ish but not much more than that...
Mean for men is usually in the 110s to 120s so when its south of 50 and you're a guy...that's not good.
Of course, raising it can be very hard if one is battling infection/s and/or thyroid problems.
Tea will block iron absorption whereas vitamin C will aid it.
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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sammy
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posted
My hematologist told me that it should ideally be at least 60-80 for women.
I've been getting IV iron infusion for the past several weeks. I don't think that they are working though My RBC are still only 3.0 (norm 4.00-6.00), HGB is 8.9 (12.0-18.0), this test was done today before the infusion. Disappointing
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by surprise: Gosh, we must have used a different rating system (they have their own lab on premises)
Otherwise, how could 12 be okay?! This is a good doc.
He's probably going by the range the test gives rather than looking at the optimal range. If the lowest acceptable number is 13, then 12 doesn't seem so low.
In my testing the lowest acceptable number was also 13, but I felt bad when mine was 24 ... it was not optimal. My PCP who did the original test didn't even mention that 24 was low, I knew from my own research.
My gyno, on the other hand, is more up to date on things like this. She even routinely tests everyone for things like vitamin D levels. She would like to see mine higher than it is now at 60. She wanted me to have a uterine ablation because mine is caused by gyno issues, but I said no, I've been dealing with it since I was a teenager, I can handle a few more years.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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surprise
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posted
Sixgoofykids, thank you---
I actually have a polyp discovered believed to be the cause of mine, and will get it taken care of in a few weeks. Found through ultrasound- read common for women 40-50.
I get CBC's pulled all the time with LLMD, too, constant complaint of fatigue, nobody said anything-- guess because my red blood cell and white blood cells look okay.
The regular Dr. I saw in January who dx'd me anemic by looking at me actually wrote a script for iron- But I hate constipation, (have supps to deal w/ that) but I didn't take it.
However, after this thread and with the knowledge shared, I am taking this issue much more seriously (getting my iron back up)
Yes, I eat iron enriched foods, dark green, every day-
-------------------- Lyme positive PCR blood, and positive Bartonella henselae Igenex, 2011. low positive Fry biofilm test, 2012. Update 7/16- After extensive treatments, doing okay! Posts: 2518 | From USA | Registered: Nov 2011
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posted
I eat a lot of iron rich foods (buffalo has twice the iron as beef), but still have to supplement. Good you found the cause ... that's IMPORTANT!!
I take Blood Builder. It's not as constipating as some supps because it's made from food sources.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
It is important that you all know that while Bb (unlike other pathogens)
does not use iron for replication,
but
uses iron (Fe2+) for "quorum sensing"
i.e., communication with other Bb's to tell each other if conditions are good or bad...if there is enough "food" available - glucose and amino acids primarily. Can they remain as spriochetes or do they have to go to a cyst form.
Quorum sensing is involved with biofilms which very recently have been attributed to the level of NO..nitric oxide:
April, 2012:
Nitric Oxide Modulates Bacterial Biofilm Formation through a Multicomponent Cyclic-di-GMP Signaling Network
That IS the way Bb is working!!! Absolutely.
Posts: 9424 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Sammi
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posted
Thanks to everyone for your great responses!
I believe my level is way too low, and I am feeling it. I agree that when we are deficient in something, it needs to be supplemented.
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
Learn from other who had/have lyme:
My family doctor and I now thought I was suffering from the after-effects of the iron deficiency and of a bronchitis that I developed in April 1997.
Escalating my iron intake gave some improvement in vitality and the RLS, but did nothing for the muscle wasting, malaise, and painful fibromyalgia-like symptoms, which were increasing daily. My immune system barely seemed to be working.
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My RBC are still only 3.0 (norm 4.00-6.00), HGB is 8.9 (12.0-18.0), this test was done today before the infusion. Disappointing
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