METALLlC BLUE
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Here are the medications I'm on. The first list I just started. Blood levels were taken yesterday afternoon 08-28-08 in the afternoon. A few drugs were just started, but I'm concerned that they couldn't have impacted the liver so quickly. I will list everything.
Test taken Thursday afternoon August 28th
There were three things raised, two in the warning territory.
ALT 296 (Reference Range Max 41) AST 109 (Reference Range Max 38) Total Billirubin 1.2 (Reference Range Max 1.0)
My ALT was 7 times the normal range. My AST was about 3 times the normal range.
Meds I started the day before testing 8-27, and the day of testing 8-28:
The Minocycline was started 08-27-08, 100mg Nutribiotic GSE was started 08-27-08, 3 drops Rifampin was started 08-28-08, 300mg morning Amantadine was started 08-28-08] 100mg morning Dr. Zhang HH was started 08-28-08] 1 cap x 3 Dr. Zhang Coptis was started 08-28-08] x cap x 3
GSE 3 dp Amantadine 100mg x 2 Minocycline 100mg x 1 Rifampin 300mg x 2 Dr. Zhang HH 1 cap x 3 Dr. Zhang Coptis 1 cap x 3 Glycine 500mg x 1
Meds I've been on for 3 years
Pentasa 1gm x 2 Bupropion 200mg x 1 Lamictal 150mg x 2 Ativan 2mg x 1 Nexium 40mg x 1
Herbs & Supplements started 1 month ago
Dr. Zhang's Artemesia 1 capsule x 3 NSI ALA 1 capsule x 1 Allergy Research NAC 1 capsule x 1 ALIVE Multivitamin 1 tablet x 1
Some of these we can totally wipe out as causing problems. Which ones? I'm not sure, but the Artemesia is the only thing I know of that can cause toxicity, but it's so rare.
I'm going to talk to Dr. Zhang, as I have a consult with him. Does anyone have any suggestions?
[ 29. August 2008, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: METALLlC BLUE ]
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
When my daughter had liver problems she was told to take milk thistle and it usually helped just by itself. A couple of times it wasn't enough and we added dandelion and beet supplements and they always helped. You are taking so much, you probably don't want to add any thing else, but I know those help.
I am pretty sure the ativan is safe--I think it travels on a different pathway and doesn't impact the liver (or maybe not as much). You might check out the nexium and see if it increases the effects of your other meds. Alot of stomach meds will raise levels of other meds and get you into trouble. If that is the culprit, you will need to take it separate.
I am not sure I addressed what you were asking, but those were the things that struck me when I read your post.
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TerryK
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Metallic, Sorry to hear about your elevated liver enzymes.
Everytime I've tried to use Artemisinin my liver enzymes would go way up. The first brand was allergy research and my SGPT was over 500!
I then went off everything that was processed through the liver that I could do without via LLMD's instructions and they quickly went down.
Then we tried Zhangs Artemesia and they started to climb again.:-(
We could not figure out why the liver was so affected by artemesia but later learned that I likely had a big parasite infection (worms ugh!)
Just guessing and I haven't discussed this with my LLMD but I think that I was heavily infested with worms based on the reaction I had to treatment for worms. I suspect this is why my liver enzymes went up everytime I used artemesia.
My liver enzymes are completly normal now even while on some hefty abx for lyme and bartonella and meds to hold babs at bay.
I would go off everything, including fat soluble vitamins until you get the liver enzymes down. Then see if you can determine if it is the art.
If nothing else, you might consider that you have worms. My LLMD ran a diagnos-techs test and antibodies to round worms was positive. Doesn't tell one if it is a current infection or not but I'm certain based on my response to worm meds that I had an infection.
I was treated for parasites 2X's and both times my liver felt swollen. The first time it felt so swollen that I could hardly walk.
Edited to add: Because of the problems that I had with such high liver enzymes, my LLMD requires that I have the liver enzymes tested every 3 weeks.
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I spoke to Dr. Z on the phone, and told him that I was using his protocol. He told me that what was happening was likely a matter of medication, that the antibiotics were the probable source.
He told me my CD57 of 85 was good for a Lyme patient seeing as I feel bad, but that it would be wise to continue the protocol using Artemesia, Coptis, and HH. I asked if I should do Allicin, but he said it would not be optimal for my position, that Coptis has beneficial effects on the liver, and I would do much better on that ground.
Dr. Z also told me that the Multivitamin wouldn't cause the problem, since it's a whole-food vitamin and I'm not taking much of it. I'm only using 1/3rd to 2/3rd a normal dose, which is 3 tablets per day of Nature's Way Alive.
Dr. Z told me to get off all antibiotics, the Minocycline, Amantadine, and Rifampin. We both concluded the combination was likely the problem and that I was on too many things at once, and the body can't process it.
He said the baseline from a year ago is useful, that my AST of 25 and BILI of .5 were quite fine, and that the meds I was on during that time aren't likely a problem contributing to my current situation, which is acute heptatis.
He told me to add antibiotics back in, one at a time, and get tested every 2 weeks to monitor levels. He told me that should tell me which one is causing the problem.
He did say that a short duration of only one capsule or two capsules of Rifampin mixed with the Minocycline and Amantadine could cause a severe acute hepatitis.
He recommended I use HepaFormula #2 to get the inflammation and enzymes down. The levels should go down alone too, but if I wanted, he mentioned to try this twice during the conversation.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
CD57
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In my experience it was artemesinin that elevated my liver enzymes. But you are on a lot of stuff.
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METALLlC BLUE
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I came off everything except the bare essentials, no supplements or herbs:
Bupropion 200mg x 1 Ativan 2mg x 1 Pentasa 1g x 2 Lamictal 150 x 2
I was told by the pharmacy, my primary, and Dr. Z that these would be ok, that it was probably the Rifampin. However, given there have been reports of Artemesia causing the elevation too, I have stopped the herbs as well. I believe the supplements are safe: ALA, NAC, Multivitamin, Zinc, Glycine.
I'm not using them, but I'll add them back in after I get the levels normalized.
Which medication should I begin with first, when I go to figure out which one is causing the problem? Minocycline? I can't do Rifampin first, based on reports of resistance. I could probably add everything else in, and add Rifampin last, since I think that's the main cause.
If it's not the Rifampin, and turns out to be the Artemesia, I'll know because of adding that one in by itself.
I think it's also safe to assume the Coptis and HH aren't causing an elevation. Has anyone heard of anyone seeing increased levels with either one of those? I haven't at this time.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Sorry to read about your problems as I know you researched your protocol thoroughly before starting. One piece of the puzzle seems to be missing from your bloodwork.
Total Bilirubin is important, but the breakdown between Indirect and Direct bilirubin is more useful. If Direct Bilirubin is elevated then you probably have gallstones or biliary sludge.
If Indirect Bilirubin is elevated then the cause is probably either anemia or a dieoff of red blood cells. The lab manual I have lists Malaria as a cause of possible elevated Indirect Bilirubin.
I would suggest adding either milk thistle or schisandra (think this is in Zhang's formula but probably cheaper elsewhere). Both of these herbs are liver protective.
Hubby has been fighting with elevated Bilirubin for about a month now -- have gotten the vomiting stopped and the Babesia attacks have slowed to every 3 or 4 days now.
The sweats started when he increased Rifampin from 300 to 425 mg daily. We assumed he was killing off Bartonella and that was releasing the Babesia or the Babesia was multiplying because we weren't hitting it hard enough.
An increase from 1 to 2 Alinia initially stopped the sweats and then he started having much more severe Babesia attacks -- nausea, sweating, tremors, seizure-like spells with weakness and dizziness.
I went to the health food store and got some additional herbs to help flush out his gallbladder. I make him tea with burdock root, yellow dock root and dandelion root and a few other things. He also takes liquid tinctures which include Oregon Grape Root and powdered Dan Shen.
Hubby has major problems with nausea and any time his Bilirubin is elevated this symptom becomes much worse. I also make hubby "slime tea" for his stomach -- this has slippery elm powder, powdered marshmallow root, licorice root powder and ground flaxseed.
The herbs seem to help him more than anything else he has tried. Don't think he could tolerate his meds without the herbs.
Since increasing the Alinia hubby has one other strange bloodwork result -- his AST is actually low -- less than 5. My lab manual listed Beriberi (thiamin deficiency) as a possible cause, but it is starting to look more like ketoacidosis which I don't know what to do about yet -- he is not diabetic). He has been losing weight again as he is not digesting fats well due to the elevated Bilirubin.
Anyway, I would definitely suggest adding in the meds one at a time and waiting a week or at least 4 or 5 days in between each change.
Good luck and let us know how things are working out. Hubby is repeating his bloodwork next week and I am keeping my fingers crossed that the Bilirubin will be at least improved if not back to normal yet.
Bea Seibert
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TerryK
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So they actually said one dose of rifampin could cause your liver enzymes to increase this much and within just a few hours?
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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Terry, They all said it was possible. They didn't say it was the cause of my elevated numbers though. I'm really confused. That seems too far fetched to me in this case. I think it's gotta be the Artemesia or something.
I just don't know, and I won't know until I begin adding one thing at a time back in.
Also, I probably have the rest of those numbers for the Bilirubin, but I have to speak to my GP Tuesday, and I have to get additional blood work. Thanks for the notes on the die-off response. It's possible that could be happening. I did see an increase in night sweats. I wasn't sure if I should attribute it to treating the Babesia though since all I'd changed in my routine was adding Artemesia. I didn't know if Zhang's formula alone would work.
When I wrote him a letter a week ago, he in-fact did tell me that his formula is a stand-alone treatment, if the person only wants to use that. He said it will work well.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
One other possible test for the liver is the GGT -- this will show if you have a fatty liver.
Phosphatidylcholine is another good liver support. Hubby has used 1 or 2 tablespoons of liquid Phoschol from Dr PK when we can afford it. He usually uses this for a month or two and then we take a month or two off depending on finances.
IV phosphatidylcholine (the PK protocol) lowered his GGT to normal several years ago and it has remained normal ever since.
Regular lecithin from the health food store could be helpful although not nearly as concentrated a formula. Or simply eat egg yolks -- only the yolks -- not the whites -- up to 3 a day. Phosphatidylcholine is needed by both the liver and brain.
Don't know if you also had a urine analysis done as well as the bloodwork. RBC in the urine would also indicate Babesia dieoff -- this shows up from time to time with hubby.
Bea Seibert
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TerryK
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Well Mike, I'm not a doctor so perhaps they are correct but that seems like a lot of damage and so fast.
If it's possible then I hope you add the rifampin in exactly as you did when you got the test that showed elevated liver enzymes.
The reason I would do it that way is because *IF* rifampin caused your liver enzymes to raise so much and so fast, you do not want to take a chance of damage to your liver by taking it for more than one dose.
Terry
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Zhangs Hepa F.no2 brought my son's very high elevated liver enzymes down to normal. Hope this helps
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METALLlC BLUE
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Thanks for the additional notes. Dr. Zhang did recommend the Hepa Formula 2. Though he said none of the herbs would cause this reaction. However, he didn't say the Babesia would cause it, because we never talked about Babesia.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TerryK
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When my liver enzymes became so elevated, I asked my LLMD if perhaps I had so much babesia in the liver that the die off was affecting the liver and he said he didn't think that was the case.
I didn't ask if babs die off in general would be causing the liver enzymes to be so elevated. I was on both art and mepron at the time. I continued on mepron for months with no liver problems.
When my liver enzymes went whacko, I had testing that revealed a fatty liver. I had been on lipotropic agents for years including phostidylcholine.
Please let us know when you determine the cause of the problem.
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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I spoke to Dr. Zhang twice. Here are the notes from the two phone calls.
2:17 PM 8/29/2008 - Calling Dr. Zhang @ 212-573-9584. Hepa Formula 2. He told me I had pretty acute Hepatitis. Dr. Zhang told me that 85 on the CD57 was pretty good for Chronic Lyme Disease, and I told him I felt so run down. I told him I had been sick for 22 years, bitten around age 9, and now I'm 30. He told me that I need to continue with the herbs, and avoid the antibiotics until I get the Liver Enzymes under control. He told me the Coptis was the better choice over the Allicin for the liver and it should help. He told me I was taking too many things, and to back off everything and gradually incorporate them. I told him my baseline numbers with Quest from a year ago, AST 25, max range 60, and Bili of .5. I told him that I had been on Bupropion 200mg x 1, Tetracycline, Ativan, Pentasa, and Lamictal. He said those aren't a problem. When I asked him about the NAC, ALA, or Glycine, he told me he was unsure about their contribution to this problem, that it was hard to say, so he suggested I stop until I get the liver under control. He told me that the herbs I've chosen should in-fact reverse much of the problem, especially if I add Hepa Formula 2.
I responded further on his messageboard yesterday evening:
Dr. Zhang. Given I don't know which supplement or medication caused the elevated liver Enzymes (We think it's the antibiotics, right?) -- I'm receiving reports from patients suggesting that Babesia die-off caused by the Artemesia could be the source of the elevated ALT and AST. I was never formally diagnosed with Babesia, it was a hunch. Night sweats increased during Artemesia treatment. There were three things raised on my test, as we discussed. ALT 296 (Reference Range Max 41) AST 109 (Reference Range Max 38) Total Billirubin 1.2 (Reference Range Max 1.0) My ALT was 7 times the normal range. My AST was about 3 times the normal range. Meds I started the day before testing 8-27, and the day of testing 8-28: The Minocycline was started 08-27-08, 100mg Nutribiotic GSE was started 08-27-08, 3 drops Rifampin was started 08-28-08, 300mg morning Amantadine was started 08-28-08] 100mg morning Dr. Zhang HH was started 08-28-08] 1 cap x 3 Dr. Zhang Coptis was started 08-28-08] x cap x 3 2 Mino 100mg capsules before testing. 1 300mg Rifampin capsule, 6 drops of GSE 6 Coptis Capsules 6 HH Capsules 1 Glycine The only new thing I'd added to my routine the month prior to the test was Zhang Artemesia. I was only on Bactrim for 10 days 40 days prior. It just doesn't make sense that the numbers would rise so high in less than 24 hours with only two 100mg doses of Minocycline, one single 300mg dose of Rifampin and 100mg Amantadine. I discontinued the entire routine until Tuesday, including the herbs so my GP can retest my numbers without any confusion, then I'll add one thing at a time back in. Now I'm only on: Lamictal 150mg x 2 Bupropion 200mg x 1 Pentasa 1gm x 2 Ativan 2mg x 1 (bedtime) I'll purchase Hepaformula 2 if I don't see the numbers go down on Tuesday's testing. My GP is wondering what tests she should run besides a Hepatits Panel and Hepatic Panel. I've been on treatment 6 years and have never seen abnormal numbers even after heavy Vancomycin IV treatment, Bactrim and Levaquin.
Dr. Zhang told me to give him a call in regards to this message. The call note is below:
11:57 AM 9/1/2008 - Calling Dr. Zhang 212-573-9584. I told Dr. Zhang that other patients were seeing increased liver enzymes while using Artemesia. I told him, they used it, the numbers went up, when they discontinued, the numbers went down, and when they went to use it again, the numbers increased again. Dr. Zhang said that as red blood cells die (When treating parasites like Babesia), Billirubin is released or converted, thus increasing the numbers. This can cause elevated numbers, which need to be carefully handled, usually using Hepaformula 2, which is specifically designed to repair the liver and protect it, thus decreasing the enzyme numbers. The Bactrim was not resolved in terms of it's potential to increase numbers, but the Rifampin, Minocycline and Amantadine, even one single dose -- one or all combined, could cause an allergic reaction, or sensitivity reaction, very rapidly causing the numbers to increase, thus seeing what we've seen here.
He felt it was very reasonable to retest all the numbers for the liver tomorrow, and to call him to find out whether to add Hepaformula 2. He expects the numbers to go down since I'm on nothing. He asked me if I had any changes in urine, liver discomfort/changes, feces changes in color -- all of which I said no. I've had no symptoms that I've noticed. He told me my numbers were excessive, and that the liver cells are being damaged, but it should change. He said he works with a lot of Hep C patients, and they see numbers decrease with it. He told me that Artemesia itself is not toxic until you start reaching 20 times the number dose.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TerryK
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Thanks for recounting your conversations with Dr. Z. As far as tests, I had a liver scan and that is how they determined that I had a fatty liver. I'm not sure what else they were looking for.
You mentioned sweating with artemesia. I had the same reaction but don't know if it was the babs or worms. Worms do cause night sweats from what I've read.
It's amazing that you didn't have symptoms from such high liver enzymes. I feel very ill when mine are elevated, even when they aren't that high. Perhaps that does mean that it happened very quickly and you hadn't noticed the symptoms because they hadn't manifested yet?
I'll be interested to see what you figure out about this.
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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Here are some numbers run on the 28th when the original Hepatic Panel was run. Maybe useful, but probably not.
The only thing that seems slightly unusual is that for every test I get, my Esophils and Basophils are constantly bottom of the barrel, even if they're within range.
My Monycytes were slightly outside the range of 8.3 (Range 2-8)
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
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Alright, so I received a message back from my doctor this morning. We're going to retest this coming Monday before beginning again. My doctor asked me which medication I'd like to start over with again. My choices are:
Rifampin Minocycline Artemesia Amantadine
I think it's safe to assume, that the drop was over half or more in the numbers in only 4 days, thus eliminating Bactrim as a cause, which was taken 40 days ago. Anyone disagree?
Which should I start over with?
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TerryK
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Good news that they dropped so fast. Mine dropped fast too once I got off of everything.
Probably not bactrim for this bout of elevated enzymes but without testing during your time on bactrim, I don't think you can assume that it does not increase your enzymes. I have no idea how often you have your enzymes tested so perhpas you had them tested during that time and they were fine?
If Rifampin is the most likely to have increased your enzymes according to the doctors, and in one dose, I wouldn't take that until right before you have your enzymes tested. Maybe a few doses at most. I wouldn't want to see any damage to your liver.
Personally, I would concentrate on the rifampin first. Once you know for certain on the rifampin, then move on to artemesia.
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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Terry, I think the Rifampin is the next likely one. I talked to my primary, and we agreed on retesting to establish a normal Enzyme Hepatic panel this coming Monday [09-08-08], and then I told her we should consider using the Rifampin Wednesday Morning att 300mg and 300mg in the evening, repeat Thursday, and test again on Friday with another Hepatic Panel.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
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Alright, so I retested using Rifampin. Not only is it not the Rifampin, but my enzymes dropped even lower into the normal range.
Neither my blood counts or Liver are affected. That leaves only three possible candidates. Minocycline, Amantadine, and Zhang Artemesia.
What direction do I go now? I'm thinking it would be wise to use the Amantadine, since it won't affect the infection in any way. What are your thoughts?
These are the results while on the Rifampin for a couple days.
BILIRUBIN,TOTAL 0.9 MG/DL (0-1.0) BILIRUBIN, DIRECT 0.3 MG/DL (0-0.3) INDIRECT BILIRUBIN 0.6 MG/DL (0.0-0.7) ALBUMIN 4.3 GM/DL (3.4-4.8) AST 22 U/L (0-38) ALT 36 U/L (0-41) ALK PHOS 97 U/L (40-129) TOTAL PROTEIN 7.1 GM/DL (6.2-8.2)
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
My enzymes went up too but I do also have fatty liver but through the elimination process I found at for me anyhow it was the Mino. I stopped and for about six weeks and when I went back for the tests everything was back to normal.
I'm still not taking the Mino but will start that up again at the end of October.
Steve
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METALLlC BLUE
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Dr Zhang responded and said:
"Hi Michael, Coptis, HH nor Nutribiotics Grapefruit Seed Extract should cause liver enzyme elevation. Amantadine or Minocycline are much more likely to be possible causes. If you need to speak with me, please call."
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
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Update: Blood testing from [09-19-08] for Hepatic Panel and Blood counts did not elevate or decline with the use of Amantadine. The next medication on the list is Minocycline. I'll retest Tuesday to see if that has led to the elevation.
Dr. Zhang's Artemesia is the final test. Otherwise, it is assumed that a combination of the treatment led to the elevation. I will add one medication on top of another piece by piece, if that is the case, to see at which point levels change.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
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Ok, results are back now. Here is what I sent Dr. Zhang this morning.
This all began when I contacted you regarding the ALT, AST, and Bilirubin. Numbers were 7 times normal for the ALT and 3 times normal for AST, with Total Bili at 1.2.
The original treatments that could have been the cause were Bactrim, Rifampin, Minocycline, and Amantadine, and the Zhang Artemesia, given I'd only used them within the time frame of the increase in numbers.
I went through every medication individually and had a complete blood count and Hepatic panel done. Rifampin, Bactrim, Minocycline, and Amantadine were all normal. None of my other medications caused an increase in numbers either, including Ativan, Bupropion, Lamictal, and Pentasa.
My present numbers are: AST 24, ALT 32, Total Bili 0.2
The Nutribiotics GSE, Allergy Research NAC, NSI ALA, Nature's Way ALIVE Multivitamin, NSI Glycine would not cause an increase if taken at appropriate dose, which they were. The Coptis and HH were only taken for two days.
That leaves us with only one Possibility Dr. Zhang, Zhang Artemesia. I took it as prescribed, 1 capsule x 3. I took it for 30 days without interruption.
I suppose it's possible that combining the other drugs together could cause elevated enzymes, even if each single drug alone doesn't, but it seems unlikely.
What does everyone think?
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TerryK
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Thanks for keeping us informed.
I don't know enough about everything you are taking and how the combination might cause an elevation in liver enzymes to make an intelligent comment on the combination being the culprit.
Seems like you've done the testing very close to the time that you introduced each possible culprit. It might take more than a few days for your liver enzymes to become elevated.
I hope you will start the art and get liver enzymes after a week or so to see if that is the culprit. If I had to guess, my money is on the art.
If you determine that it is the art, please consider parasites (worms) as a possible reason. You might try a trial of an anti-parasitic to see if you have a response. I would go for prescription if possible.
I am not a doctor. I say this based on my personal experience.
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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quote: Seems like you've done the testing very close to the time that you introduced each possible culprit. It might take more than a few days for your liver enzymes to become elevated.
I started all the drugs together at once, and I only used them for 2 days, therefore the drug(s) responsible should have effectively raised the Liver Enzymes again, in the same time frame, if one was the culprit.
The Artemesia had been used for a month prior to testing the Liver Enzymes. All other drugs were used prior, and testing had never indicated a problem, so they were ruled out.
quote: I hope you will start the art and get liver enzymes after a week or so to see if that is the culprit. If I had to guess, my money is on the art.
If you determine that it is the art, please consider parasites (worms) as a possible reason. You might try a trial of an anti-parasitic to see if you have a response. I would go for prescription if possible.
I am not a doctor. I say this based on my personal experience.
Terry
I can consider starting the Artemesia, but that one I would need to give a longer time period to evaluate whether it raised Liver Enzyme levels, perhaps a week or two as you noted.
I will think it over and get back to you.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TerryK
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quote:I started all the drugs together at once, and I only used them for 2 days, therefore the drug(s) responsible should have effectively raised the Liver Enzymes again, in the same time frame, if one was the culprit.
I should have gone back and re-read your time-line. Thanks for clearing that up, makes perfect sense that you proceeded the way you did.
I'll be interestesd to see what happens with the art.
Great news that your liver enzymes are down and you can at least proceed with most of your treatment.
Terry
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METALLlC BLUE
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An additional update: I have tested Dr. Zhang's HH and Dr. Zhang's Coptis since my last post. Blood work was normal, enzymes included.
The last thing on the list that I have not tested is the Dr Zhang's Artemesia. I'll test that next.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
Was wondering how you were doing. Thanks for the update. Looks like you are down to one final possibility or it was the combination of everything.
Hope you have your answer soon.
Bea Seibert
Posts: 7306 | From Martinsville,VA,USA | Registered: Oct 2004
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Mike - In another thread you said that Rifampin caused your elevated liver enzyme.
In this thread you said: "Alright, so I retested using Rifampin. Not only is it not the Rifampin, but my enzymes dropped even lower into the normal range"
Since the liver enzymes were intially elevated after only 1 dose of rifampin, wouldn't the testing that you did be conclusive as far as rifampin NOT causing the problem?
I thought all that you had left to test was artemesia?
Can you please describe how you figured out it was rifampin?
Thanks, I really appreciate it. It's really kind of scary to think that one dose of rifampin could cause liver enzymes to go up so I really want to understand this since I may end up on rifampin.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
The Rifampin, was the one that caused the most side effects and the one that when decreased suddenly the numbers began to deacease as I increased things.
All my other medications once up to full speed caused no abnormal liver enzymes together. The only one left in the ring that I had tried individual was Rifampin which came back normal.
However, add the Rifampin onto of whatever else I was taking, and that's how I knew it was the Rifampin.
It was probably "camel broke the back" type of situation. A lot of medications at once, and adding a drug like Rifampin onto caused my liver to crumple.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Also I know a lot more now than I did when I posted this.
I now know not only do I have Chronic Lyme Disease, but that I also have:
Bartonella, Babesia
And at one time I was exposed to Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Mycoplasma Pneumonia, and Chy Pneumonia, as well as candida infection and mold exposure.
I also have an EBV infection that is partially active.
So, my body has been at war for a long time. I didn't know all of this. I was treating under assumptions. They were good assumptions, but now I have a lot more data and I will be getting even more aggressive.
I did manage to build the Minocycline up again. I gave it another shot. I'm up to 150mg per day, and heading to 200.
I'm on Zithromax full dose Plaquenil full dose Mepron full dose.
Then I'll begin adding the new drugs next week after I see my LLMD. I'll likely be prescribed Bicillin Shots, perhaps Ceftin, Diflucan, a number of other things. I also have to start a Valtrex prescription.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Thanks for responding Mike.
So it sounds like you determined that just one dose of rifampin along with all the other stuff you were on is what caused your increased liver enzymes?
Just curious, have you been on art since then for any period of time (like a month or greater) with no increase in your liver enzymes?
Glad to hear that you uncovered factors that can help you get well.
I've heard that bicillin can be a problem for anyone with mold exposure but I suppose it depends on the person and if you were able to remove yourself from the exposure.
I'm on valtrex, it has been very helpful. I read some info from Dr. K. that taking it before bedtime can help with sleep. He's removed some of his detailed info so I"m not sure I can find his comments about that but if you want it, I'll see if I can find it.
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