Topic: Hepatic Encephalopathy or Porphyria on Diflucan?
adamm
Unregistered
posted
My reasoning ability's gone down the tubes since I started this drug, and I was wondering what the chances were that this drug could have induced liver dysfunction that had this as its only symptom? I'm particularly concerned be the fact that it's actually been worse since I started back on Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Ginko, Green Tea, and B12 a couple of days ago. Does the drug tie up the CYP450 pathway too heavily for such supplementation to be safe?
This sucks--my memory's actually not too terrible, but I've simply become unable to put 2 and 2 together.
Well, whatever the case may be, I think I'll try to call my LLMD tomorrow and see about switching game plans...
posted
Adamm, I'm sorry your cognitive function is not improving on the diflucan.
Often when we kill yeast with the diflucan it releases toxins which can initially make us feel more foggy.
I'm no expert on the pathway stuff but for the first 5 days on diflucan I did feel more out of it. I couldn't do my 2nd graders math without reading it several times.
After the 10 days I was feeling much more clear but not anywhere where I should be.
I noticed I itched less, think a bit clearer and overall much happier on the 10 day diflucan for a suspect fungal sinus infection which it did indeed clear up my sinuses completly.
It's been almost 10 days off the diflucan and now starting to notice the sinus h/a come back and feeling foggier than last week.
How has your diet been on the diflucan? Did you cut out the carbs? This is important when trying to kill yeast/candida.
Hope things improve for you.
-------------------- Bart Henslea 1976 Fibro/CFS/arthritis 2004 Lyme diagnosed 2007 3 1/2 years treatment with oral combos, Cowden, IV roc. BW herbs. Off all abx in 12/10. Feeling good. Posts: 647 | From NY | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Adamm,
Yes, Diflucan does employ the C P-450 pathway. However, some patients can still take it.
Your supplements are are safe but they may need some adjustment. Rather than a drug tying up the pathway to make liver protection supplements unsafe, it's the other way around - - without the supplements, it would not be safe to take the drug.
NAC might work better to protect the liver regarding that, though. About 500 mg. 3 x day is the typical dose for those on a similar abx protocol (Cpn). NAC is said to protect the liver from hepatitis from all the abx used on that protocol.
Still, sometimes, if a patient has trouble with the C P-450 pathway, no amount of supplement or protection is enough and that drug might need to be discontinued.
One primary sign of excess porphyrins is constipation and lower G.I. cramping. Agitation, Neuro excitability is another as well as other neuro pain or neuro symptoms. Hyper reactions to sound and light, too (but then that can also be from the infection, too).
But, you say you notice cognitive decline with the supplements. So, I'd switch them around.
Are you taking the Diflucan for yeast or for lyme ? If for yeast, I suggest Olive Leaf Extract instead.
If for lyme, I'm not experienced enough to offer Rx advice as I do only herbal and supplements (as I cannot tolerate any Rx).
Know, though, that lyme really hits the liver hard, too. Hepatic Encephalopathy is a result of lyme, itself, much of the time. However, it can also be affected by meds that are hard on the liver but more often, it's that the liver is just asked to do too much and a slower approach may be neeeded - or better protection - or different methods.
It's very hard to isolate the exact cause of liver or brain problems with all this. So much is trial and trial and trial.
I've been doing very well with andrographis. That does not use the C P-450 pathway, it is highly supportive while also helping with a broad range of things.
It is mentioned in Singleton's book and thoroughly discussed in Buhner and many abstracts for it at PubMed. It can increase fatigue at first, yet, I still find its value outweighs its downside.
If you are feeling any neuro- over load, you might cut back on the Gingko a bit as it can be far too stimulating for someone who is depleted. I can't take that at all. Ever. -
[ 11-03-2009, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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adamm
Unregistered
posted
Hmm--looks like Ginko may affect CYP450 activity...
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- From a recent search I did on this. I really like the Eclectic Institute brand. I think you can find that at www.vitacost.com if you want to give this a try.
Gotu Kola (not a cola) can calm the nervous system while also helping with alertness. It helps give a sense of well-being without feeling ``wired'' or ``hungover''.
Of everything I've used over the years, I cannot say enough good about the wonderful effects I've seen - in many ways - from Gotu Kola.
GOTU KOLA -- An Under-Appreciated Herb: Multifaceted Benefits on Microcirculation for Cardiovascular and Cognitive Health -- By Linda Fugate, PhD
The best nutrition in the world will not do anyone any good if it doesn't reach our tissues. The gatekeeper to tissues is the microcirculatory system, which includes blood vessels smaller than 0.1 mm in diameter. The health of the microcirculatory system is now recognized as critical to the total health of the individual. (1)
Gotu Kola's Effect on the Circulatory System . . .
From Wound Healing to Brain Health . . .
. . .
Conclusion
. . .
Gotu Kola's primary action is enhancement of the health of the circulatory system. Because circulation is critical to the health of the entire body, Gotu Kola offers benefits in a variety of conditions.
The antioxidant and collagen supportive functions of Gotu Kola are particularly important in enhancing healing of damaged tissues.
Gotu Kola is bitter and astringent in taste and cooling in action. It is a brain and memory tonic, and an anti-poison, and very useful for wound and skin healing.
. . .
TAM doctors use it as a brain and memory tonic, and have found it especially useful in children.
In Nepal, during the ceremony for the first day of spring, gotu kola leaf is given to schoolchildren to help them in their studies by improving memory and concentration.
It is very safe and extremely effective. TAM doctors also use it to cleanse the system of toxins and reduce inflammation. TCM doctors use gotu kola to clear up boils and toxic fevers. . .
The primary effects of gotu kola include both wound healing and improvement of mental clarity and emotional balance. . . .
Research Highlights
* Western scientists have focused on the herb's wound and skin healing effects.
Numerous studies from around the world have demonstrated its efficacy in treating keloids, leg ulcers, phlebitis, slow-healing wounds, leprosy, surgical lesions, cellulitis, burns, dermatitis, venous disorders,
and even cirrhosis of the liver
(Maquart et al., 1999; Shukla et al., 1999; Hausen, 1993; Cesarone et al., 1992).
These studies illustrate the plant's numerous stimulating effects on the healing processes of the skin and connective tissue.
* The Indian Central Council for Research on Ayurveda and Siddha, citing more than ten pharmacological and animal studies of gotu kola, also found evidence of the following characteristics:
CNS depressant [calming without causing drowiness], memory enhancer, anti-convulsant, antispasmodic, behavior and intelligence enhancer, and blood sugar regulator (Pandley et al., eds, 1996).
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