posted
I've got a friend w/arthrisis who has no clue that she may have lyme. Right now the drama is around her "sleep eating", supposedly a rare condition. She has other neuro-psychiatric symptoms and I'm wondering if this could all be connected to lyme. Once lyme gets in your brain it seems anything can happen.
It happens when she is asleep, she has no memory of it yet she works her way thru the fridge and pantry with horrible combinations of food. The evidence is always there in the morning. It has nothing to do with not eating during the day, she resorted to that after the sleep eating started.
She is sleep deprived as well as uncomfortably heavy and horrified and embarrassed to realize she does this. They just started her on Trazadone to get her to sleep heavy enough not to get up and graze and it worked to start off with but now they've had to adjust it because she did the sleep eating again. I think the re-adjustment is working but does anyone have any thoughts on this??
Vermont_Lymie
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posted
That is a side-effect of Ambien use noted in the press. Has she been using ambien?
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kelmo
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We're thinking my daughter did this on Seroquel.
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charlie
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posted
....so this is why the oatmeal and sardines disappear???? Posts: 2804 | From Texas | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
She has not been medicated for this until just recently and no, she's not taking Ambien, just Trazadone which is actually quite strong.
She has done this for YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS. YEARS! I feel so badly for her. It just started when she was a kid before she was taking any kind of medications at all.
It's just sleep eating as seen on TV. I've watched people do this under night camera and it's truly amazing to watch.
This friend lost 12 lbs in 3 wks when she started the Trazadone and quit the sleep eating. She feels HORRIBLE when she wakes up not just because she's not getting her REM sleep, but because of all of the horrible junk she eats. I know it's things like dipping a pickle in Crisco. Just AWFUL things she would normally never do!
Anyway, if you are sleep eating but not from meds, I'd like to know.
Thanks! Curley
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Tracy9
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posted
I have heard of this disorder; if you google it I'm sure you will find info on it.
I personally am a closet sleep eater. The only one I am in the closet from is myself. It has packed about 20 pounds at least on me in the last year.
It is a definite side effect for me of Ambien and Seroquel, both of which I take for sleep. I have a real dilemma, because not much else has worked for me, but in the morning I am horrified to find things like fudge ice cream syrup and marshmellows all over the counter. I think I've invented some interesting new flavors of ice cream though.....
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I eat twice everynight, then no breakfast, it's the only thing that makes me sleep....but I remember eating, I am awake....
Posts: 208 | From Hudson Valley, New York | Registered: Mar 2008
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I know it can be a really personal, painful topic so most people don't want to talk about it.
I can really see where the Ambien would cause sleep eating from the stories I've heard even before I asked this question on this board. WOW, people really do alot while on Ambien!
Since she has not been taking sleep meds then I can't say that they are causing it. She only just started the trazadone which is strong enough to keep her asleep where she can't get up and eat.
If anyone has any more insights or stories, please keep 'em coming! Never know which one will nail it for her.
Posts: 982 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2002
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posted
i did this when i was taking ambien cr. id get up in the morning and gripe at the kids for getting up in the night and making a mess of the kitchen and leaving food out and half cooked. Oops! Sorry kids.
-------------------- melissa Posts: 24 | From crosby, tx | Registered: Jan 2007
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TerryK
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posted
My mom, dad, all my siblings and myself have this to varying degrees and it is not medication induced. Mine first showed up when I had a huge relapse with lyme.
Every single person in my family who has this is ill with lyme symptoms. I know for sure that I have lyme and I'm fairly certain they do too.
I don't eat now without knowing it and haven't for years. At least there is no evidence that I do and I'm fairly certain that I don't. My mother sleep walks and eats in her sleep. She has a lack of oxygen during her sleep which may or may not be connected. Both my mother and one sister are very ill with lyme symptoms and they both have a sleep walking disorder that has yet to be identified despite sleep studies.
About 10 years ago the term "Night Eating Syndrome" was coined. There has been research on it over the past decade but still not much is known about it.
Some studies have implicated a lack of melatonin. Also tryptophan may be a problem. There may also be some connection to leptin and disordered adrenal response.
I've used muscle testing for years and as soon as I figured out that this was a problem I started supplementing for it which is why I think it is not much of a problem for me anymore.
I've been supplementing with time release melatonin for years and it helps. Luckily I found this through muscle testing, long before they knew that melatonin was involved.
Treating sleep apnea helped. Many in my family have sleep apnea but not everyone in my family who has NES has sleep apnea. My mother doesn't but she has an oxygen problem and one sister who was on long term abx and is not nearly as sick as the rest of us does not have sleep apnea but seems to have a mild form of NES. I haven't check with her about it over the past few years to see if some of the treatments she's been on for genetic issues has helped the NES so perhaps it is gone now.
I have disordered tryptophan which I believe can be part of the infection. I have 3X's the normal amount of leptin which points to leptin resistance. It is thought that leptin resistance or low leptin is part of the picture. I likely have leptin resistance but high leptin not low leptin. I also have low MSH (Melanocyte stimulating hormone). There is a feed back loop between MSH and leptin.
Leptin and MSH can be part of the picture for those who are exposed to mycotoxins or biotoxins. Some susceptible individuals may not be able to process these toxins and according to Dr. S. of "Mold Warriors", MSH and Leptin can be affected. My sister and I have been tested and we both have the dreaded genotype. The theory is that we don't make enough antibodies to get rid of mycotoxins or borrelia toxins very well.
Methylation cycle issues could also be part of the picture for some people. I sleep so much better than I used to since dealing with those issues and if you don't wake up during the night, then you don't have the urge to eat.
I haven't put it all together yet but the things that have helped me deal with it are:
melatonin - time release
deal with sleep disorders
deal with blood sugar issues - taking chormium before bedtime helps.
Vitamin K before bed helps. The Vit K may help due to methylation cycle issues.
Consider biotoxins in looking for answers - look into Dr. S's work in "Mold Warriors"
Taking the active form of folate before bed and dealing with methylation cycle issues. Look at Dr. Yasko's work regarding methylation.
There have been a number of posts about methylation and biotoxins here with lots of resources.
Tryptophan may help but if she has lyme she would need to be very cautious because tryptophan can increase a brain toxin called quinolinic acid which may already be increased in someone with lyme. Buhner has some info in his book on healing lyme that tells how to help with quinolinic acid.
I have to go out today and I"m still working on taxes but I'll try to help if you need pointers to further info.
Bottom line - there is not a lot of help out there. Some doctors think it is psychological. I say that is BS. There are some things she can try to see if it helps. She would be wise to seek out an alternative practioner to get some help. Muscle testing helped me the most and long before anything was known about this disorder.
Terry I'm not a doctor
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TerryK
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posted
I want to state that she should not mess around with tryptophan or melatonin or anything else that might mess with her brain chemistry while she is on sleep meds or anti-depressants without the help of someone who knows what they are doing.
It could be dangerous.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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TerryK
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posted
Haven't looked for studies for awhile. Here is one that might prove interesting.
A review of nighttime eating disorders.Howell MJ, Schenck CH, Crow SJ.
Minnesota Regional Sleep Disorders Center, Hennepin County Medical Center, Department of Neurology, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN 55415, USA. [email protected]
Nighttime eating is categorized as either night eating syndrome (NES) or sleep-related eating disorder (SRED). These conditions represent an interruption in the overnight fast that characterizes human sleep.
A critical review of the literature on NES and SRED will suggest that they are situated at opposite poles of a disordered eating spectrum.
NES could be considered an abnormality in the circadian rhythm of meal timing with a normal circadian timing of sleep onset.
Conversely, the feeding behavior in SRED is characterized by recurrent episodes of eating after an arousal from nighttime sleep with or without amnesia. Both conditions are often relentless and chronic.
Multiple definitions of night eating have limited our ability to determine the exact prevalence of NES. Studies have suggested that central nervous system (CNS) serotonin modulation may lead to an effective treatment of NES.
SRED is frequently associated with other sleep disorders, in particular parasomnias. Early studies have shown that the anti-seizure medication topiramate may be an effective treatment for SRED.
PMID: 18819825 [PubMed - in process]
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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Thanks for the PM alerting me to your posts. You are the pay dirt I was looking for, someone who has the disorder, period, end of story.
I just KNEW it had to be related to lyme and hearing your family history of lyme always intertwined w/this symptom says I'm right. I agree with you, I think they're combined.
What you posted is very, very interesting. I know her doctor has started on on the trazadone to make her sleep thru the disorder but as I said earlier, the night eating was starting back. Seems like her friend who keeps me informed said something about HTP5 which of courst is tryptophan.
I will pass this on to her friend and see if it goes anywhere. Just the fact alone that she is dealing w/arthritis says she has lyme to me.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!!
Curley
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