It does gross me out about taking earthworms persay, but at this point, I really don't care what it takes.
I did a search on LN and saw others talk about it, someone said it really helped their brain symptoms.
So I think I'm going to try it. I guess I just want to make sure it doesn't make my blood thinner, my platelets are 170-180 range as it is and my blood looks thin, I eat cloves of garlic too though.
posted
Hi Ocean, My doctor has me on lumbrokinase to break down Biofilms at the same time I am on abx. He feels that lumbrokinase is the most effective enyzme on the market to break down these films.
I can't say I notice any difference, but I think it is a long process. He mentioned that it will thin your blood.
The least expensive source I have found is vitacost.com....if you can find something cheaper, pls let me know :-)
Thanks for bringing this topic to the group. For folks with chronic Lyme, the biofilms may be a big part of the problem.
Posts: 546 | From Cascadia subduction zone | Registered: Mar 2002
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Biofilms are secretions by colonies of Borrelia that surround the colony and make it impervious to attack by the immune system and antibiotics. The researcher MacDonald found biofilms in Borrelia. It means that free-swimming Borrelia in the bloodstream may be killed by antibiotics, but the colonies in your tendons, ligaments, etc. are protected because they have massed together and secreted this biofilm coating.
In theory, certain enzyme supplements may be benefcial in helping to dissolve the biofilms, thus allowing penetration of the colony by the antibiotics and the immune system.
My LLMD has me on Wobenzym-N.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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troutscout
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3121
posted
Dave....hey buddy.
Sorry yousre here again........I recommend Thieves Oil from Young Living OIls. Awesome stuf.
Trout
-------------------- Now is the time in your life to find the "tiger" within. Let the claws be bared, and Lyme BEWARE!!! www.iowalymedisease.com [/URL] Posts: 5262 | From North East Iowa | Registered: Sep 2002
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I think that Serrapeptase can do the job, too. It's alot cheaper.
I don't know how it compares to the earthworms but it may work just fine.
Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
My LLMD wanted me specifically to take Lumbrokinase because it clears the blood vessels in the brain. He said that in large doses it can reverse a stroke!
If brain issues aren't your problem, then a less expensive enzyme product, like Vitalzyme, Neprinol, nattokinase, or Wobenzyme, would probably work for you.
Hope this helps!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
AFAIK, fibrinloytic enzymes can clear blood vessels of clots and fibrin deposits when they are in contcat with the deposits, and for that to happen my understanding is that the enzymes are to be given IV. I think when given by mouth the stomach acid breaks them down before they can be absorbed, even if the enzymes are taken on an empty stomach because there is always acid in the stomach
Nelly
[ 04-09-2009, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: nellypointis ]
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Dr. U is my son's doctor. She and others at her office came up with this protocol for autistic children--she rocks!
I think I summarized the protocol in another post but here it is:
EDTA with enzymes on an empty stomach wait at least 1/2 hour.
Anti-fungal, anti-biotic, anti-whatever (may take with food depending on what you are using)
activated charcoal on an empty stomach later in the day to mop up the mess
The children usually have a herx and see benefits a few months into it. Some have nasty, slimy substances come out (I have seen pictures of the stuff--YUCK!).
Posts: 236 | From Illinois | Registered: Feb 2009
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quote:Originally posted by hoot: Dr. U is my son's doctor. She and others at her office came up with this protocol for autistic children--she rocks!
At least Dr U is only making claims for the use of enzymes in the GI tract (unlike people who claim they can disolve fibrin in blood vessels).
Could you ask her how she thinks the enzymes survive the stomach acidity to reach the gut and "do their stuff" there?
This is a very important point that is never really addressed by the people/doctors who use enzyme therapy other than by just saying "take the enzymes on an empty stomach". So I would REALLY like to get an answer from a doctor who is using them.
Nelly
Posts: 416 | From france | Registered: Oct 2001
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
You can get the serrapeptase that is enteric coated. This may help with the stomach acid issue.
I'm not an expert, though.
I'm not sure if the other types of products are enteric coated.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
I believe Wobenzym-N is enteric- coated, so that it doesn't dissolve in the stomach, but further down in the intestines.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Enzymes tend to become activated at low pH so most of them survive in the stomach acid. I'm sure there are other ones that work optimally at a high pH. I'm assuming those would be enteric coated.
Jen
Posts: 236 | From Illinois | Registered: Feb 2009
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
I wonder if this is the new protocol I read about a group of drs and researchers trying.
First they use the IV antibiotics for a couple of months,
then go to the not yet named IV sol.
and then back to another antibiotic.
They say they are having a lot better success but are not naming it yet.
Anyone heard of this?
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by lymeherx: What are biofilms? What do they do if you have lyme?
Do they help with symptoms? :confused:
Thought there was good info to help with this question after looking at Alzheimer's Disease and Neuroborreliosis the website of Dr. M who spoke of biofilms in the doc Under Our Skin.
Once at this website, scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page, past all the images of spirochetes until you see the link for Biofilms of Borrelia burgdorferi Lecture July 7,2008 University of New Haven.
I've only gone thru one third of it so far and I think you will find it useful information.
Rick
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