posted
Hi all. Phew! With my brain fog it took me hours to figure out where the post new topic was. I seem to be bad today.
Anyway, a very nice lady that answers here to Dedrato48 invited me here to get further help. I posted to get a LLMD but doubt there is anyone in my area. Olympia, WA
My husband had a pale red 3" circumference circle shaped rash on the inside of his arm since last fall. Would a Lyme erythema migrans stay so long without any dramatic change?
He had strep throat, fatigue & fever at the time as well so doc put him on penicillin which didn't do much for him. Later I gave him my z-pak to take and at least the strep throat, fatigue & fever went away.
He went to a dermatologist and had useless Lyme screen test done from Quest lab. All his other labs are normal, CDC, liver, kidney, etc. Derm said he is too healthy to have Lyme so he can stop the Doxy 100 mg. twice a day. He feels good on Azith or Doxy.
I have looked at multiple pics of Lyme rash and his looks very similar. Clearing in the middle with a 1/4" pale red ring. I don't want him to get sicker from not being smart about this.
I have been sick with "FM" for over 7 years. Antibiotics make me herx like crazy. I did the MP for 3 1/2 years but had to quit cause I had to much pain in my shoulders and gallbladder attacks. When I finally did quit the 25 mg of mino neuro symptoms took off.
I thought I was going to die a few nights when I woke up and my brain felt like it was going to push out of my head and my forehead was numb. I have been working up to the Wheldon/Stratton protocol since last April 08.
Started slowly with supplements & finally began antibiotics in Sept. 08. Doing better but I am still homebound sick most of the time.
Read Lyme symptom check list. Like I said I am better now so don't have any severe symptoms. Still have 16 moderate/often and 21 mild/occasional on the list. But if I do anything much or fail to take supplements things rapidly go downhill.
Hope this is not too long. Hope some folks will share their thoughts. We appreciate you are sick too and so hard to think & type. Anything will be great. TIA
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
Dekrator48 really is a wonderfully helpful person!
I don't know if an EM rash would persist this long or not, but nothing surprises me.
Sometimes the co-infection Bartonella can cause odd skin rashes. I know I've had several that no dermatologist could diagnosis for years. It took my LLMD to do that.
Just a few weeks ago the whole top of my right foot turned purple. It stayed that way for a week. I assumed that was Bartonella too. I blame most all strange things on Barts.
Good luck to you and your husband. A LLMD is the best way to go for an accurate evaluation. If there isn't one near you, hopefully you could arrange to travel to get to one.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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Dekrator48
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18239
posted
CelticLadee,
I'm glad you took my advice and came to this site.
There will be more people along to give some advice also, I'm sure.
Come back often, the people here are great.
You need answers and this is a good place to start.
I just checked the Seeking a Doctor board but I did not see your post there. Maybe my lyme brain missed it, but go there and make sure you posted for a Dr near you.
Leelee, thanks for the kind words!
-------------------- The fibromyalgia I've had for 32 years was an undiagnosed Lyme symptom.
"For I know the plans I have for you", declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future". -Jeremiah 29:11 Posts: 6076 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Thank you very much Lee Lee for your reply. So you think strange things happen when you have Lyme disease, huh? LOL Well, I guess I must be in the right place. My life has been very strange the last 7 years.
I wonder if anyone here ever heard of an EM rash lasting 8-9 months and cortisterioid cream fading it away? That is what happened with my husband.
Yesterday the dermatologist took the stitch out at the site. Now he has a red spot from the bandage & wound in the middle of the clearing plus the circle rash is almost gone. Taking a pic seems futile now.
She said he is too healthy to have Lyme disease so I guess we don't have to worry about that for him. She thinks the rash was just some sort of dermatitis I guess. Seems odd to me the inside of upper arm under the bicep would do that. No where else.
I do appreciate your input and understand what you are saying. I have blamed many strange symptoms on my fibromyalgia which by the way, I always thought is most likely an infection. I never took antidepressants, etc. when my MD offered them.
Hope you are having a better day. Take care.
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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Yes, I have had such bad brain fog I didn't recognize the "new post here" feature. I ended up replying at the end of a post with the title of seeking doctor or some similar wording started by a regular person here.
I have it figured out now so will start my own posts. LOL Yesterday was a major "DUH" day for me. I think I am a bit better today after taking some detoxying measures.
I have been forgetting so many things lately and last night I called an aunt, an uncle. Caught it right away and corrected it laughing but I felt silly & embarrassed for a moment or two. <wink>
Bless you for all your help. Don't think I will ever forget how wonderful you have been helping me the last few days. You are very special I know.
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Hello Metallic Blue. Thank you for your kind offer. I have emailed you and look forward to your response.
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
I forgot you mentioned which state you were in already. Sent you the information.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Forgive me it this has been said already (brain fog has just taken over after all this copying and pasting) :
Get PHOTOS of that rash. With date, a clean coin or ruler for size reference and your husband's face in at least on pix with the rash, if possible.
Keep a photo diary of changes, and date them.
===========
This explains the medical politics around lyme WHY you need an ILADS-educated or ILADS-member LLMD (and near Seattle you also have some ILADS-member LL NDs (naturopathic doctors):
CONTROVERSY CONTINUES TO FUEL THE "LYME WAR" -(author's details at link)
As two medical societies battle over its diagnosis and treatment, Lyme disease remains a frequently missed illness. Here is how to spot and treat it.
Excerpts:
Meet the players
The opponents in the battle over the diagnosis and treatment of Lyme disease are the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA), the largest national organization of general infectious disease specialists, (and)
and the International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS), an organization made up of physicians from many specialties. ( www.ilads.org )
ILADS, by contrast, asserts that the illness is much more common than reported, underdiagnosed, easier to contract than previously believed, difficult to diagnose through commercial blood tests, and difficult to treat, (especially)
especially when treatment is delayed because of commonly encountered diagnostic difficulties ( http://www.ilads.org/guidelines.html - Accessed April 6, 2007).
. . .
" . . .To treat Lyme disease for a comparable number of life cycles, treatment would need to last 30 weeks. . . ."
`` . . .Patients with Lyme disease almost always have negative results on standard blood screening tests and have no remarkable findings on physical exam, so they are frequently referred to mental-health professionals for evaluation.
"...If all cases were detected and treated in the early stages of Lyme disease, the debate over the diagnosis and treatment of late-stage disease would not be an issue, and devastating rheumatologic, neurologic, and cardiac complications could be avoided..."
. . . * Clinicians do not realize that the CDC has gone on record as saying the commercial Lyme tests are designed for epidemiologic rather than diagnostic purposes, and a diagnosis should be based on clinical presentation rather than serologic results.
- Full article at link above, containing MUCH more detailed information.
-===
Co-infections (other tick-borne infections or TBD - tick-borne disease) are not discussed in the Savely article due to space limits. Still, any LLMD you would see would know how to assess/treat if others are present.
May 2008 Volume 39 Number 5 LABMEDICINE www.labmedicine.com - American Society for Clinical Pathology
CHRONIC BACTERIAL AND VIRAL INFECTIONS IN NEURODEGENERATIVE AND NEUROBEHAVIORAL DISEASES
- by Garth Nicolson, Ph.D.
===========================
AFTER reading the articles above this will make more sense and, sadly, shows the state of treatment (and - with the new committee gathered, it is still a horrible situation for there are no real experts on the new panel):
Attorney General Richard Blumenthal today announced that his antitrust investigation has uncovered serious flaws in the Infectious Diseases Society of America's (IDSA) process for writing its 2006 Lyme disease guidelines and the IDSA has agreed to reassess them with the assistance of an outside arbiter.
You should also be evaluated for coinfections. Not all tests are great in that regard, either, but a good LLMD can evaluate you and then guide you in testing. One of the top labs is:
"With most infections, your immune system first forms IgM antibodies, then in about 2 to 4 weeks, you see IgG antibodies. In some infections, IgG antibodies may be detectable for years.
Because Borrelia burgdorferi is a chronic persistent infection that may last for decades, you would think patients with chronic symptoms would have positive IgG Western blots.
But actually, more IgM blots are positive in chronic borreliosis than IgG. Every time Borrelia burgdorferi reproduces itself, it may stimulate the immune system to form new IgM antibodies.
Some patients have both IgG and IgM blots positive. But if either the IgG or IgM blot is positive, overall it is a positive result.
Response to antibiotics is the same if either is positive, or both. Some antibodies against the borrelia are given more significance if they are IgG versus IgM, or vice versa.
Since this is a chronic persistent infection, this does not make a lot of sense to me. A newly formed Borrelia burgdorferi should have the same antigen parts as the previous bacteria that produced it.
But anyway, from my clinical experience, these borrelia associated bands usually predict a clinical change in symptoms with antibiotics, regardless of whether they are IgG or IgM."
The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.
- In the menu to the left of their home page, you can order DVDs of past ILADS seminars. You might also be able to borrow some from your local lyme support group.
This are invaluable to understanding how these infections work. And, none of this is taught in medical schools. None.
In addition to the usual coinfections from ticks (such as babesia, bartonella, ehrlichia, RMSF, etc.), there are some other chronic stealth infections that an excellent LLMD should know about:
Leelee
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 19112
posted
quote:Originally posted by Keebler:
Get PHOTOS of that rash. With date, a clean coin or ruler for size reference and your husband's face in at least on pix with the rash, if possible.
That is such a good suggestion! I started taking photos of my rashes and weird skin things and sending them to my LLMD so they are always in my file. I try and take three pictures of each problem area from three different angles. Might be overkill, but after having been sick so many years, I have become fanatical about documenting everything.
I also keep a copy in a special "Lyme and Co-Infection" notebook that I made to document everything about Lyme and cos.
-------------------- The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy. Martin Luther King,Jr Posts: 1573 | From Maryland | Registered: Feb 2009
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
If he did a punch biopsy did he send it to a Lyme
Lab like IgeneX? This would be your best bet at
getting results fast.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
Thank you Keebler for your welcome message & all the information you shared. We had company this weekend so I have not had much time to read or respond.
Keebler & Lee Lee, I took pics of the rash as you directed but the rash does not show very well as it is faded from the cortisteroid cream useage. We will watch for changes.
He is not putting cream on it now and he stopped the Doxy Friday against my wishes. Because the dermatologist told him he is too healthy to have Lyme and it is probably dermatitis. Ack! I sure hope so! But I am very concerned.
Yes, Pinelady, my husband goes back to the dermatologist Monday. I told him to get a copy of the punch biopsy lab report so I can read what it says. I don't think it was sent to Igenex but we shall see. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.
Time for bed. Good night all.
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
--
Oh . . . I am glad to hear he is not using the cortisteroid cream any more. I don't recall if I wrote this, but that should NOT be used with lyme.
NO steroids should be used with lyme, not even creams or local shots (unless a major emergency and then with specific abx).
Be sure your husband gets a copy of that test result in his hands to take home with him.
kgg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5867
posted
Hi, CelticLadee!
You probably don't remember me, but I was on the MP board a long time ago. I think I was kgg/mpg there. But could have been Mark's mom. My then, teenage son was attempting the MP. I don't post there anymore, but every once in a while I would look up your name to see how you are doing. I was concerned when I could not find you anymore! I am sorry that you ended up having a hard time with it. You were so perservering!
I agree with your concern regarding your husband's rash. If he is like my husband, since the doc said he didn't have Lyme and that he was healthy you will probably have a hard time convincing him to pursue it more.
Get the best picture you can of the rash. I just scanned the previous responses, so I don't know if it was suggested, but I like a dime or ruler next to the rash area to give a perspective of size. The rash is suspicious, since ticks like warm moist areas, where you describe would be a common place for a bite mark. Lyme can cause all sorts of rashes although the bull's eye tends to be the most common.
I don't know if the bull's eye rash lasts for months or not. Probably only a Lyme doc could address that. I have read where they can come and go with treatment or a flare.
The Wheldon/Stratton protocol is quite an undertaking although not to unlike treating Lyme. It would be the Flagyl that does me in!
Sorry I couldn't be more help but wanted to say hi.
Best, Karen
Posts: 1691 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Keebler, I wish he had never used the cortisteriod cream. We didn't recognize it as such. The derm gave him two RX's for creams. One was clearly marked hydrocortisone cream 2.5% She wants him to put on his face when the small red rough patches she calls dermatitis flares on his face. This is a seperate issue.
The other cream is Fluocinonide 0.05% which neither of us knew as a "steroid" type cream. I should have looked it up right away but didn't think to do that until a week later. When I did I realized our mistake and he quit using it. He never used the hydrocortisone on his face.
We both know to avoid steroids but this dermatologist told him a story about how mild it is and how it does not enter the system as it is localized. My believe is the skin is our largest organ and we do absorb things into our blood, liver, etc. via the skin. The article I read about Fluocinonide actually went into the process it goes through entering your liver/bile function etc. So I think she is all to lame about it all. <wink>
I will let you know what today's visit brings on. If she allows anytime for talking. She is always in a hurry and rushs in and out. Plus she is a non stop talker and does not allow much for questions. He may have to interrupt her this time. LOL
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Oh my gosh Karen... I am surprised to hear from you here. What a treat to get your message. How is it going with you & your son these days?
Yes, I took pics of DH's faded rash with biopsy scar red spot in the middle. Pic has his face, a dime, a dated newspaper & rash site. But you really cannot see the circular rash now. The punch biopsy site looks worse than anything else. LOL Probably an exercise in futility. oh well. Will watch for changes & take more pics if necessary.
Oh yes, I did most definitely following the MP to the letter. I went beyond what my husband was comfortable with by doing the MP over two years. He wanted me to quit at year two, my Phase 2, when it was no longer giving me noticeable benefits. But I held out another year and a half making it to Phase 3 barely but sicker. Then they labeled us Phase 5 when I started falling apart. LOL But not before they told me they could not help me anymore. Then my MP doctor told me she could not help me anymore when I could not even tolerate minocycline. If you can't tolerate the treatment then there really is no choice. But it is all for the best.
April 08 I was very sick and on my own. My light intolerance had esculated severely. I was one that had it prior to the MP. At the end of my MP journey my 25D was not even measurable. (so much for Meg's accusations I was not being compliant!) <wink>
At the Cpn website they explained my symptoms with light intolerance, etc. as "secondary porphyria induced by Cpn bacteria infection". As I studied it I could understand how it applied to me. I slowly ramped up the supplements and abx so I can now be outdoors without horric reactions. I feel like a caged bird set free! (big smile)
So far this seems to really be working for me. I do have high IgG titers for Cpn which in itself is not conclusive. But when I slowly ramped up the NAC it gave me horrible red burning eyes, sneezing, etc. But wonderfully, it also soothed my liver and I quit having gallbladder attacks. I have worked up to the prescribed dose of Doxy everyday now as well as Zith on MWF.
I am toying with the Tinidazole pulses now as I don't dare do the full monty. Tini seems to really benefit me after the pulse wears off as I have much better energy at times. The down side being I have much worse brain fog and strange memory lapses. Last Sat. I forgot how to shift my manual car so my husband took over. Scary!
By the way, I also slowly ramped up the D3 as it gave me very strong reactions. It really stirs up my immune system. Last test my D25 is up to 55. I am presently taking 2,000 IU vitamin D3 a day. Lately when I spend much time in the sun it also increases 25D so my immune system kicks in. I would say vit D does not suppress my immune system. <wink>
While reading Lyme literature for my husband's situation I met up with DeKrator48 on another message board. She thought we both seemed suspicious for Lyme so I am here to learn.
I have not shared this fact yet about me. In the mid 70's we were hiking in the foothills. I did not realize it but a tick had fallen into my shirt and attached itself under my left breast in my torso. I just thought my new bra was rubbing and pinching. That night when I undressed to take a bath I saw this big black bulb protruding out of my skin. I yelled for my husband as I was shocked. I thought it looked like a carpenter ant butt so you can imagine what was going through my mind!
DH told me it was a tick and he removed it with the head intact. That sucker was full of my blood and had been feasting for 6-8 hours. I did not get a Lyme rash so discounted it. Didn't go to the doctor cause it healed up fine. WA is not known for a high incidence of Lyme. But later I noticed my fingers started getting very stiff with use. At that time I had to give up my guitar & keyboard lessons. Then I began having migraines which increased in intensity & events over the years. But I just attributed all to aging & hormones, etc.
When I was first diagnosed with FM it was after my MD sent me to the hospital for a week with abnormal heart symptoms for tests. I was loosely diagnosed with pericarditis but it was not a classic case. I had some minor vein blockage at the ends of the left ventricle branch but the area percarditis inflames looked ok. I had all the symptoms of it though and it progressed into multiple system symptoms over the following months thereby the FM diagnosis.
Now after reading lots of Lyme literature I am kind of wondering if that nasty tick could have infected me and it took all those years to show up. I was healthy otherwise so could it just take a long time for the tick disease to manifest itself? I hope I am not grasping at straws. I just want to get to the bottom of what is wrong with me so I can get well!
So tell me, how far along are you on your Lyme treatment? I chose to use Tini cause Flagyl upset the stomach more, causes more herxing, etc. Doesn't it work just as well for Lyme?
I hope you will keep in touch. Bless you!
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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kgg
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5867
posted
It's so good to hear from you! You have put a smile on my face. Yes, Lyme can take that long to show itself. Sounds like your immune system could keep it suppressed to a point. I am so happy for you that you have found something to help with tolerating the sun. That must have been really hard all of those years.
Yes, Tinidazole is just as good as Flagyl and better tolerated. And is considered a cyst buster in Lyme treatment. Although neither are my favorite. When I was on just 1/2 tab of 250mg twice a day, I was trying to make homemade hummingbird food with a simple syrup. Three pans later, I gave up. I had boiled dry three pans in a row!! And talk about balance issues. I would literally bounce off the walls walking into my kitchen. Not a good time.
The good thing is that the treatment you are on will also address Borrelia. Sometimes I think Lyme is a poor name for what we all deal with. But since the people with CFS/ME can't decide what to rename their condition, I can't imagine trying to rename Lyme! But we all end up with what I have seen called an infectious soup. My son for example has Lyme (borrelia),Bartonella, Babesia, Erhlichia, Mycoplasma p., CMV, EBV, HHV6 and we can't forget Candida. He has not been tested for Cpn yet. The theory is that Lyme suppresses the immune system thereby allowing many opportunistic infections. Or multiple co-infections depending on what the ticks were harboring.
I did antibiotic treatment for Lyme for about two years. That included 4 months of IV antibiotics. Then I was off of treatment for about two years. I felt 85% better. Just not well enough to go back to work. Then last July I started doing a slide. Further testing showed I had Babesia and my lyme was active. So I have been back on treatment for 5 months now. I have had the Lyme since my tick bites at age 10. That is 40 years ago. I doubt I will ever be off antibiotics for any long length of time. But that is OK with me as long as I improve each time.
The only thing with the protocol you are on is, if I am remembering right, they nix the use of Cephalosporins like the MP did. They are my favorite antibiotic. I am currently taking Ceftin. It helps my energy, pain and brain fog the most. For me it is my favorite. So at some point, when you feel like you have given the protocol a go long enough, consider adding in a Cephalosporin. I will cross my fingers and toes that it helps you as much as it did me!
It is nice to be back in touch!
Best, Karen
Posts: 1691 | From Maine | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Hey Karen. I enjoyed catching up with you. Sorry I did not get back to you right away. With company last weekend then DH home this week from his surgery I have been kept busy. <wink>
Glad to know you and your son are in treatment. I have wondered if this was going to be an ongoing battle for the rest of my life. So I can appreciate what you are saying.
Interesting theory about Lyme suppressing the immune system thereby allowing other infections such as Cpn. Could it possibly ever be the other way around? Which came first the Cpn or the Lyme? At any rate I think my DH & I both need to get tested soon for Lyme. I read somewhere... been reading a lot so can't remember exactly. One of the Lyme specialist doctors said he did not call it Lyme referred to a city in a state in USA. Then he said call it BB ... can't spell it today.
I am wondering if the Azith & Tini have not stirred up something ... My left foot & ankle became swollen in Dec. By the end of Jan it was not swollen but the ball of my left foot became numbish ... feels like stepping on a wad. No visible problem so must be nerve.
A few days ago the left thigh got a strange perfect red circle the size of a dime. It feels dented to the touch and dried out. My leg began hurting then in same area. This morning I have around seven little red dots higher that look like bug bites. My leg is hurting up higher now where the new rash is and my foot is tingling terribly today.
I need to find out if this is Cpn or Lyme symptom. With all the memory lapses lately I feel like the antibiotics are causing nerve flare up in my brain & body. Does that make sense?
The doses you take for Lyme are higher than for Cpn I believe. I only take 200 mg Doxy daily, 250 Azith on MWF and working my way up with the Tini now. Almost a month ago I did a one day pulse but need to work up to a 5 day pulse.
I am feeling better than last fall through winter so I know the treatment is doing something beneficial so far. But I realize things can change so am more aware this treatment.
I will look into the Cephalosporin as I have no knowledge of it. Sounds promising. Thanks for sharing with me.
I pray you and your son do well. Got to go to my dental appointment for a yearly teeth cleaning now. Hope I can remember how to shift my car today. LOL You cracked me up with your hummingbird feeder story. I certainly can relate. Take care and set timers for everything!
-------------------- IGeneX WB on 9.09: IGG:31.IND,34.IND,41+,66+ IGM:39IND,41++ on 9.09 same on 1.10 ME/CFS, CPN, EBV, HHV6 Posts: 77 | From Washington | Registered: Apr 2009
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And talk about balance issues. I would literally bounce off the walls walking into my kitchen. Not a good time. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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