posted
I'm so shocked that my esoterix blood tests for mold came back with such significant results. I don't think any of my doctors expected this, nor did I. I know they'll be just as shocked as I am.
Reference Range: less than 10 Very low antibody levels (minimal concern) 10-15 Low antibody levels 15-20 moderate antibody levels 20-50 high antibody levels 50-100 very high antibody levels greater than 100 Extremely high antibody levels
The last number is quite frightening, yet at the same time it's almost exciting because perhaps it's an answer. I don't know anything about these molds, but I'm hoping they may have something to do with the fact that my organs are not functioning correctly, and that my organs are so taxed that I can't even tolerate lyme treatment. I've never met anyone with digestive system issues as severe as my own. Could these molds have anything to do with that, or am I just kind of grasping here?
Does anyone have any information on the molds I tested high for? I tried to google and I couldn't seem to find much.
I'd appreciate any information or advice anyone has. Thanks so much Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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blaze
Unregistered
posted
Just that the radiation emitted from cell phone and wifi towers and antennas increases the growth rate of molds and yeasts...
I know Dr. S does consults with other docs, so maybe he can work with your doctor to get this taken care of. Makes sense that mold could be contributing to your health problems.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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lymeHerx001
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posted
what test was this?
Posts: 2905 | From New England | Registered: Sep 2004
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posted
I, too, am interested in which test this is. Is it through a specific lab like Igenex?
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Was your blood test an IgG or IgE antibody test?
I don't know a great deal about toxic mold so take what I say for what it's worth.
This is just my opinion but generally speaking elevated IgG antibodies to toxic mold means that you have been exposed to those toxic molds in the fairly recent past or that you are constantly being exposed to those toxic molds and you could possibly have a chronic fungal/mold infection within your body. You could potentially have mold mycotoxins on board as well.
Either way I would definitely look more into the possibility that toxic molds could be a potential contributor to your health problems.
I say this because having toxic mold infections and mycotoxins within the body can cause nearly the identical set of symptoms as does Lyme Disease.
* Extreme blood pressure, cholesterol, or triglycerides irregularities
* Ringing in ears, balance problems (very common), dizziness, loss of hearing (aspergillus niger)
* Chronic fatigue (also included under this classification directional confusion)
* Intermittent face flushing; almost always systemic, Called the Mylar Flush (neurological)
* Night head sweats, and drooling while sleeping, profuse sweating
* Multiple chemical sensitivity; only upon exposure to Stachybotrys and Chaetomium
* Nose bleeds (stachybotrys)
* Bruising/scarring easily; rash or hives, bloody lesions all over the skin (Often systemic, see images;skin)
* Reproductive system complications; infertility, changes in menstrual cycles, miscarriage
* Sudden weight changes (Detoxifier genotypes tend to gain weight, non detoxifier genotypes tend to lose weight)
* Cancer
* Hair loss, very brittle nails, temporary loss of fingerprints (in rare cases)
* Joint/muscle stiffness and pain
* Irregular heart beat/heart attack
* Seizures, inadvertent body jerking, twitching, inadvertent facial movements or numbness in face
* Hypersensitivity when re-exposed to molds, which can lead to anaphylaxis
* Anaphylaxis upon re-exposure to mycotoxin producing molds
* Death, in extreme cases
Also, you might want to have your mold mycotoxin levels tested. Mold mycotoxins are EXTREMELY toxic!!!!
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
Here's an informative website about the health effects of toxic mold:
This film discusses the controversy surrounding toxic mold induced illness, it's diagnosis and it's treatment.
It is the "Under Our Skin" of mold induced illness.
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Well did you find out if trichophyton mold is toxic? Not all molds all toxic and that number is your highest. Aspergillus I think can be toxic.
Ask your doctor if high antibodies mean chronic exposure to a moldy environment (ie your house) or if you are "colonized" with this mold inside your body. How is that delineation made? How does this test know what is causing the high antibodies?
Also, how did you decide to pick which molds to do on this test, or did your doctor order everything and these are what showed up?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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What Lab ???????????
Posts: 789 | From CT, | Registered: Jun 2006
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Well did you find out if trichophyton mold is toxic? Not all molds all toxic and that number is your highest. Aspergillus I think can be toxic.
Ask your doctor if high antibodies mean chronic exposure to a moldy environment (ie your house) or if you are "colonized" with this mold inside your body. How is that delineation made? How does this test know what is causing the high antibodies?
Also, how did you decide to pick which molds to do on this test, or did your doctor order everything and these are what showed up?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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I recently tested high on bad molds too. Very scary. We are now sorting out testing for our house for mold remediation pre/post testing.
Everything I have read is bad. Long term mold exposure deregulates our immunity and contributes to viral/pathogen antibody activations. Meaning we become so immune compromised that the antibodies turn into the diseases they were designed to protect us from getting. In my case, lyme, co-infections, EBV, HHV6, CMV.
Mold may have been the culprit that unleased all these dogs. My LLND and LLMD told me that when mold is an issue, it must treated first or no treatments can be fully effective!
And, the world of mold is a slippery slope with many mold "inspectors" "remediators" being nothing more than scam con artists. It is a very unregulated industry where experts don't always agree.
I have been told repeatedly "Do your homework!!"....easier said than done with conflicting information out there. We have ordered several books and DVDs in hopes of keeping ourselves from being taken to the cleaners.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
The best DVD we have bought, by far, is "The Truth About Mold". It can be purchased for about $99 at this website which is good info: http://www.toxicmoldsolutions.us/
Comprehensive Mold DVDs are expensive. We paid $150 and $130 for other DVDs (one by Allstate Ins!) that were not as good as the $99 one! We highly recommend the $99 one.
There are a series of Gary Rosen PhD and James Schaller MD Mold books. There is about 4 or 5 books. Very good information, but it is deplorable what they have done. They took what should be ONE book for ONE price and chopped it up into 4 or 5 books...at $20+ each!! And they give information up to a point in one book and then say "see our sister book blah, blah, blah, for more information". Bait and Switch big time. But, the information is good, and it is going to cost about $100 to buy all the books....all written in 2006 so it should have all been in ONE book. It was intentional revenue generating marketing plan. For that reason it makes me want to not recommend them, but the information is good. Just know what it is.
There are a couple of other books we ordered that are not received yet so I can't say how they are.
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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sparkle7
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Member # 10397
Trichophyton is a dermatophyte which inhabits the soil, humans or animals. Related to its natural habitats, the genus includes anthropophilic, zoophilic, and geophilic species. Some species are cosmopolitan. Others have a restricted geographic distribution. Trichophyton concentricum, for example, is endemic at Pacific Islands, Southeast Asia, and Central America. Trichophyton is one of the leading causes of hair, skin, and nail infections in humans. Most of the Trichophyton species have teleomorphic forms and these teleomorphs are classified in the genus Arthroderma.
Susceptibility
Ketoconazole, clotrimazole, itraconazole, terbinafine, naftifine, and amorolfine are in general active in vitro against Trichophyton [725, 1399, 1887]. Terbinafine usually appears to be the most effective agent [725, 1119, 1121, 2307]. In general, isolates of Trichophyton rubrum are more susceptible to antifungal agents compared to Trichophyton mentagrophytes [1399]. The azole derivatives, Syn2869, Syn2836, Syn2903, and Syn2921 are also active in vitro against Trichophyton [2001].
For MICs of various antifungal drugs for Trichophyton spp., see our susceptibility database.
Griseofulvin, once the drug of choice for treatment of dermatophytosis, is now less commonly used due to the availability of more effective and less toxic drugs [2485]. Terbinafine [114, 2485] and itraconazole [114, 524, 1007, 2485] are now commonly used in treatment of infections due to Trichophyton spp. and other dermatophytes. For treatment of tinea capitis and onychomycosis, oral therapy is usually preferred [2485].
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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bejoy
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Member # 11129
posted
Congratulations for locating these culprits.
The best homeopathic treatments I know for molds are the Deseret Biologicals product called FNG and the Sanum remedies.
I have used FNG with photons successfully to move molds out of my body.
The best herbals I know are oregano oil, garlic, and neem.
Brussels is a wealth of information on treatments for molds and fungals.
I have had a whole host of these molds as well, besides lyme. The prescription treatments Nystatin and Diflucan only helped a little, then were useless.
The main thing besides treating the body is to get your house cleaned out. Chances are you may be living in these molds that your body has picked up.
Mold and lyme symptoms are very similar, but in my case I learned to tell the difference. Both are no fun, but treatable.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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cantgiveupyet
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posted
Does anyone have the test codes for these tests thru Labcorp?
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Wow, I'm so overwhelmed...thank you for responding everyone!!
For everyone who inquired, this test was done through esoterix, just like jam kindly explained for me Since we both live in the same place jam, and have had the same test, we must have the same LLMD. Have you begun treatment yet jam?
Blaze, I find that to be incredibly interesting. In a 4 mile radius of my house there are 167 towers and 542 antennas. There are 4 antennas and 5 towers just .5 miles (1/2 a mile) from my house. What's average for this sort of thing?
Emla999, they were IgG positives. I also had the same molds tested through IgE, but my positives through IgE were much, much weaker. Would you happen to know the difference between IgG and IgE? Thank you so much for your information.
CD57, I don't know how my doctor went about choosing which molds to test. There was a long list, and he happened to choose these ones. I know for sure that these are toxic molds, so maybe they were the most toxic on the list?
Sparkle- thank you! I was hoping that people would know more about the specific molds that I tested positive for, so I do really appreciate your information. I tried to google again, and I found something called "invasive aspergillus" and "invasive trychophyton", which seem to cause issues with the heart and central nervous system. That sounds more like what I'm dealing with. My issues go much further than just issues with the skin. I have left arm pain, jaw pain, chest pain, shortness of breath, and have had atrial fibrillation...and I'm only 19! I'm hoping that these molds tie in somehow.
Bejoy, do you know anything about using olive leaf for treating mold? I was on babesia treatment (artemisinin and enula) and was tolerating it until my LLMD added olive leaf extract. After taking just two drops of it, I ended up in the ER. It was nothing like my lyme herxes that landed me in the ER. I had diarrhea for the first time in years, and I had all of the symptoms of a heart attack. It was terrifying and I haven't recovered since. That was in November. I wonder if that could have had anything to do with mold...
Thanks for helping me sort this out everyone Posts: 710 | From West Coast | Registered: May 2008
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disturbedme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
My husband had the mold testing done through LabCorp as well and had a couple of them come back super high. His doctor, who is very lyme friendly, said nothing on how to treat it or what to do about it... so I really have no idea. I've wondered about that myself. I am going to ask to have my blood tested for mold as well.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
LittleLymie19,
I maybe wrong but I believe that elevated IgE blood antibodies to molds indicates that you are having an allergic response to the molds that you have been exposed to.
So, elevated IgE antibodies indicates an allergic reaction to those toxic molds.
Your IgE antibody levels can be LOW even though you are being exposed to those molds. This is because some people just aren't allergic to molds and thus they don't produce an allergic antibody (IgE) response to molds when they are exposed to them.
Elevated IgG blood antibodies to molds could either indicate that you have been exposed to those molds in the past and your body fought the mold infection off.
OR
It could also mean that you are having ongoing exposure to those molds and your body is currently fighting the mold infection.
If your IgG blood antibody levels to toxic molds are consistently elevated then this would mean that your body is fighting off a chronic and ongoing mold infection.
So, elevated IgG blood antibodies would indicate exposure to those toxic molds. It could indicate either past exposure or ongoing chronic exposure.
Also, exposure to toxic molds could also mean that you have been exposed to mold mycotoxins such as AFLATOXIN from Aspergillus mold, TRICOTHECENE from Stachybotrys mold, OCHRATOXIN from penicillum etc..
Mold mycotoxins are extremely toxic and they can cause a host of health related problems. So,you might want to have your mold mycotoxin levels checked.
Also, if you don't mind me asking were you tested for any of the molds bellow:
Aspergillus flavus
Stachybotrys chartarum
Penicillium species
Posts: 1223 | From U.S.A | Registered: Jul 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I agree with bejoy - I would avoid drug therapies if possible.
I just posted that for reference.
How about using binders? Maybe some of them could address absorbing the toxins from your system...? I would have to study this further to recommend something in particular.
The allergy concept is interesting, as well.
You would have to treat the source at some time.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
LittleLymie19, not sure if we are seeing the same doctor or not. I consult with 3 different ones, so it is possible you may be seeing one of them, though one of 3 is not in CA (phone consults)
I haven't started treating lyme yet. What I was told at my first appt with 3 independent doctors is that when mold is a factor it must be treated first, prior to starting lyme treatment. So, lyme treatment has now been shelved for me until we get through the rest of testing to determine more of my risk factors related to mold. Especially since we have lab tested and know that I have a partial methylation detox pathway block.
It is important for a treating doctor to know if the patient is among the 25% of the population who may have these various risk complication factors. I guess some LLMDs just treat lyme without really evaluating whether a patient is in the 25% factor, especially critical if the patient has also had water damage exposure.
That is not to suggest that if anyone's LLMD has not done any of this other testing that they aren't being treated properly! For 75% of the population some of this isn't a concern. If you have had long term water damage mold exposure and are in the 25% genetic risk group, then it is a very big deal.
In my case, I think the tipoff to my doctors to evaluate me more cosely was related to being bedridden for the better part of 4 years and a variety of treatments tried (though not lyme related) have not improved my symptoms.
Cantgiveupyet, about testing, there are several mold related tests that reveal different things related to mold illness. I don't yet understand the distinctions well enough but will share with you what I have been told and have read thusfar. Keep in mind though I have only known that mold is a factor for about 3-4 weeks now, so I haven't learned much yet.
The first panel my doctor did was the Esoterix IgE and IgG mold panel which is done through LabCorp. Esoterix is a lab (not just a test name) with its own Esoterix lab form. I don't know exactly what is their relationship to LabCorp. However, I am assuming they are either now owned by LabCorp or subcontracted to them; LabCorp does the blood draw and when my bill arrived in the mail it came directly from LabCorp with their letterhead (not Esoterix). Maybe someone else can comment more about the corporate arrangement between these two labs.
On the Esoterix lab order form there are multitudes of mold tests to select from. The doctor selects which ones he/she wants tested. The ones my doctor selected are the molds known to be involved with water damage, the most health harmful molds.
Common molds exist everywhere in the environment, and many/most are the ones that give us seasonal nasal/sinus allergy type symptoms. While uncomfortable ,those type molds are not life threatening for most of the healthy population.
In contrast, the water damage molds can be extremely dangerous to 25% of the population who have certain risk genetic profiles. There are additional tests to determine if you are in that genetic risk group. Knowing that can guide a mold/lyme literate doctor in structuring your treatment regimen and knowing what to expect. My doctors seem to think that is important in my situation.
There is apparently a whole different approach to treatment when water damage mold is a factor. I don't yet understand all the nuances of this. Only saying what I have been told by 3 different doctors now, which is consistent with each other.
My doctor is doing the genetic risk factor and mycotoxin impact tests through LabCorp. I think Quest may do a couple of the panels, but my doctor seems to feel that most environmental literate doctors prefer to test through LabCorp. I have read that stated in 2 mold books as well. I am sure Quest would disagree and perhaps so might other doctors, who knows. Just saying what I was told and have read. I have no personal opinion about it.
Some of the additional tests my doctor is doing is the MMP9, HLA-DBR, C3a, C4a, MSH. The MMP9 and HLA are genetic marker tests to tell whether I am in the 25% at risk population. One doctor feels stronger the tests should be run, while another doctor says she knows I am in the risk group without doing the testing or I wouldn't be this sick nor would I have the very high antibody response levels on water molds. In her experience, everyone with that high of a level of antibodies is in the high risk genetic group. So, we'll see what the testing shows since the other doctor wants a complete lab assessment.
I think the c3a, c4a may be functionally related to mycotoxin impact.
It sounds important to me that all of us should get an MSH test (whether lyme or mold). This book on mold written by an LLMD who treats both lyme and mold, emphasizes that MSH is very important and frequently overlooked by doctors.
MSH stands for melanocyte stimulating hormones, and can impact a lot of areas of body functioning, most importantly sleep, an area that is typically deregulated with lyme, coinfections, and mold.
It also impacts weight (obesity or thinness), pain levels, memory/cognition, mood, ADD/ADH, coping ability, nerve problems, inflammation, energy, libido, body temperature, dry mouth, excessive urination....lots of things.
Testing MSH, the book says get it tested only at LabCorp and make sure you call the lab in advance to ensure the "trasylol kit" for testing MSH. The doctor who wrote this book says if the lab staff don't know what you are talking about or tell you that you don't need that, find a different lab.
If there is a MSH deficiency (below 35), it can due to about 30 different problems of which lyme, coinfections and mold sickness are among it.
The author of this book, a well known LLMD in FLA who is also a psychiatrist, says that when MSH is deficient it can present risks with impulsive behavior or pleasure seeking behaviors with binge eating, alcohol, drugs, sex, thrill seeking, even work addiction. All a result of the body trying to find an activity that will trigger itself to make more MSH to get the body back into balance again.
The bad news is that bio-identical MSH is not FDA approved, so not available in the US. It is available in China <gasp> and Austrailia has a MSH patch. I don't know if it would be possible to get an MSH through an overseas pharmacy, but that would be very interesting to know, and important to those who are MSH deficient.
The book says MSH levels sometimes return to normal after using CSM. I assume that other binders might have some impact as well, but aren't mentioned.
[ 05-05-2009, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: jam338 ]
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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bejoy
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posted
Hey LittleLymie,
Olive Leaf is often used to fight yeast, molds and fungals. When you kill a fungal it gives off mycotoxins that can make you really sick. That could explain the trip to the ER.
Bad news good news. You found an herbal that will fight some of what you have going on. Now you also need good binders, detox, and drainage.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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CD57
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11749
posted
Thanks JAM, for your thorough reply. This is a very confusing situation and I know you are making your way through it. I just got my LLMD, one of whom is the same as yours, to order the Esoterix panel. I don't know which molds he has checked off yet.
Emla999, it sounds as though what you are saying is that if you have low IGE levels perhaps you are in the 75% of the population who does not have a genetic problem with detoxing mold?
Now I have a question....how does one get tested for MOLD MYCOTOXINS rather than mold antibodies?
Posts: 3528 | From US | Registered: Apr 2007
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emla999/Lyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12606
posted
CD57,
RealTime Labs offers mold mycotoxin testing. It's a urine test (its similar to a urine heavy metals test.)
Also, in regards to IgE levels.I don't know whether IgE levels have anything to do with genetic weaknesses or not. I suppose it could be though. I just don't know .
I was told that elevated IgE antibodies levels to toxic molds mean that you are producing an allergic reaction to those molds. Generally that means runny nose, wheezing, watery eyes etc.. Although, the allergic reaction could be more severe than that.
Elevated IgG antibodies to toxic molds just means that you are constantly being exposed to those toxic molds or that you have been exposed to those toxic molds in the fairly recent past.
You could be exposed to toxic molds and have elevated IgG levels but still have a normal IgE level because some people are not allergic to those molds.
But if your IgG levels are elevated that means that you have been exposed to those toxic molds and this could also mean that you have been exposed to toxic mold mycotoxins.
If your IgG antibody levels are consistently elevated then I would suggest that you also have your mold mycotoxin levels tested through RealTime Labs.
Toxic mold mycotoxins are extremely toxic and they can cause a host of health problems.
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