posted
Hi, a friend of mine was recently bitten by what she identified as a dog tick, i was wondering if anyone know for sure if dog ticks don't carry TBD's, or if it has ever been studied. Also does anyone know of any cases of lyme from a dog tick bite? thanks, Deanne
Posts: 163 | From maine | Registered: Oct 2003
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Melanie Reber
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posted
Hey there Deanne,
There are actually two common "Dog ticks" found in the USA ...
the Ixodes D. variabilis- American Dog tick or Wood tick
and
the Rhipicephalus sanguineus- Brown Dog tick.
BOTH are carriers of disease and have been reported as such.
My best, Melanie
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
I'm pretty sure that I got lyme from a dog tick. I had several deer ticks and a dog tick on me, and one of the deer ticks was engorged; however, I got the classic Lyme rash around the dog tick bite! Hence, though they may be even considerably less likely to carry Lyme than deer ticks, it would seem that it is possible.
The other diseases I got, ehrlicheosis and babesiosis, probably were transmitted by the deer ticks (but again, could have been from the dog tick!. Either kind of tick can feed on a number of different animals, any of which may be infected with any number of tbd's.
So in any case you do indeed have to consider the possibility. How long was it attached? Do you have any doxy on hand, or any artimesia anua? A "prophylactic course" may be worth considering.
I just looked at some web pages, and found that there is an even bigger problem now than there was when I had Lyme! The pages I looked at advised againsy a prophylactic treatment; however, to me it seems the cost and the risk of prophylactic treatment is FAR less than the risk of acquiring a chronic case, for which YEARS of antibiotics would have to be take! And I am far from the only one who has had this type of experience!
There is some kind of fundamerntal breakdown in the way "scientific method" is applied, in the case of Lyme disease. I don'y know whether it's an ego thing, an insurance company- driven phenomenon, or 'politically motivated', but this pseudo scientific denial of Lyme is indeed tragic!
So perhaps the first thing you need to do is find a "lyme literate" physician- but that's no easy task either. Well I guess the most important thing to hope for is that there were no infections. Keep an eye out for the rash-- if you get it you have lyme. But if you don'y. you just don't know. Ehrlicia and Babesia are dangerous in their owm right, too, if you happened to pick up one of those withouyt the lyme.
The best possible luck to you! DaveS
DaveS
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CaliforniaLyme
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posted
It is strange they are called non-infectious re Lyme because they cannot transmit it from one stage of their life to the next- but they can carry Lyme for one stage of life if I remember right-
-------------------- There is no wealth but life. -John Ruskin
All truth goes through 3 stages: first it is ridiculed: then it is violently opposed: finally it is accepted as self evident. - Schopenhauer Posts: 5639 | From Aptos CA USA | Registered: Apr 2005
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Melanie, has it been reported that thay can carry lyme? i know that they can carry other TBD's. thanks.
Daves, my friend said the tick was attached for about 5 hours, not very long, but i have lyme disease and the deer tick was only attached to me for about the same length of time. I also mentioned to her about asking for an antibiotic, i don't know wheather she did or not, i hope she does.
One would think that if a deer tick that has BB and a dog tick fed on the same rodent that it would be passed to the dog tick, does that make sense? thanks Deanne
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Melanie Reber
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posted
Hello Deanne,
Of course the following information on what each tick has been known to carry (taken from www.LymeMemorial.org ) is not for every state all of the time, nor is it complete by any means.
Remember, not all states have conducted adequate sweeps or studies from sweeps ...but these particular diseases have been reported enough to make the cut and to make me cautious.
So, while I have not run across a study that states borrelia has been found in Brown Dog ticks, YET...I do not take that as a guarantee that it can't be found in those ticks along with the other reported diseases. It simply means to ME, that I haven't done enough research yet.
Ixodes D. variabilis- American Dog tick or Wood tick
posted
One would think that if a deer tick that has BB and a dog tick fed on the same rodent that it would be passed to the dog tick, does that make sense? ****************
Makes sense to me! Same thing with fleas or mosquitoes if you ask me!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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lymebytes
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Member # 11830
posted
Yes and they carry co-infections. I am sure it was dog tick(s) that got me extremely sick with LD, Bart and HGE. It is also believed by some that fleas are carriers as well. Take care.
Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
So, if you want to believe the Germantown veterinary Clinic in MD...here is what they have to say re: Rhipicephalus sanguineus- Brown Dog tick or Red Dog tick and Lyme:
``At one time, only the tiny Deer Tick was believed to carry Lyme, but now we know that it can also be transmitted by both the American Dog Tick and the Brown Dog Tick. If you have ticks, don't waste your time trying to identify which ticks they are!''
Found an engorged dog tick on my leg this morning... I forgot to do a tick check last night after walking on my lawn.
Hopefully I have some orals left so I can take them and wait until after the weekend to see a doc.
-------------------- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.+++ Diagnosed with Lyme in 2005. Suffered for years before that. Still treating/fighting it. Son diagnosed with Lyme and Babesia in 2007. Son diagnosed with Asperger's in 2011. Posts: 40 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2008
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Found an engorged dog tick on my leg this morning... I forgot to do a tick check last night after walking on my lawn.
Hopefully I have some orals left so I can take them and wait until after the weekend to see a doc.
-------------------- I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.+++ Diagnosed with Lyme in 2005. Suffered for years before that. Still treating/fighting it. Son diagnosed with Lyme and Babesia in 2007. Son diagnosed with Asperger's in 2011. Posts: 40 | From Maryland | Registered: Jun 2008
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kreynolds
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posted
My dog got Lyme from a Dog Tick...... who isn't to say that humans cannot get Lyme as well????
We actually see MANY Dog Ticks... I wouldn't trust any ticks, thats just my opinion.....
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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nefferdun
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posted
I live in Montana where there are no deer ticks so it was thought for years to be free of lyme disease. I was bitten by a wood tick, same as a dog tick, and I got lyme and bartonella. I had the EM rash and got sick immediately afterwards. The doctors dismissed me saying there is no lyme here. Two years later I found an article which had been printed in a local newspaper back in 2004 that said wood ticks here carry "a cousin to lyme" and Rocky Mt Lab is trying to identify it. I called the state epidemiologist who told me it will not test because it is an unidentified strain. So absolutely, yes, dog ticks carry lyme!
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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kreynolds
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posted
nefferdun,
My thoughts exactly....
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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Melanie Reber
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posted
Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis- American Dog tick, Eastern Wood tick or Wood tick
Rhipicephalus sanguineus- Brown Dog tick or Red Dog tick
....
Human Granulocytic Anaplasmosis (HGA) is caused by the bacterium Anaplasma phagocytophilum. It is contracted with the bite of infected ticks (Amblyomma americanum, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes scapularis, Ixodes spinipalpis and Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis). It has also been documented to transmit congenitally, through blood transfusion and through direct contact with blood or respiratory secretions.
Human Granulocytic Ehrlichiosis (HGE) is caused by the bacterium Ehrlichia ewingii. It is typically contracted with the bite of infected ticks (Amblyomma americanum, Amblyomma maculatum, Ixodes scapularis, Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus), however, it has also been transmitted through contact with blood of fresh venison.
Babesia is caused by several species of protozoan parasites. It is known to transfer through blood transfusion and ingestion, organ transplant and by congenital means. Transmission also occurs with the bite of infected ticks (Boophilus annulatus, Boophilus decoloratus, Boophilus microplus, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes scapularis, Ixodes Dermacentor nitens and Rhipicephalus sanguineus).
Bartonella is caused by several species of bacteria. It is known to be transmitted by vectors such as fleas, biting flies, body louse, mosquitoes and ticks (Argasidae Carios kelleyi, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes ricinus, Ixodes scapularis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus).
Colorado Tick Fever is caused by the Colorado tick fever virus, a member of the Coltivirus genera. Some cases have been associated with exposures to the virus in laboratory settings and transfusion associated cases have been reported. Typically, it is contracted with the bite of infected ticks (Argasidae Otobius megnini, Ixodes Dermacentor andersoni, Ixodes Dermacentor occidentalis, Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus)
Lyme disease is caused by the bacterium Borrelia burgdorferi. While it is still the most common vector-borne disease in the country, it is also transmitted in other ways. Infection occurs through blood transfusion, organ transplant, casual contact and by congenital means.
Typically, it is contracted with the bite of infected ticks (Amblyomma americanum, Amblyomma maculatum, Haemaphysalis leporispalustris, Ixodes affinis, Ixodes angustus, Ixodes cookei, Ixodes dentatus, Ixodes neotomae, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes ricinus, Ixodes scapularis, Ixodes spinipalpis, Ixodes texanus, Ixodes Dermacentor albipictus, Ixodes Dermacentor andersoni, Ixodes Dermacentor occidentalis and Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis), however it has also been contracted through infected biting flies, mosquitoes, mites and fleas.
Q fever is caused by the rickettsia Coxiella burnetii. Because infected animals shed this organism in urine, feces, birth products, and milk; transmission occurs by inhalation of dust, ingestion of infected milk and the bite of infected ticks (Amblyomma americanum, Argasidae Otobius megnini, Ixodes Dermacentor andersoni, Ixodes Dermacentor occidentalis, Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus). Infection can also be transmitted congenitally.
Rocky Mountain spotted fever is caused by the bacterium Rickettsia rickettsii. Typically, it is contracted with the bite of infected ticks (Amblyomma americanum, Amblyomma cajennense, Amblyomma maculatum, Argasidae Ornithodoros parkeri, Argasidae Otobius megnini, Haemaphysalis leporispalustris, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes Dermacentor andersoni, Ixodes Dermacentor occidentalis, Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus), but has also been acquired through blood transfusion and contamination of the skin with tick blood or feces.
Tick paralysis is a loss of muscle function that results from an unidentified protein toxin in tick saliva (Amblyomma americanum, Amblyomma maculatum, Amblyomma rotundatum, Argasidae Otobius megnini, Ixodes brunneus, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes Dermacentor andersoni, Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis and Rhipicephalus sanguineus). Ticks attach to the skin to feed on blood. It is during this feeding process that the toxin enters the bloodstream. The paralysis is ascending; meaning it starts in the lower body and moves up and death by respiratory failure may result.
Tularemia is caused by the organism Francisella tularensis. It is a highly infectious, invasive and potentially dangerous pathogen. So much so that the CDC has it listed as a possible bio-weapon.
Tularemia has many modes of transmission. Typically, contraction occurs with the bite of an infected vector such as the deerfly, the horsefly, the mosquito, the flea or the tick (Amblyomma americanum, Amblyomma maculatum, Argasidae Otobius megnini, Haemaphysalis leporispalustris, Ixodes pacificus, Ixodes Dermacentor andersoni, Ixodes Dermacentor occidentalis and Ixodes Dermacentor variabilis). In addition, it is transmitted through contaminated water, food and soil.
...
These are just the most common TBDs - there are more infections to be found in Dog ticks...
"Absence of Proof is not Proof of Absence." - William Cowper
Discussions on Transmission always include a healthy portion of debate. That debate can be a real help or hindrance, depending on your point of view. Personally, I think that as long as the debate remains open, it is never a negative thing...it is only at that time, that the debate closes, that we also risk closing our minds to new viewpoints.
It is important here to make a clear distinction between Proven Transmission and Possibility of Transmission...as this seems to stay in the heart of the debate. Proven Transmission is basically a reproducible scientific experiment. Where as Possibility of Transmission is basically a theory based on other factors not yet scientifically reproduced and published.
I use the qualifier 'YET' because it is my great confidence that eventually, funding will be acquired, studies will be conducted and what we have experienced as TBD patients will be validated scientifically in the laboratory.
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Starfall1969
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posted
My son was bitten by a dog tick about 3 yeara ago.
My doc told me not to worry about it since the dog ticks don't carry Lyme.
He hasn't had any definite Lyme symptoms, but that still sticks in my mind, and I worry about it.
Especially considering all my family doctor "knows" about Lyme...
Posts: 1682 | From Dillsburg, PA | Registered: Sep 2008
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adamm
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posted
Absolutely--that's how I got it. And you can get it from mosquitos, biting flies, and chiggers as well.
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disturbedme
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posted
Starfall - I was bitten when I was around 14 years old and didn't get extremely ill until I was around 23-24ish years old. So you can be infected but the lyme and other infections are lying dormant in the body and then they decide to come out whenever is best, which is usually when the body is under some sort of stress and the immune system is depressed.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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kreynolds
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posted
disturbedme:
My doc told me thats what happenend in my case. That I had gotten bit, it lied dormant and than WHAM!
That's why a lot of our cases are so severe, they go undetected and by the time they do, if they do, you have Late Stage Lyme......
Never really beleived it, but now I hear it more frequent so I can relate.
-------------------- Diagnosed CDC + 6/2007
Quest: + IGG Bands 18,23,39,41,58,66 and 93.
Quest: + IGM Bands 23,39
Quest: + Bartonella (B.Henselea & B. Quintana),+ Babesia, and + Mycoplasma and Lyme-Induced Addisons Disease
+ Biofilm blood test 12/2010 Posts: 1185 | From New York | Registered: Apr 2008
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'Kete-tracker
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posted
bb, From all my research on the topic, the typical brownish American dog tick CAN [carry Lyme], but they're not anywhere's as efficient at transfering it into a new host.
Not to say they don't do a pretty good job of trnsferring other serious pathogens, such as RMSF & Ehrlichiosis.
I agree w/others here... if any tick's "engorged", play it cautious and get approprote abx for 4 weeks atleast, especially in TBD-endemic areas. And keep an eye on & around the bite.
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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Geneal
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posted
In my vets office there is a poster of all of the types
Of ticks found in the US and which state (by color code)
Each one is located. All, according to the poster,
Can be a carrier and transmit Lyme.
Luckily here in Louisiana we have all four types.
Sigh.
No doubt my dogs Lyme was from a dog tick.
Hugs,
Geneal
Posts: 6250 | From Louisiana | Registered: Oct 2006
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
Think of a tick as a gun would you take the chance its not loaded if it was aimed at you? Not me the only reason the studies say they dont carry it is because those dog ticks were either not infected or they didnt no how to actually grow it in a petri dish to check .
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