Topic: What is the protocol(s) for Artemesinin for Babesia?
Rumigirl
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What is/are the protocols for Artemesinin? I realize there may be more than one protocol. I think some pulse it, 3 days on, etc.? And some may be continuous. And is there a consensus about which is better---continuous vs pulsing?
And what about the dosage for Allergy Research's Super Artemesinin? I think that is a really good brand and formulation, right? Thank you.
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Keebler
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Be sure to read the product information sheet for the brand you listed:
Are you being treated by a LLMD or a LL ND? Or are you on a specific protocol, otherwise?
There are many ways to use Artemisinin but it's best to have a doctor who knows your case, specifically, work up a protocol for you.
Artemisinin should NEVER be used alone. It requires combination therapy. If you are also being treated for lyme, some of that may overlap.
And, as artemisinin uses the Cytochrome P-450 liver (detox) pathway, this can be hard on some patients.
Be sure to take your liver support supplements such as milk thistle. I think NAC (N-Acetyl-Cysteine) is best to protect the liver, too.
Beta carotene can also help lessens some of the P-450 liver stress when taking artemisinin. Never take synthetic vitamin A, but the natural form, Beta Carotene. Carrot juice is excellent, too, as are many greens.
The International Lyme and Associated Diseases Society (ILADS) provides a forum for health science professionals to share their wealth of knowledge regarding the management of Lyme and associated diseases.
Keebler
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Oh, at least at first, I'd take artemisinin in the middle of a meal - and on a day when you don't have to go out. This is always a good idea when beginning anything new.
With supplements, it is also a good idea to begin with just ONE a day to see how you do.
You can also do a search for past threads on this subject. There have been many. As for pulsing or not - much depends on what your doctor thinks AND on what other meds you are taking.
Rumigirl
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Keebler, thank you. This is for a client, who is undergoing treatment for TBD. However, I have strongly felt all along that she is being inadequately treated, and we've gone over that a lot. She's seeing a supposed LLMD and his PA, but still, I think the treatment has been seriously lacking. I"ve advised her to go elsewhere (and recommended a good LLMD), but she keeps hanging in there at the current office. And doesn't want to take a day off of work to see the other LLMD (sigh . . I know how important this is, but you can lead a horse to water . . . .).
Anyway, her case has been screaming Babesia to me all along, serious air hunger, etc. But the dr hasn't been addressing it or recognizing it.
She wants to take Artemesinin "for parasites." I don't know if that is a bad idea, short of comprehensive Babesia treatment. I wouldn't think so, but Dr. S in his book says something about waiting a week after starting Babesia treatment to take the Artemesinin, so it doesn't develop resistance. So I'm not sure. It's frustrating.
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Rumigirl
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Hmmm, after looking at the Allergy Research info, I'm thinking maybe it's not a good idea, since I can't monitor her liver enzymes. I do know that I've given it to clients as part of a a parasite cleanse with no problems, but maybe I should err on the side of caution. Esp because it wouldn't be a comprehensive Babesia treatment.
I wish she would take as much responsibility about her treatment as I have been trying to! I think she thinks she is, but I don't (of course I can't say it that way to her).
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Keebler
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Rumi,
Are you a health care professional? What kind? You mention giving this to other clients . . . just wondering.
It's so hard when we know others who may not have all the pieces of the puzzle.
Can you give her books or articles so that you are not responsible for her treatment? that way she can read it form the experts and can then better understand how to assess her current treatment or the importance of another expert evaluation.
As many can feel really awful with artemisinin, personally, I'd not want to guide someone in its use. Even if she (or ANYONE) is taking it for "parasites" since it has an anti-protozoa effect, if babesia is present, taking ONLY that can create resistance and treatment to come after this may not be effective.
If someone suspects babesia, IMO, they should not take artemisinin until they can be properly assessed for it &/or a combined treatment protocol can be implemented.
This is really important. If her doctor has not addressed that, has she ASKED him?
Whatever else she does on her own will likely interfere with the treatment from her current LLMD. It's really best that she communicate with him and if she changes that around, she need to be honest with that doctor about it - in advance. He may have reasons for the way he is doing things or may not be ready to have her to something else.
But, if she thinks his treatment is inadequate, she should not be adding to the protocol without talking to him first. If she changes her protocol, she should leave the doctor's practice as it's not doing either one of them any good, in that case. It puts them both at risk.
Rumigirl
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Member # 15091
posted
Thank you, Keebler; your help, as always, is invaluable! I think you're right; it's not a good idea without a comprehensive treatment for Babesia.
I've been a Natural Health Care practitioner for 33 years, doing metabolic rebalancing programs through Metabolic Typing, nutrition, detoxification, herbs, etc. I also do Polarity Therapy, CranioSacral Therapy, Deep-Tissue work, etc. (and taught it all for years). And work with Ondamed, a Pulsed Electro-Magnetic Frequency device that is FDA approved for pain and other problems (that is what I'm doing with her---Ondamed). I have a Massage Therapy license. But, of course, I'm not an MD, and don't pretend to be.
She seems to be very slow on the uptake about going a better LLMD. She seemed to get it recently, but then went instead to the PA in the office, who is better at TBD treatment than the MD. But still not comprehensive treatment in my book. She even has the book Cure Unknown. I think the disease has seriously affected her thinking, although I didn't know her beforehand, so it's hard to be sure. Thank you again.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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Rumi,
Well, with your background it seems reasonable (especially in the absence of good LLMDs) to share some of your knowledge.
It's always a risk, though, because if you don't know someone well, or don't know if they might also chase a supplement with a Big Mac and a beer, they may blame a supplement where the blame may not be accurate. I'm always a bit concerned about that, even if suggesting supplements to some friends - and then they mention they finished a bottle of wine with dinner. Ooops.
If she is seeing you for the kind of work you do, she obviously is on the good self-care page and I do hope she finds what she needs to make progress.
Maybe her doctor is hesitant to take her treatment up a notch just yet for some reason.
I think it is only fair to have a proper discussion with the doctor before going off on one's one. But, unless a patient is communicative about that, one will never know if it's that or if they need a different doctor.
--
Singleton's book may be a good choice. It really hits home that this is a complex task but also his presentation is easy to read and very well-organized.
--------------------------
This book, by an ILADS member LLMD, holds great information about treatments options and support measures:
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
cryptolepsis is much easier to handle than artemesinin, it seems, and it's a more 'natural' product with all the different constituents of the plant. Taking artemesia annua tincture rather than artemesinin might also be another approach- it's going to have fewer side effects though it'll have lower dosing than artemesinin. In terms of resistance, artemesia annua MIGHT be a bit more like a combination therapy than the artemesia derivative alone.
If you want to do a prescriptionless approach to babesia, those two tinctures in combination and in high doses is what I'd do.
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