posted
I have the pathway that art is metabolized through. Does this pathway also include the herb artemisia/wormwood?
Thank you.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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Do you mean that you have a problem with the pathway? What kind of problem and what kind of tests were done.
I don't know about the raw herb you asked about (artemisia/wormwood) itself regarding C P-450, but the concentrated artemisinin is metabolized through the Cytochrome P-450 pathway.
Which are you wondering about: artemisinin, artmesia or wormwood? Do you have a bottle of something.
With the right kind of liver support, depending you your liver diagnosis, you might still be able to take artemisinin or artemesia. However, that would depend on how deficient your specific enzymes are. You would need specific support detailed in the thread below. If you can avoid it, though, it would be best to go another route.
Do you have Babesia? If not, there are many other herbs you can take. Even with babesia, there are others to consider and a combination protocol is required, no single ingredient is enough.
posted
Keebler, Thank you so much for responding. You have been a lifesaver for me on this issue. I cannot thank you enough for all the info you have shared.
I had the detoxigenomic panel from Genova labs. I have a polymorphism on the CYP2C19 pathway and thE CYP1B1 pathway. I believe it is the C19 pathway that the artimisinin goes through.
I have three doctors who work with me. None familiar with this testing but willing to learn. One ordered it for me.
I do have babesisa but am also needing to take herbs for colon, parasite cleanse which all seem to contain wormwood.
I'm not sure how to find out how enzyme deficient I am. I'll re read that thread. All the other Cytochrome p 450 pathways were OK.
I know I was an emotional wreck after taking art for a few days, but also was on minocin until went low dose which was wonderful, and zith which is not on these pathways.
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
yes, artemisinin does need some of those P450 enzymes, but I can't recall which ones. If you google "artemisinin P450" it would probably tell you.
Then, I would just adjust your dosage based on symptoms. Just take what you can handle, even if it is only 1/6 of a capsule.
I used to open them up and dump some out.
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posted
What are the consequences of taking artemisinin if you have problems with the P450 pathway?
I haven't gotten any genetic testing to find out, but I do get a lot of unusual neuro effects on artemisinin.
Not sure if it is the art itself..or the Babesia and/or possible unidentified protozoa it is hitting.
Any ideas???
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
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R62,
Well, you are light years ahead of me. My testing was dozen over a dozen years ago and is not at all that precise.
Eagle,
it would be hard to say as everyone with any sort of porphryia can be quit different from the next person. And, it can also vary from time to time for anyone, too.
One clue is that ANYTHING that tells you it is too much to handle should be stopped. That is what the porphyria doctors all say.
Of course, infections must still be treated as infections can trigger or exasperate porphyria.
Eagle, you also asked about consequences. That depends.
Porphryia can be fatal. Or it can cause seizures or symptoms similar to a herx . . . or just a headache. It is very hard to predict. That is why protection and liver support is so important.
I have 2 kinds of porphryia and have taken art. - various kinds. (Not knowing at first that this is a C P-450)
All but Hepapro triggered more severe seizures than I'd ever had. I did okay with Hepapro, as part of an overall protocol.
see the link above for more details. Still, this is a very perplexing situation and few doctors know about porphrins, etc.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
eagle, it would probably just mean you would need to play around with the dose (maybe reduce it greatly) to find the right dosage for you. Or, you may just realize that it is something you cannot handle in any dose.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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The problem, other than not knowing for sure which if any form of artesmia is OK.. is how to tell a hex reaction from a porphyria reaction.
I am keeping beta carotene on had and ordering ther herb you mentioned, Keebler.. and again.. I cannot thank you enough for this info.
I wonder if honey will be good for glucose or an electroylte drink with glucose? Can we orer glucose in oral form from somewhere?
When I "herx" on artimisinin or minocin or zith, I turn into an emotional basket case.. I am not sure if this is a herx or porphyria (my sister did test positive for this years ago when she was her sickest, so that gives me more cause for consideration).
Zith is not on my list to watch out for and I am not sure of minocin, but zith scares me more. Low dose minocin was very helpful. Any higher and I was a basket case again.
I took flagyl for 12 days and it took me months to reciver from it. On it, I was fine.. flue llike herx.. but off it I got worse and worse, tremors, parenthsias, peripherial neuropathy. I think it was glutathione that pulled me out.
How much betacarotene? I just took 25,000 mg. Thats what I had in my stash.
I'll look into heapro. I wonder what form he uses.
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posted
Keebler.. so the enzyme is indicated by the specific pathway. OK.
That test also has other pathways such as mnethylation, acetylation, gluathione, oxidative stress, and I THINK it covers the cytochrome pathways covered by the Genelex test.
I just wish the list of drugs included more info on herbs. Something I am taking is setting me off badly and I cant tell if it is a herx or reaction to the herb.
I am newly taking HH, quina. The others I have taken before and no neuro problems like you can scrape me off the floor I am so depressed and anxious.
Posts: 861 | From USA | Registered: Dec 2008
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Once you are pyloluric.. is it still only the drugs that take the pathway that is polymorphic for you or at that point is it any drug that is metabolized though any cytochrome p450 pathway?
Thank you all.
I get go slow and small and see what happens and some drugs, herbs are just not gonig to work.
Keep beta carotene, glucose of soem form, the herb Keebler mentioned .. schizandra on hand AND support the liver with milk thistle, possibly glutathione, NAC possibly ??? any others?
Regular liver cleanses?
I'm beginning to wonder if rife is a better option. The drugs, herbs are scaring me.
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