Topic: C'est moi... with another Quick Q...Thyroid meds...
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Good morning,
OK, I'll make this short and sweet!
I'm supposed to begin Armour thyroid and am needing to know if it needs to be taken away from other meds or not.
I'm currently on Mepron, Zith, Art and Amoxy. All BID. Then I have a few supps during the day and a few night meds for sleep. Oh and there are the Asthma meds at odd times.
I don't see any interactions, but am curious if Armour needs to be taken away from any of these, or if it would be better taken at a certain time during the day?
Thanks so much in advance!!! M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
Hi Melanie,
I was recently switched from Synthroid (which I'd been on for years and my body loved) to Armour over a period of several months due to low T3. Recently I've added back in some Synthroid per the doctor because my body is crashing on Armour only. But most Lyme patients do much better on Armour alone or T3 alone - I don't, makes me anxious or tired.
Anyway, I was taking my full dose of Armour once in the morning, on an empty stomach, before breakfast, because that's how Synthroid is taken.
But one of my thyroid/CFS/Lyme doctors said that Armour is shorter acting than Synthroid and to split the dose into two - one in the morning, one in the afternoon, etc.to try to keep my stamina up.
I don't know what your instructions are, but I was never told about any possible interaction and it seems to be OK to take at various times of the day. I wasn't told to take my vitamins a couple of hours later like with Synthroid, but the reality is, I take thyroid meds on an empty stomach first thing, and take my vitamins with breakfast about an hour later - I'm not strict about it.
I also did some interaction checking on various medication websites and I never saw Armour as a problem with anything I'm on.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks so much Jill!!!
I just happen to have the meds that I can actually split the dose in half. Too late for the morning 1/2 dose I suppose, because I just ate and did the yellow goop thing.
So, I guess I will start with the evening 1/2 dose before eating.
Hmmm, my reverse T3 is actually the issue here- too high for doc's comfort zone. I tried to read all the tech speak on the handout and it swished way over my head. But what I did get out of it is that sometimes Armour is used in Hyper-folks to help regulate that back down.
SO fascinating... just wish I understood the tech side a bit more.
Anyway, that was exactly what I needed to know, so THANK YOU very much!!! M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I heard something to the effect that low reverse T3 can be treated with slow-release T3, not Armour. I never tested for reverse T3 so this is totally second-hand information, but that's what I heard the endocrinologist Dr R says about some Lyme patients. I'm trying to figure out the Naturethroid/Armour thing myself- I'm on it, I THINK it's helped some kinds of fatigue, but I can't quite figure out if that's what did it or not.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
(Edit: I originally said something about low reverse T3 and I may have been totally wrong, judging by the responses below.)
I heard something to the effect that low reverse T3 can be treated with slow-release T3, not Armour. I never tested for reverse T3 so this is totally second-hand information, but that's what I heard the endocrinologist Dr R says about some Lyme patients. I'm trying to figure out the Naturethroid/Armour thing myself- I'm on it, I THINK it's helped some kinds of fatigue, but I can't quite figure out if that's what did it or not.
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Hey there Maria,
Actually my rT3 is high, so I'm not sure how that relates to your info. But...I so hear you. It is ALL very confusing to me.
Especially when my fatigue pendulum is constantly swinging anyway depending on which meds I am on at any given time.
My adrenals are whacked so that really screws with my energy levels. Much too high in cortisol and low in insulin. So, I am either bouncing of the walls or crashing hard.
And if on Doxy, as I have been the last couple of weeks, I have zero energy high cortisol or not.
So, this will be really interesting to try and figure out what is caused by the current med, what is caused by the current prominent disease and what is caused by the new Armour.
Definitely not boring! Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jill E.
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9121
posted
I've had two contradictory reverse T3 readings - one too low, one too high - the CFS doctor (he treats Lyme, too, but I only see him for thyroid/adrenal stuff) says we are usually too high in reverse T3. I'll PM you with his website that has a lot of articles.
I'm like you, high cortisol, whacked adrenals, now dealing with Babs air hunger - I just feel like I'm getting worse and worse after years of TBD treamtent. Ugh!
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Yes, we seem to live in the land of contradictions. I know my PM box is full and I don't have the energy to clean it now, but you can email, if you don't mind.
I too am dealing with the Babs air stuff, severe asthma, etc., etc. We just keep finding more things going wrong to treat, so the quest continues.
It is so hard to hold a positive attitude after so long, I do understand that completely.
When I was first diagnosed, I was just SO happy to know what was wrong... that way I could fix it and be done with it. But I knew after a bit of research that after years of not getting a diagnosis, it would take time.
I read somewhere that the time frame would be 1-4 years. So, just to be safe I set my sights on that 4 year mark. When that came and went, and then the 5th year, and then the 6th...
and then more stuff, new stuff, started happening... well, yes, it is difficult to keep that Pollyanna view.
I still remember one day back in 2005, that I woke up and said to my friend, that I was staying with at the time, with joy in my voice and choking back tears... "Nothing hurts today!"
I was so elated, I even came here to write about it! That was my day, the one and only. I try to remember that if it happened before, it surely can happen again.
klutzo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 5701
posted
Hi Melanie, I've been on a low dose of Armour for over six years. Meds are not the problem here, mineral supplements are.
You need to make sure your mineral supplements and foods high in minerals are taken at least four hours away from the thyroid med or they inhibit absorption of the med.
Since I take mineral supps. with every meal and at bedtime, and eat lots of calcium rich foods, I let my irritable bladder help me out with this! That constant peeing has to have a silver lining somewhere ;-).
When I wake up between 2-3 am to pee, I take my Armour thryoid then. I take it all at once, because my weak adrenals cause heart symptoms if I take another dose later in the day, and this way I can sleep through the symptoms and avoid conflicts with supps.
I have high blood pressure, so I can't tolerate most of the really good adrenal fixes, and the adrenal supps. I can take have not helped much.
I have way more energy late in the day anyway,and sometimes feel "wired" in the evening, while I drag in the mornings, so taking it all at once works for me.
I had the opposite experience, in that a Synthroid dose equivalent to my Armour dose caused my TSH to rise a whole point, so I went back to a doctor who would give me Armour.
Good luck in finding what works for you,
klutzo
Posts: 1269 | From Clearwater, Florida, USA | Registered: May 2004
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I might have been totally wrong about the reverse t3 thing I mentioned above. Sorry!
I'll edit my post.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks for the additional info Jill and for your input Klutzo. This really illustrates just how different we all are with these diseases and what it takes to fix them.
Now... I'm not sure when to take the darn things, because I do add in additional calcium and trace minerals twice in the daytime to try and help with cramping at night. And I HAVE to eat with the Mepron BID.
Hmmm, maybe first thing in the am with coffee and last thing at night around midnight-ish? But that only gives a 4-5 hour time frame in between doses. Would that be alright?
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Lymeorsomething
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Member # 16359
posted
Yeah, high RT3 can become a problem (see Wilson's Syndrome). Keep in mind there are little to no studies about Wilson's Syndrome and it is considered controversial.
However, anecdotely many have benefited from T3 only therapy. This has to be done carefully though as one can go hyper fast with too much T3...
It can also set you up for a crash if you happen to forget your meds as there is little T4 in the body to convert to T3...
Armour will not necessarily help tremendously if you have high Rt3 because it does contain some T4 which gets converted to RT3 (if a strong tendency is present)...
If your RT3 is exceptionally high though, a course of T3 only may be a good experiment if done carefully and through the right doc...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
Hey Mel, my endo, who is also a professor of
Medicine told me not to take my thyroid meds 4 hrs.
either way of my meds. It is causing Mal
absorption. I am better for doing this.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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'Kete-tracker
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Member # 17189
posted
BEST to take on empty stomach just a bit away (10 minutes+) from any other meds. Before any substantial food for sure, for best absorbtion. Most just pop it upon rising w/a 1/2 glass of H2O. Splitting the Armour dose up helps a bit for some folk. Not req'd though.
Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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Melanie Reber
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 3707
posted
Thanks Lady of the Pines and Kete-tracker. I just popped the first 1/2 dose w/ coffee. So, I won't eat again for at least 3-4 hours.
I also took the 1/2 dose late last night...so, I think this system might work out.
However... I awoke in the night in a sweat and was up for a few hours with horrid 'restroom time'...and again this am upon rising. So, I'm not sure this has anything to do with the Armour, but something sure has gotten to me.
I'm very prone to this issue anyway when taking new meds that don't quite agree with me, always have been.
The only really new things I have added w/in the last few days have been Amoxy, Glutathione creme and Armour.
I've been on Amoxy tons before, but not anytime recently. So, the only really new things to my body are the Glutathione and Armour.
This same thing happened to me when I attempted to add a liquid form of Glut last month. I had to discontinue it after a few days as I could NOT leave the house for 4 days. As soon as I stopped it, the issue resolved.
Goodness... why does everything have to be so complicated?
Hey Lymeor, I started reading up on Wilson's last night... and yes, talk about controversy! While I DO exhibit most of those symptoms, especially low body temp... I have to wonder if this syndrome is just a 'named' bunch of symptoms that most of us exhibit?
I also read up on Grave's disease when I first got my thyroid results, because the high rT3 also points to that condition. That one actually did seem to fit my symptom profile much closer than Wilson's.
Having said that... I honestly think that many of us could fall into either one or both of these categories, so again, it is really confusing. That is not to say that we don't have one or the other, or in some cases, possibly both.
Especially when the adrenals are skewed along with a thyroid issue. Now add in a cluster of TBDs that come and go and nothing seems to remain consistent. For instance, I have been spiking fevers on almost a daily basis.
When my base temp usually ranges around 97 something (but has gotten as low as 94.6), and I get a reading of a high 99 something...that is a fever for me. And when it goes over 100, I really feel awful.
We really don't know why this is happening, but can only surmise that I have been exposed to a relapsing fever Borrelia too. This is highly probable because I was bitten constantly over a 19 year period in CO by every kind of tick imaginable. And we know of at least 30 tick species in CO!
Anyway... just wanted to give an update and thank each of you again for your most valuable input! M
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Sammi
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Member # 110
posted
Hi Melanie. I take Armour and Cytomel which is a T3 med. I believe it is best to take it away from food.
I keep mine by the bed and take it first thing in the morning. I take mine sublinqually (which is dissolving it under the tongue). From what I understand, this eliminates any possible interactions. Check with your doctor or pharmacist if you want to try this.
I hope it helps you.
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posted
Yes, agree with Sammi. Sublingual will make life easier.
Also, another wrinkle: Armour thyroid has been in short supply for some time now. Evidently the FDA is checking into stability issues. There are other types, have no info on them. Wondering if this is a thing that is characteristic of thyroid meds of all types. The synthetics like synthroid have had these issues in the past.
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
Thanks so much Sammi and Lou!
Unfortunately, (or fortunately depending on the viewpoint)I have plenty of the regular Armour, so I won't be changing that anytime soon, even if there is a better way.
However, when this runs out, I will most certainly check into the sublingual alternative... for as I understand it, one needs to stay on this stuff for life??!!!
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Lymeorsomething
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Melanie, I believe they are talking about the "regular" Armour. You can simply dissolve the tablet in your mouth sublingually.
Some bite it a few times and then let it dissolve.
It's not really too important to worry about strengths of the meds as long as you run tests every so often, checking not just TSH but also free T3 and T4...and also at times RT3, total T3 and T4...
I have found Synthroid to being very consistent of late...and my blood values have been very consistent as well...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
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"Melanie, I believe they are talking about the "regular" Armour. You can simply dissolve the tablet in your mouth sublingually."
Really? In that case, this IS doable! Oh My Gosh... you guys are amazing! Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Melanie Reber
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Member # 3707
posted
OK, so here's another question I have been pondering...
My cat, Bob has been ill too. He was exposed over the last 9 years to the very same conditions I have been.
He has been ill before and has undergone extensive Doxy therapy. But recently was acting very ill once more.
After his vet visit last month, and the blood work came back... many things were off. But the main issue was his thyroid! WAY high. The normal T4 range for a kitty is 0.5 to 5.8. Bob's was 7.9!
So, HIS doc just spouts off a simple med, Methimazole, 5mg to be dosed at 2.5mg per day.
After one month, we re-did his labs and his number dropped by a third (can't remember it now), but the vet was very pleased, but still not content. So, we doubled the dose to 2.5mg BID.
So, my question is... why was this so simple for Bob and not for us?
Are we over complicating things? OR Are the vets simplifying things?
Posts: 7052 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2003
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Sammi
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Member # 110
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Hi Melanie. The regular Armour tablets can be taken sublingually. Place it under your tongue and let it dissolve. It can take 15 minutes or so depending on your dose. I take mine this way first thing in the morning. You may want to ask your doctor if it is okay.
I think many vets are more knowledgeable than many doctors are, especially regarding tick-borne diseases.
I hope Bob feels better soon!
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Jill E.
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I've been swallowing Armour with water just the way I do with Synthroid. I didn't know you could do it sublingually. I'll have to ask my many doctors who are chiming in on my thyroid issues what the best way is to do it. But I'll try sublingual- maybe I'll get a better boost from it.
Jill
-------------------- If laughter is the best medicine, why hasn't stand-up comedy cured me? Posts: 1773 | From San Diego | Registered: Apr 2006
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Lymeorsomething
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The sublingual way is especially advocated by those on the Stop the Thyroid Madness website... I've never noticed a significant difference personally in doing it this way but to each their own...
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sammi
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I don't think taking Armour sublingually affects the potency, it just prevents interactions with food, supplements, and/or meds.
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