aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Hi there everyone!
Well, I started the Magic Five. Went and bought everything yesterday at the Vitamin Shoppe plus some extra stuff.
So here's what I'm taking. Gaba 750 mg.-once at night for sleep plus one chewable Cal/Mag/VitD.
A multivitamin called Mega-Vites 75 and DHEA 50 mg. during the day.
For those of you that don't know, the employee/bodybuilder at the store told me not to take Arginine with any other supplements including the Proline and Lysine.
So, I take my L-Arginine 500 mg. first in the a.m. wait an hour and take a Mega-Vite, Cal/Mag/VitD, Active C, Green Tea Extract and DHEA with breakfast.
Couple of hours later on an emply stomach I take L-Proline/L-Lysine 500 mg dual tablet.
Feel dizzy, headachey and tired. Also my appetites off.
Also I haven't been on antibiotics for a couple of years now so I've been trying to find something that I could do for the Bart and residual Lyme symptoms that I exhibit.
I also use a far-infrared light box that I bought in conjunction with all treatment that I've had so far, either oral antibiotics or alternative homeopathy.
Hoping to hear from either Marnie, or anyone else that's trying this out.
Joann
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6172 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
O.K. Think maybe the GABA is an appetite suppressant or one of the amino acids.
Also read to take the amino's at night.
On an empty stomach.
This is gonna work out better for me because I think I'm having a reaction to the L-Arginine.
Makes me wonder why the heck this is. L-Arginine is in a ton of bodybuilding formulas and I'm sure it doesn't make people sick (herx).
Marnie is onto something.
It's hard to describe what I feel when I take the L-Arginine. But within like 30 minutes I feel a slight 'tingling' in my muscles.
Then I feel it in my head and ears, and feel slightly drunk and herxy.
Am gonna Google some of these supplements individually and see what I can come up with and will post it here.
Guniea Pig signing off.....
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6172 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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nenet
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13174
posted
Is it necessary to start them all at once? How can you know which one is doing which/having what effect?
That would drive me nuts trying to figure it all out. Pretty much impossible to tell I would reckon - unless the whole point is to have them all work synergistically (ugh, that word is awful isn't it? ), and not singularly. You know, the whole being larger than the sum of its parts...
I hope it helps you though!! Good luck. Glad to see you around here again, too.
posted
hi just wondering if prior to supplementing if you had L-Arginine levels checked? I ask because I have read rently that it can be very high for some of us.
If I am recalling correctly it said high arginine can contribute to an imbalance in cytokines(??) which would increase inflammation I think. I am not a medical professional and only repeating what I read, please research further and don't rely on just this.
Arginine was very high in my test results along with one other amino acid that I can't think of right now; severe brain fog. The rest were low.
Just letting you know in case your symptoms worsen. It could be the arginine maybe having a counter effect??
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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gemofnj
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15551
posted
which ones are the magic five and what do they do??
Posts: 1127 | From atlantic city, nj | Registered: May 2008
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Be VERY careful with this. I did it a few days and got very ill at low doses. Marnie said they work synergistically. She also said NOT NOT NOT to take Abx or do other treatments as the herxes are brutal. I learned the hard way.
I wish she'd come back to follow-up on her idea more. She seemed so excited about this theory and no longer posts here. I'm interested to see where it goes. It obviously does something!
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
Yes, I think you should all be careful. Supplements can be very powerful and affect brain chemistry profoundly. Marnie said herself she has no idea what the dosages are that one should take.
So, how can one really know what they are doing??
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
Amino acids can have a powerful impact on the brain. A good book that addresses it is The Mood Cure by Julia Ross; a 4 1/2 star rating with 44 customer review ratings.
Basically it is a self help guide that has allowed many to successfully come off antidepressants and manage depression/anxiety through amino acid/mineral/vitamin balancing with some reports of 100% improvement.
Not saying this will do all that Marnie is saying the Magic 5 does, but is something to consider in keeping things balanced. Especially for those who may have depression/anxiety struggles which could be worsened by an imbalanced tinkering approach.
The book is available used on amazon for less than $5 plus shipping...a lot cheaper than antidepressant co-pays!
Posts: 495 | From SF Bay area, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Indeed they do. You can have your neuro transmitters tested by neuro science lab https://www.neurorelief.com/
and get a picture of exactly what your levels are and how out of balance they are. The lab will make recommendations by way of their supplement line, many of which are amino acids, to help balance them.
It's key to have a doc who really understands how neuro transmitters work and how they affect the body. I certainly would not recommend playing with this kind of stuff without proper testing and without doctor supervision.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Abxnomore, I have heard those tests are very controversial and not reliable many times. Several well-respected alternative docs told me this.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
That has not been my experience at all. But you do need a doc who understands neuro transmitters. It's really complicated and your average doc doesn't understand them.
I have found their line of supplements to be excellent and the testing to be very helpful in addressing issues of depression, anxiety and other problems as well. The head of the lab is one of the leading authorities on neuro transmitters.
Of course, mainstream medicine doesn't recognize the testing, but what else is new?
How many well respected alternative doctors doyou have in the south pole anyway?? Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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TerryK
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posted
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_285/ai_n19170382/pg_6/ Herpes viruses need arginine in order to continue replicating (Griffin et al. 1981). Armed now with the knowledge that Lyme spirochetes increase ammonia and mixing arginine with ammonia leads to increased brain swelling and energy deficits, addressing viruses becomes a very important issue in healing from Lyme disease.
Dietary supplementation with the amino-acid L-Lysine helps block the Herpes virus from replicating by several different mechanisms. L-Lysine limits the absorption of L-arginine in the gut; it promotes the rapid, enzymatic breakdown of L-arginine; and it generally antagonizes the growth-promoting actions of arginine on the Herpes viruses (Miller 1984).
Edited to add: From what this says, taking arginine for lyme patients seems contraindicated because the spirochetes cause increased ammonia and ammonia combined with arginine leads to increased brain swelling and energy deficits.
Also, those of us with certain methylation problems also have difficulty getting rid of ammonia thus we have even more ammonia.
Seems like anyone with lyme disease who is taking arginine without doing something to address excess ammonia is asking for trouble.
pamoisondelune
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11846
posted
As for herpes viruses, LOMATIUM is an herb that also stops herpes simplex I viruses; in me, the viruses were wiped out by LOMATIUM.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Lymeorsomething
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16359
posted
L-arginine supposedly boosts growth hormone but at very high to unsafe doses.... It may be better to take it before bedtime to help foster nocturnal GH release...
Actually after further reading it probably doesn't matter when you take but one would have to consume 15-30 grams for it do boost GH at all...plus you don't want that much arginine if you have viruses or other infections
Some of these things are recommended by Yasko to lower ammonia
Charcoal and Magnesium Flushes Dosage: 1 to 2 capsules of charcoal, followed by enough Magnesium Citrate to produce a Bowel Movement within 8-12 hours. Once per week or more
Yucca sprinkled on meat lower meat intake - 1 meal per day ARA 6 - larch powder
I *think* Yasko's product bioOrgan works on ammonia because it has low dose BH4 but you would need to do some research to verify that.
carnitine Butyrate Cholestyramine can supposedly reduce ammonia
Low dose BH4 - It is hard to get. You can get it here but you must have a phone appointment first and the appointment costs money. Prices for the BH4 have been changing because it has been hard to get. It is directly involved with removing ammonia. http://www.startlivingwelltoday.com
May want to avoid ammonia provokers. It's not possible to avoid them all but maybe cut down what you can. protein B6 glutathione taurine NAC
I may come back and add more if I think of anything else. Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
The magic 5 are Ester-C, Green Tea Extract, L-arginine, L-proline and L-lysine.
This is week 2 for me.
I'm taking what was recommended on the bottles.
So let's see.....
L-lysine 500 mg. in the evening on an empty stomach one hour after the L-arginine.
L-proline 500 mg. in the evening on an empty stomach one hour after the L-arginine.
L-arginine 500 mg. in the evening on an empty stomach an hour or so after a meal or snack.
Don't take arginine with other amino's. I don't really know why but that's what the salesclerk told me. Something about absorption I think.
Green Tea Extract 75% polyphenols 250 mg. in the a.m.
Active-C 500 mg. with bioflavonoids in the a.m.
I take other things too but haven't been on antibiotics for almost 2 years.
I also take other meds and supplements.
Maybe it's the ammonia that's making me feel a bit off. Will try pectin in yogurt to see if it will do as a toxin eliminator.
I'll post later about some of my symptoms that I'm experiencing.
Seekhelp, I read your posts with much interest and saw that you had problems with this too.
I'm hoping the longer I'm taking the 5 the side effects will lessen.
I'll let you all know.
Guinea Pig out.....
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6172 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
OMG! Had a horrible headache today along with not feeling well. Could only walk about 1 mile today when I usually walk 3.
TerryK, I think I might be having some swelling in my brain.
I've had this reaction before when I first started treatment for Lyme.
My LLNP added Diamox (diuretic) to my protocol and that took care of the slight encephalitis that I developed.
I took 2 Diamox just a little while ago along with a pain pill, the head pain was that bad.
Feel better but am thinking either to nix the arginine or definitely lower it.
What to do? What to do?
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6172 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
E-EPA TO REDUCE BRAIN INFLAMATION. GNC CARRIES NEW FORMULATION - CHEAPER THAN OMEGABRITE.
DECREASE ARGININE...GOOD IDEA.
LIKEY NIACIN COULD TRIGGER SAME-HEADACHE.
YES... NITRIC OXIDE CAN INDUCE MIGRAINE OR...
NH3? brain toxin. FROM DESTRUCTION OF BB'S PROTEINS?
acz zeolite TO BIND AND RID NH3.
MAY NEED TO PULSE THE MAGIC FIVE?
WHAT OTHER MEDS AND SUPPS ARE YOU ON?
TOO MUCH TOO FAST? SYNERGY?
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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Marnie
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 773
posted
ARGININE IS ONE OF THE NUTRIENTS NEEDED TO MAKE COLLAGEN.
GOOGLE THIS = ARGININE COLLAGEN...AND JUST READ THE HEADINGS OF THE ARTICLES.
THE PATHOGENS DEPLETE US OF NUTREINTS WE NEED.
BB NEEDS GLUCOSE AND MANY AMINO ACIDS AND OUR B6 AND......JUST TRY TO GO ON A GLUCOSE-FREE DIET AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS.
TO CURE SARS - VIRUS - RESEARCHERS GAVE MORE OF THE ENZYME THAT LOCKS ONTO AND IT WORKED...SARS DIDN'T INFECT.
RESTORE THE BALANCE.
Posts: 9426 | From Sunshine State | Registered: Mar 2001
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
Am not quite understanding why I would get so sick on these plain old amino acids.
I've nixed the L-Proline, L-Lysine and L-Arginine.
And to be on the safe side have also discontinued GABA.
Marnie-Will look up the things you suggested.
Tosho-Will look into what Garth Nicholson has to say about L-Arginine too.
Thanks all!
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6172 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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aklnwlf
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5960
posted
BTW, think I might have an ammonia problem, agree with TerryK.
Am gonna try lactulose to get rid of the excess ammonia.
-------------------- Do not take this as medical advice. This comment is based on opinion and personal experience only.
Alaska Lone Wolf Posts: 6172 | From Columbus, GA | Registered: Jul 2004
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I'm interested to see where it goes. It obviously does something!
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