LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter




The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from Amazon.com for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from Amazon.com, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Will you ever get better if you can't do aerobic activity?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Will you ever get better if you can't do aerobic activity?
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I guess there are many issues here with sensory overload, pain of all kinds, fatigue, etc.

I do try and do stretches several times a day but still am unable to tolerate *any* kind of aerobic activity...am still too sick for that.

Used to be fairly "athletic", am wondering if the stretches are doing my body any good since I don't feel any different. I guess what I'm wondering is..can you get better with only being able to do stretches??

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sixgoofykids
Moderator
Member # 11141

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sixgoofykids   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Check out the Dr. B guidelines at www.ilads.org

He actually recommends against doing aerobic activity until your stamina is improved. He says to work out three days per week for one hour stretching and strength training.

The guidelines are very informative.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TF     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, lift very light weights. Do a few leg lifts, etc.

Work up to the 1 hour routine over a matter of months if necessary.

This type of exercise is absolutely necessary to eliminate lyme permanently per my now famous lyme doc and per Burrascano.

It boosts your immune system.

BUT, only do the weight lifting every OTHER day, not every day.

Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

QiGong - or Tai Chi - Yoga, too, but QiGong and Tai Chi have some advantages with building endurance.

(along with patients' medical/nutrition protocols) this slow, meditative exercise has brought thousands of people back from all sort of illnesses. Low impact, but these kinds of exercise routine have an enormous benefit. Don't be fooled, it can be very powerful.

You can do just as much as you can do, even if you have to sit down sometimes.

One of the forms of QiGong most used for those with health problems is Soaring Crane. Thousand Hands Buddha can be done sitting down and is very relaxing yet rejuvenating.

Tai Chi is harder for me - more moving of the neck. I find QiGong much better. Yoga has its place, for sure, alongside as as equal but it will not do the same thing regarding building endurance and balance (in my experience).

I see you live "anywhere" - well, I tried to look up a school of Acupuncture near you but no go. If there is one - or a naturopathic college, you might find a course for the public there.

Many community centers now teach QiGong, although Tai Chi is more popular. I stress the importance of learning from a certified instructor. The moves look easy but there is a precision that a trained teacher can assess as you learn. Ask them for a DVD to help practice with - or join a practice group with a teacher.

-

[ 09-19-2009, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
OK - 1 hr?? I think I can *maybe* manage a few minutes several times a day...lifting a can of kidney beans. Used to LOVE weights, can't even imagine lifting 1 lb weights right now. Increases fibro pain, faigue, flu pain, etc.

I agree strength training is important but we're dealing with one sick puppy here!! (You wouldn't know that). Love all your suggestions though! [Smile]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770

Icon 1 posted      Profile for feelfit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Btm,

I was a former fitness trainer (on the side, for fun) Ha. Anyway, as the saying goes, "something is better than nothing" Raising a finger is better than not, seriously.

I tried to do leg exercises as often as I could at my illest. I laid on my bed and did what I could. Something worked as I have maintained some strength.

I think that your stretches are awesome for you. You don't complain too much so many do not know your level of functioning. I would keep doing the leg lifts as health permits and also, while you are lying on the bed, you can also do arm lifts, simply up and down, again as health permits.

I haven't gotten to the aerobic part yet, except for my notorious 3 mile walk a couple of weeks ago. BUT! I try to use the steps as much as possible. and hope to get strong enough to endure a bit more......

The thing to remember is to do what you are able, if that is a can of kidney beans and you get a set of 10, well, hurray for you....next time maybe a quart of milk.....

It may even help with your mood and sense of accomplishment.

And for sure, even a can of kidney beans is something.

Feelfit

Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lpkayak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i may end up paying in the long run but i am pushing myself now

i thought i couldn't - i can barely walk thru the grocery or walk the dog or even stand up long enough to cook a meal

but i got this horse and i really want to ride and i feel good when i do

so i push standing walking brushing and tacking up-often i have to stop and let my pulse come down and catch my breath

when i started 3 months ago i could only post trot about 30 seconds-today i did it 5 min. i can't believe that makes me happy-the kids at the barn trot 45 min straight.

i can pretty much sit on the horse at the walk for ever so i just trot -walk-trot-walk.

so i can do more , my pulse is now 60 at rest instead of 70 and i am losing weight and going down in clothes sizes.

i know i couldn't do this in the gym or on my stepper. its the motivation of getting to ride.

but thats my thing. i rode for 47 yrs before lyme made me break up my farm and not ride for 10 yrs

i tell myself its ok if i just sit and walk-but once i'm on...i usually want to do more

i don't know...maybe i'll pay...but i'm happy now and so sick of not doing do many things i care about

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Awww so kind of you feelfit - thx so much for your insight. Yes, I have so many other issues that hinder any kind of "exercise" (dysautonomia, pain, sensory overload, dizziness, blah blah) but mainly untreated infections wreaking havoc!

Your suggestions are excellent..and thx for the pep talk, I needed it.

Wishing you better health too! [Smile]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Ipkayak - your post made me laugh! Yay, good for you. A friend suggested horseback riding to me too but I think I'll wait a while.

What a wonderful way to "rehab". I think we need to listen to our bodies, push just a little and retreat when we're doing "too much". So you've been able to combine "fun" and exercise, Yay again! Enjoy that fresh country air!!!

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770

Icon 1 posted      Profile for feelfit     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Smile] Back at you! Ipkayak is a winner too!
Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

There is an amazing success story here of a lyme patient's tale of her embarking upon QiGong. There are also a couple of easy and quick "Chi" exercises.


http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/86028?

Topic: QiGong & Tai Chi

-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183

Icon 1 posted      Profile for TF     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
btmb, I thought it was impossible for me to do weight lifting when my lyme doc first told me that I had to do the Burrascano exercise program.

My main symptom was extreme muscle weakness. I couldn't stand or walk for very long. It was a joke what I was able to do the first time I tried. Lasted about 10 minutes.

So, do what you can every other day, or once every 5 days, etc. It boosts your immune system. This is the key to not relapsing. My doc said it was ESSENTIAL for me to do this if I wanted to get rid of lyme.

I assume you are in lyme treatment. If you are, force yourself to begin doing this as you are able. Don't despise 5 minutes of lifting your leg up off the bed. That is 5 BIG minutes.

Read everything Burrascano says about exercise being essential. Here are a couple quotes:

"CERTAIN ABSOLUTE RULES MUST BE FOLLOWED IF LYME SYMPTOMS ARE TO BE PERMANENTLY CLEARED:
1. Not allowed to get behind in sleep, or become overtired.
2. No caffeine or other stimulants that may affect depth or duration of sleep, or reduce or eliminate naps.
3. Absolutely no alcohol!
4. No smoking at all.
5. Aggressive exercises are required and should be initiated as soon as possible."

Also:

"LYME DISEASE REHABILITATION
Despite antibiotic treatments, patients will NOT return to normal unless they exercise, so therefore an aggressive rehab program is absolutely necessary. It is a fact that a properly executed exercise program can actually go beyond the antibiotics in helping to clear the symptoms and to maintain a remission. Although the scientific basis for the benefits of exercises is not known, there are several reasonable theories. It is known that Bb will die if exposed to all but the tiniest oxygen concentrations. If an aggressive exercise program can increase tissue perfusion and oxygen levels, then this may play a role in what is being seen.
Also, during aggressive exercise, the core body temperature can rise above 102 degrees; it is known that B. burgdorferi is very heat sensitive. Perhaps it is the added tissue oxygenation, or higher body temperature, or the combination that weakens the Lyme Borrelia, and allows the antibiotics and our defenses to be more effective. Regular exercise-related movements can help mobilize lymph and enhance circulation. In addition, there is now evidence that a carefully structured exercise program may benefit T-cell function: this function will
depress for 12 to 24+ hours after exercise, but then rebound. This T-cell depression is more pronounced after aerobics which is why aerobics are not allowed. The goal is to exercise intermittently, with exercise days separated by days of total rest, including an effort to have plenty of quality sleep. The trick is to time the exercise days to take advantage of these rebounds. For an example, begin with an exercise day followed by 3 to 5 rest days; as stamina improves, then fewer rest days will be needed in between workouts. However, because T-cell functions do fall for at least one day after aggressive exercises, be sure to never exercise two days in a row. Finally, an in intermittent exercise program, properly executed, may help to reset the HPA axis more towards normal. On the following page is an exercise prescription that details these recommendations......The program must evolve into a graded, ultimately strenuous exercise program that consists of a specific
regimen of non-aerobic conditioning- see below." (p. 31)

http://www.ilads.org/lyme_disease/B_guidelines_12_17_08.pdf

It worked for me. I completed my lyme treatment 4 1/2 years ago and I am still symptom-free, enjoying my life--the same life I had before lyme disease.

I went undiagnosed for 10 years. And, I had lyme, babesiosis, and bartonella. I credit my recovery to the Burrascano type doc I finally went to. Burrascano figured out the key to getting rid of this disease. Too bad all lyme doctors don't tell their patients.

Here is a girl who got her life back by doing the Burrascano exercise program: daisyrlb. Read her post in Success Stories, bottom of page 2.

It can be you!

Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Keebler, TF, good advice, will definitely read the links tomorrow - TF congratulations on recuperating your health, too, great that you can provide support for the rest of us!!
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sixgoofykids
Moderator
Member # 11141

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sixgoofykids   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Do what you are able. My husband would come home from work and get me out of bed to go to the gym. Some days just walking to the car, walking into the gym, and looking at the weights was enough and I had to go home.

The idea is to get the body moving .... it increases core temp (which the bugs don't like), moves lymph, increases blood flow, and increases the immune system. Even if flexing your hands and feet while lying in bed is all you can do ... at least do that.

--------------------
sixgoofykids.blogspot.com

Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
``Backwards Blood Pressure''?

That can explain a lot about exercise intolerance.

----------------
From

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/86015

Topic: Hypoglycemia-like attack?

Read the post by Al about ``Backwards Blood Pressure''

original link:

http://www.publichealthalert.org/Articles/laurazeller/backwards%20blood%20pressure.html
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067

Icon 1 posted      Profile for seekhelp     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Great post. Very educational. I truly think this is what's happening to me.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270

Icon 1 posted      Profile for sutherngrl     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I like this thread. I needed it.

About 5 weeks ago, I was feeling slightly better than I have in 3 and 1/2 years, and attempted to walk on my treadmill. I actually felt okay as I was walking, so I pushed for 15 minutes. I was literally laid up for 8 straight days and have not been the same since.

It is just so hard not to feel that pushing yourself is important to overcome this horrendous illness; but I guess with LD you have to really watch yourself. I sure learned my lesson.

Thanks for all the info on this thread!

Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Seekhelp, sutherngrl - [Smile]

I used to have some info on Dr. Paul Cheney (CFS MD) where he talks about the push/crash thing. After many years of trial and error and incompetent docs, I have learned to listen to my body.

As I mentioned above, pushing ourselves "a little" is good to see where our limits our but we all have many, many different variables that differ from person to person. I like stretches, I have a ton of pain. Deep breathing helps too.

At least I'm moving..!! [Smile]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
trigal2
LymeNet Contributor
Member # 20578

Icon 1 posted      Profile for trigal2     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Just wanted to jump and in and say that I think alot has to do with your fittness level prior to getting lyme/co-infection and getting sick. It's all relative.

For someone who never worked out vs. someone who is /was an athlete it will be different.

For 5 days I literally could not get off the couch from feeling so terrible. But woke up today feeling much better so I went for my Sunday morning run.

Now some may say that is crazy. BUT....prior to getting lyme AGAIN... my normal Sunday runs were 10 miles - today I ran 3.5 slow miles. So for me that was within an acceptable range for my body.

My LLMD recommends that I run when I feel up to it as she thinks it helps with the tx and die off.

For me, if I feel like I can exercise then I do it. Everyone is different and everyone's pre-morbid state is different. But I think listening to your body is crutial.

Posts: 376 | From New Jersey | Registered: Jun 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-
For many, more protein will help with energy. Eggs are not enough for me, I also need good wild fish or low-fat animal protein at least once a day, rounded out with vegetable protein from legumes, etc.

A little dark (very dark, high number) chocolate before exercising can also help with the post-movement drop.

Protein helps our bodies make glutathione and that helps the liver detox . . . protein's amino acids help our brain, our hearts, our muscles, etc., etc., etc.,

Taurine, from muscle meats, is vital, too.

-------

http://icmr.nic.in/ijmr/2006/august/0804.pdf


THE REQUIREMENTS OF PROTEIN & AMINO ACID DURING ACUTE & CHRONIC INFECTION . . . - 20 pages


Anura V. Kurpad - Institute of Population Health & Clinical Research, Bangalore, India

129. Indian J Med Res 124, August 2006, pp 129-148. Review Article.


Excerpt: " . . . In general, the amount of EXTRA protein that would appear to be needed is of the order of 20-25 per cent of the recommended intake, for most infections. . . ."


- Full article at link
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Keebler     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
-

Here is a thread that has a lot of Dr. Cheney's work on the heart that btmb03 mentioned (and he started this thread). Great information here not just about what might be happening but what can be done to help:


http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/1/77325

Topic: To everyone with cardiac symptoms please read!

Posted by btmb03
-

Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ebbakarin
Member
Member # 16362

Icon 1 posted      Profile for ebbakarin     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree with all the comments on this thread as to how important some sort of activity is, even if it's a walk around the backyard.

I was worried about not getting my heart pumping, since I couldn't really do anything aerobic. Instead I took hot epsom salt baths, which made me heart beat pretty good. It's a way to get your blood pumping without a lot physical activity.

To this I did aided (with pads and towels) yoga, mostly to retain my strength and flexibility. I bet swimming, or even just moving around in water, would be a good, easy impact way to keep your muscle tone.

Posts: 36 | From Corvallis, OR | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
daisyrlb
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15686

Icon 1 posted      Profile for daisyrlb     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
When Dr. B says that a person will not get better without exercise, THAT is an outrageous statement. WOW--think of it!

But he is the expert and with his years of treating patients with Lyme, he has seen the difference it makes in his patient's lives.

It did make a difference in my life. I'm thankful TF told me about Dr. B's Guidelines and shared that exercise made the difference in her life--specifically not aerobic exercise per Dr. B's Guidelines.

I had been a jogger before Lyme, however I was just too exhausted to even walk. As a result my muscles wasted. TF inspired me when I read that she "had her life back".

I was determined. I could only start with 30 seconds (don't laugh) of muscle strength exercises.

Now I am symptom free and do up to 45 minutes of muscle strength exercises. Plus I enjoy walking, jogging and riding my bike. Of course not all on the same day. Smile.

lpkayak, I've always wanted to learn to ride a horse. Maybe I will.

I am a Lyme Survivor. You can read my story under "Success Stories" at the end of page 2.

Posts: 2188 | From Oklahoma | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CherylSue
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 13077

Icon 1 posted      Profile for CherylSue     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
My new LLMD thinks my postexertional fatigue may be due to adrenal fatigue, and we are testing for that.

My first two bouts of Lyme were healed by walking (no meds or abx.) Now too much walking puts me into a flare.

Doc thinks that years of fighting lyme and infections stressed my adrenals and reduced by stamina.

Just a thought.

CherylSue

Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
btmb03
Unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Very interesting responses everyone. I fell ill at my fittest. However severity and length of illness are crucial. Those of us who have been *severely* ill for many years may find it more difficult to even do anything remotely that resembles exercise.

On top of that is of course..this lovely treatment.

However, as another poster said, *some* movement is better than nothing.. [Smile]

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230

Icon 1 posted      Profile for lpkayak     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"My first two bouts of Lyme were healed by walking (no meds or abx.)"

?????????????

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

Quick Reply
Message:

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins
   


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3


The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA


| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.