posted
There have been some prior threads on internal vibrations as a lyme symptom. I have had these for about 7 months now in practically my entire body and am scared out of my wits. You can't see them, but I feel them internally and sometimes see my hair buzzing a bit. They have not yet gotten better on doxy for me yet.
Those of you who experience neurological symptoms in the form of these internal vibrations- what coinfections do you have? I am wondering if there is a link to a specific coinfection.
Have you had any feedback on these vibrations from an LLMD?
And if you were fortunate enough to get rid of this symptom, please share your methods/protocols/widom.
posted
Vibration was one of my earliest symptoms, and used to move around as kind of a warning as to where the most painful inflammation was going to develop.
After many other abx combinations,six months of flagyl & zithromax got rid of all but a little vibration in one eye. However, after stopping the flagyl, the symptoms gradually came back, but the vibration is now primarily confined to my face and eyes. Now, I still occasionally have vibration in shoulder, leg etc, but only temporarily.
Since I was not diagnosed for six years, that was a big headstart for the bactieria. I have only tested positive for lyme, but my doctors think I had babesia aas well.
Since the vibration was not painful, it didn't bother me except as a signal that the lyme was still lurking. The vibration preceded epidsodes of very painful shoulder, knee, ankle & jaw inflammation.
Best wishes.
Ann
Posts: 287 | From Northern California, USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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With me, it started with tingling, then changed to the humming vibrations in my hands and feet specifically (bartonella, methinks).
Then, the humming areas developed into full blown nerve pain. Gahhhh...
But now, it is like my symptoms are going backwards as I get better. Recently the pain has reduced itself back to humming. I will SO take humming over pain ANY day!
Also, I have noticed the vibrations in my lower abdomen of late. It seems to possibly be consistent with, and I hate to say this, parasite activity. And it also seems to occur after I take colloidal silver. Hmmm. Or, hummm, as it were.
Alison
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Thanks for bringing this up. I agree that internal vibrations are very scary.
I read on a prior post that someone's LLMD named them "mini seizures," which freaks me out a bit because I wonder if there is a risk of brain damage.
For me, they act mostly as a signal that a bad herx is coming. (I am only 3.5 weeks into lyme tx.)
I usually get them at night-- sometimes they wake me up-- and they are accompanied by intense ear/head presssure and usually anxiety.
I have described this to my family as the sensation that a gong is going off in my brain, reverberating throughout my body.
They are mostly concentrated in my head and face but sometimes I get them in my calves, hands, and even my body as a whole.
I only experienced mild vibrations during Bart tx so IMO they are more associated with neuro-manifestations of lyme.
I am definitely going to ask my LLMD about this next week.
I hope for all of us that they go away soon. Posts: 390 | From Oakland, CA | Registered: May 2007
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frakktured1
Unregistered
posted
Some people may be confusing the tremors/ or inside shaking or vibrating with the outward fascigulations of our skin and or nervous system.
I have had both of these symptoms.
With continuing abx treatments and time...thses symptoms can resolve.
You have to have patience because sometimes you may have to go back to a certain drug to use against them.
Not to worry too much however. It's a pretty common symptom.
While I don't remember any specific abx that helped with this symptom over any other. I do know that going after lyme will help fix the tremors or shakes.
Because I was never diagnosed with anything other than Bb.
Another way of getting rid of those symbal like vibrations is to stop holding band practice in your basement!
posted
I have also had these internal vibrations....I explain them as feeling like I am hooked up to a small electrical current.
I've been in treating for 3 months: first month doxy, second month Biaxin/Plaquenil and this past month IV Ceft. Wasn't until I was on the IV ceft that these internal vibrations subsided. My PICC line is coming out on Monday and I will be starting back on the Biaxin and I fear those vibrations will come back...sigh....
Posts: 561 | From mass | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
P.S. I forgot to mention that I do indeed have Bartonella for sure, actually tested positive for henslae even.
Also, this humming has only been a recent thing for me, over the past couple of weeks and I've been in treatment for a couple of years.
The scalp crawling I get a lot though.
A
--------------------
The obscure we see eventually. The completely obvious, it seems, takes longer. --- Edward R. Murrow Posts: 923 | From California | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
i get these too...are any of these people who posted this still around this board?
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
I have had these vibrations since I collapsed in 1983. They are calming down considerably with treatment.
I agree with Alison that they are parasites. I am far enough into tx that I also feel the movement in my intestines and scalp. Do a search on her by typing in parasites and Lyme,
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
-
Magnesium and fish oil are the two best things to calm down my over-excited but also exhausted nervous systems.
For adrenal exhaustion that causes this same sort of vibration, there are some good ideas in Singleton's book, "The Lyme Disease Solution"
IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
These were also one of my first symptoms and scared me outta my wits. My husband thought I was nuts because he couldn't see what I was feeling.
I've had them for the last 6 years I guess. I get them mostly when waking up, or maybe that is what wakes me up. I feel it is inflammation of the nerves.
My twin sister also has the internal vibrations. Hers are mostly when she is trying to fall asleep I think.
I also tested positive for RMSF and Mycoplasma. West Nile antibodies as well. Babs and Bart are neg. but my doctor suspects Bart in my whole family.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I get this too although mine is not painful, it just feels like I'm toxic, flu like and my body might combust into flames (I radiate a lot of heat when this happens)...it also causes me much anxiety. It has always been at night...wakes me up. I've never had this during the day.
Someone described it best as a light electrical current throughout my body. I experienced it here and there before being diagnosed with Lyme but I have mostly experienced it while on abx.I recently cut my Ceftin dose in half because I couldn't take it...it was really freaking me out. Almost all my symptoms are worse at night and in the early morning when I am trying to wake up.
I've had the scalp crawling feeling too...yuk!
-------------------- TxLymie IgG-Negative IgM - Postive bands 23 and 41
Other dx: 2000: Endometriosis 2009: Chronic EBV, Mycoplasma infection, HHV6, H.pylori Posts: 297 | From Houston | Registered: Jun 2009
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
B12 IM works for me.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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posted
bump!
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
For me, it was always caused by heavy metals that were mobilized with the die-off. Once they are eliminated, the body starts to get to rest. It usually happens at night because that is when the body is actively trying to detox. The trick is to get the binders on board before meals, and mainly when going to bed. Most all Neurotoxins are recirculated and reabsorbed unless you work on eliminating them from the body via all available exit routes.
It helps to learn about Allergie Immun (thread going on now) and KPU/HPU (also discussed here at various times).
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
thank you all so much. KS: how did you eliminate them? mine are better since being on zithro...i have never been treated for the bab that i do have..wonder if this is a reason? GIGI: you seem to have so much knowledge...thanks so much. c
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some of this reiterates several posts from above by others.
While I think we all know exactly what you mean with the term "internal vibrations" and most LLMDs will know, too. However, caution should be used with that term with regular doctors who might write that in your chart or roll their eyes with the term.
The "over-excitability of the various nervous systems and/or adrenal dysfunction" are terms that might work better when you describe this to non-LL people or doctors.
The CFIDS Chronicle, many years ago (maybe 10-15 years?), had an article that perfectly describes this - it's an article you could even give to family members or doctors to explain the sensations. When I get some energy to hunt that down, I'll post it here.
That was the first article to show the absolute magnificent effect of increasing magnesium. That made a huge difference for me then, and ever since.
The CFIDS article describes what is happening (NMDA too high; GABA too low) but not why. I later read from the work of several lyme researchers who explained why (neuro-toxic load from lyme and the damage that can cause). Magnesium increase was also suggested by lyme authors.
Heavy metals, too, can be involved and that is addressed by Klinghardt and some of the porphryia articles in the link below. Again, magnesium is key.
Bottom line, though: treat infection(s), minimize toxic buid-up with liver support and add key nutrients. Rest to let the body heal and move in the right amount to promote health but not exhaust. That all sounds easy (right?) . . . but finding the right balance can sure take a while.
=======
And, when talking about inner ear "vibrations" - while toxicity is a connector, there is range of sensations that can occur. Some of that is described here - again, magnesium is a help if the ear stuff is from over stimulation from toxicity.
The inner ear is the first body system to detect toxins and one of the first to suffer damage.
posted
Bumping and thumping in the back of my head almost caused me to lose consciousness alot. It was what led me to go to doctor after doctor till i got a positive lyme test. I tested negative for co-infections at IgeneX but they don't incorporate all strains.
I feel like when things are rattling/thumping/excited/etc in my nervous system that's when to make sure i grab my meds on time and detox. Recently added cholestryamine and saunas.
The thumping hasnt gone away AT all...keeps me up at night and happens during the day, but my head's clearer (less neurotoxins).
Posts: 123 | From Minneapolis, MN | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I've had this too since I got sick in 1986. Feels like my brain is having a power surge. Other times it feels like my insides are actually vibrating. Sometimes when it's really bad, my hands do vibrate.
Kathy
-------------------- You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have. Posts: 807 | From South Dakota | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
I HATE these...I always get them when slepping and they wake me up :-(
-------------------- Seeking renewed health & vitality. --------------------------------- Do not take anything I say as medical advice - I am NOT a dr! Posts: 830 | From TN | Registered: Aug 2007
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
My doc equates them with lyme rather than other infections. Didn't know the mechanism.
I've found that Mineral Chi by Nature's sunshine takes them away most of the time. I have to take it 2X's per day or they come back. Sometimes they come back anyway and then I increase my dose of mineral chi.
I found that mineral chi helped via muscle testing so while this works for ME, it may not work for you. Simply don't know becaue I know of no one else who has these who has tried mineral chi.
I hate them too. They are frightening.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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My internal vibrations peaked when I first started antibiotic treatment (biaxin/plaquenil) so I suspect it was part of a herxheimer reaction (my herx was so severe I was hospitalized for about a week). A month of IV ceftriaxone did the trick for that symptom.
I didn't experience any pain just that horrible sensation that made me want to desperately get out of my own body.
Posts: 561 | From mass | Registered: Jul 2007
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lightparfait
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22022
posted
Every one of you who has these sensations, must do a parasite cleanse. This is important.
Try one of the natural types, and see if you get relief like me!!!
I just had removed a tape worm, and while it was dying, I had major intestinal vibrations, Just like the milder ones I have had for many years that I had no explanation for. This was taking the Hulda Clarke protocol for tape worms coq10 mega dose.
You must go with your intuition on this. Tests are not accurate for parasite infection, and most people with lyme and babesia do have parasites. Not just the microscopic ones.
There is no downside to taking a humaworm natural type of a product and see and feel the results! someone on lymenet recommended this to me, and I thought I had no parasites...well the expensive tests were all wrong! The results freaked me out at first...but now I am so happy to finally be actually feeling great, and still seeing these critters be removed!
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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lightparfait
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posted
Also, just had a muscle test done, and parasites are found (thread worms) in my muscles and lymph nodes. This is the other area I get the vibrational sensations.
I will work on ridding myself of these and see if I also get relief in these areas. I will post as I see results.
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
thanks for the info ya'll... lightparfait, how do you get rid of the parasites?
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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TerryK
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posted
I think it's possible that parasites might cause this but I doubt that is the cause for me. I've been doing intense parasite cleanses for 3+ years. Before that I did numerous parasite cleanses but not on a schedule like I do now.
I think GIGI's mention of heavy metals is a common cause and probably at least part of the cause for me. Mine started with IM ceftriaxone. As GIGI said, killing borrelia releases metals.
I am always on a heavy metal detoxer but heavy metal detox depletes minerals. You need the minerals to remove heavy metals. I think this is probably why my vibrations almost go away entirely with mineral chi. It does have some chinese herbs in it as well so that could also be partly why it works.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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lightparfait
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posted
I agree with Terry...it is not just one thing.
I posted about the parasites as these seem to be overlooked, and when removed, can give abetter picture of what you have left to deal with.
I too also have the metals which seem to be giveing me my fibromyalgia type muscle pain.
also the mineral depletion is a problem, and can also cause these symptoms.
I believe from working with removing the three problems that live together (parasites, metals and fungus/candida), we can all get better and achieve absorption of our nutrients and minerals.
Then the deeper, more permanent healing happens.
Posts: 1009 | From NJ | Registered: Aug 2009
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lightparfait
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posted
its all just so overwhelming...i really don't even take high abx like i should be. i see my new doc in a few weeks so hopefully, she can help me sort all this out. thank you all so much again, christine
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
TerryK, which of the Mineral-Chi's are you taking? I notice there is a huge difference in price. So there must be different ones.
When killing critters, we also release fungi and we release viruses, as well as parasites. If you muscle test and test for Vitamin A, you can bet on viral release. It's the whole eco system that is blown to bits - so really any of the neurotoxins can cause the vibrations. Usually it is combined with some metal release - so you have got to go heavy on binders before going to bed for sure. Otherwise you will vibrate yourself silly. It is one of the longest lingering symptoms and no matter, if you feel tired when it is finally bedtime, be sure you take some good binders and make sure that you have good bathroom elimination - even to the extent of taking a tea or more magnesium - whatever does it for you.
Just don't go to bed without binders! And vary them - don't take the same type all the time. Learn to tensor test and you will quickly find that the body sometimes prefers one and then the other. Even my husband can tensor now and test. It is so easy. You can get an inexpensive one - a nice man makes them to fit the individual and it just takes a bit of practice. You will be amazed how many questions you can answer that your doctor never will. Your body tells you what it wants.
It only takes eating sugared walnuts for me -- I cook up a pound of walnuts with some organic sugar and a bit of cinnamon more often than I want to admit. For some people it is prunes - for me it is walnuts. It's a most important event in your day - you want to get rid of the toxins via stool - not kidney. Compare a football field to a pingpong table. That is why fiber and binders are sooooo important. And it may just help your vibrating when you eliminate the redistribution and resettling of the toxins by having the binders on board!
Time for bed now.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
thanks again..i am so glad i bummed this back into action..GI GI you are soooo right about the vibrations being the remaining symptom. ?: do the vibrations get worse around certain times of the month for ya'll? and what are some "binders?"
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
GIGI asked: TerryK, which of the Mineral-Chi's are you taking?
I take Nature's Sunshine brand. It is a good quality brand.
Mineral-Chi Tonic, Chinese (32 fl. oz.)
Mineral-Chi Tonic, Chinese [Vital Nutrition, Glandular] is a special blend of tonic herbs and a full spectrum of naturally chelated trace minerals extracted from the plant vegetation of an ancient seabed.
Mineral-Chi contains the following renowned Chinese tonic herbs used in Traditional Chinese Medicine to boost and maintain balance in the body's energy system:
Each serving also provides 180 mg of potassium, an electrolyte that plays a role in many important functions throughout the body. It also contains purified water, white grape juice, glycerin, sodium benzoate, citric acid and natural apple and cherry flavors. -------------------------------------------------
around $39 for non-members $26 for members. You may be able to find it on-line for the same price as members pay without becoming a member.
I knew about viruses and metals but didn't know we released fungi and parasites. ugh!
Greenbow asked: what are some "binders?"
Gigi say's walnuts and prunes. Hadn't heard of those as binders before. I'm sure Gigi will come by and post more.
Gigi - can you post a recipe for your walnuts please?
mycotoxin and borrelia toxin binders - may bind other things as well
Activated Charcoal (62% as effective as Cholestyramine) Cholestyramine (prescription only) Micronized Chitosan Montmorillonite or bentonite clay Peach Tree Extract seaweed
metal binders - be very careful with binding metals - best to work with a doctor
Activated Charcoal Algas Metal Detox Liquid Extract, NutraMedix Alpha Lipoic Acid CheleX by Xymogen Chemet Prescription (Lead) Chlorella Cilantro DMSA Detoxamin EDTA Jarrow's Heavy Metal Detox NAC Modified Fruit Pectin Metal Magnet By Enzymatic Therapy Modifilan - Pure Brown Seaweed Extract Natural Cellular Defense by Waiora Nutramedix Zeolite - detox lead and nickel Nurtramedix Zeolite HP Parsley Tincture Phospholipid Exchange Vitamin C Found to Lower Levels of Lead in Blood
There are many more but that's all I can think of at the moment.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Wow, that's great information Terry! Thank you for putting that on here. I had only taken cholestryamine and cilantro/chlorella before. I feel like i'm going to want to print this info off for future reference now.
Posts: 123 | From Minneapolis, MN | Registered: Jul 2009
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TerryK
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posted
LizaLu- glad you find the list helpful. I'm sure Gigi will have more to add.
Just a reminder - please check with your LLMD/doctor before taking any of these. You must be very careful with metal binders because some can move metals right into the brain if not used properly.
Please research any of these that you decide to try. Some can be problematic with other things that you are taking. They often need to be taken away from vitamins, prescription drugs, food etc..
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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GiGi
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posted
Terry, thank you for the min chi. I found it and will get some.
I am also very fond of all the chinese teapills that are so inexpensive and I have a selection from which to choose/tensor and most of them work like a charm, especially for keeping liver/kidney open when detox is pushing things.
Some of the binders that were mentioned are actually mobilizers, not binders, and one has to be very careful using any of them, as you mentioned.
The actual binders do not mobilize or stir up metals. They are taken, to form bulk, to be waiting downline to wrap up eventual metal molecules and carry them out in the stool in order to avoid reabsorption and redistribution.
I will mark what I consider binders only, with "(binder)"
Activated Charcoal (Binder) Algas Metal Detox Liquid Extract, NutraMedix Alpha Lipoic Acid CheleX by Xymogen Chemet Prescription (Lead)= DMSA Chlorella (Partially binder, mobilizes some metals from extracellular spaces) Cilantro (tincture is serious brain detox, when rubbed into skin especially - has to be taken very late in metal detox phase and very carefully - is not a binder - ) DMSA Detoxamin EDTA Jarrow's Heavy Metal Detox NAC Modified Fruit Pectin (binder) Metal Magnet By Enzymatic Therapy Modifilan - Pure Brown Seaweed Extract Natural Cellular Defense by Waiora Nutramedix Zeolite - detox lead and nickel Nurtramedix Zeolite HP Parsley Tincture Phospholipid Exchange (carrier, containing EDTA) Vitamin C Found to Lower Levels of Lead in Blood
Unless I commented on these as binders, I would consider all the others as mobilizers to be used with great caution and with guidance from someone who knows. Never detox metals from the brain until after the gut and other parts have been worked on. If you use cilantro for the brain while the rest of the body is still heavy metal toxic, it can cause real problems when the metals are forced down from the brain and move into the other still loaded body compartments. You will have major collisions.
Binders are:
Chlorella, Pectin, chitosan, betasitosterol, charcoal, potatoes, clay, and some of the mixed fibers that are available.
Sorry I mislead you: The walnuts of course have a lot of fiber, but they avoid for me ever being constipated when taking binders. Cholestyramine for instance can be very constipating and may need something alongside to avoid that.
To make my favorite candied walnuts: Put a bit of butter in a pan, add some organic cane sugar, about 1/3 cup, add a couple cups of walnuts, a little cinnamon, stir all together until the sugar is melted and starts to stick to the alnuts. It only takes 3-4 minutes. Be careful to have heat not too high.
Pour the sugared nuts on a cool surface (a bit parchment paper) to let them cool off. Mine never have much of a chance to cool off .......
If it weren't so late right now, I would end up in the kitchen doing just that.
Take care.
P.S. Metals are minerals and minerals are metals. So whatever binds metals also binds your good minerals. Yes, as Terry said, take them away from each other.
Binders should be taken 30 minutes before meals, or at bedtime. I found a very reasonable chitosan at Swanson Vitamins which can be taken with the meal.
[ 10-07-2009, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: GiGi ]
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
thanks again ya'll.
Posts: 94 | From ut | Registered: Jul 2009
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
GIGI - Thanks for the recipe and the clarification.
Some that I listed are mobilizers and binders. I've seen studies that supposedly verify that ALA, DMSA and EDTA are binders. Some are more effective than others. I researched those things on the list awhile back and I'd have to go back and research again to verify that they are all binders so be sure to do your own research before taking any of them.
GIGI knows more about heavy metal detox than I do so if you can't find ample evidence that something binds heavy metals, don't take it. You do not want to mobilize without good binders on board.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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GiGi
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posted
According to Dr. K., there is no such thing as a chelator. There are only mobilizers. And again according to his many years of practicing this subject, there is no agent, a single agent, that takes a toxic metal molecule out of the body without the added help of another agent. It usually takes several working in sequence to do the job.
Some we dysregulations/allergies we inherit, just like we inherit some of our looks, and some have developed over lifetime. But --- it can be corrected.
If someone is allergic or your immune system has forgotten or never been programmed to recognize toxic heavy metals, most bets are off. It means that the body is unable to regulate properly and it causes dysfunctions in many different body compartments. We can try and try, not much comes out, until and unless the electromagnetic programming of your base system is corrected to recognize these toxins for what they are. Allergie Immun does that.
We can do all the challenge tests we want -- If the body is unable to let go of the toxins because it cannot identify them, they stay hidden doing their destructive things.
If you are still vibrating after years and many months, this is something to think about. We all deserve to be sleeping and waking up peacefully.
Terry, please report whatever you come up with. It is so nice to be sharing our experiences and we will all benefit.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- GiGi and Terry,
Thanks so much for taking the time to share such detailed information. -
[ 09-24-2009, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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