Topic: Anyone else feel a lot better on Bicillin? Does that end?
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I felt a decent amount better from oral Amoxicillin in high doses, but eventually I stopped it because I plateued. But this Bicillin seems great so far.
I herxed for about a month, but now I'm nearing the end of my second month, and feeling a decent amount better. I'd say I went from being about 10% of my old self, to now being about 40%. And this is in just a couple months.
So I'm wondering if this is really too good to be true? Does the honeymoon end?
Could it really be that simple? (I have been chronically ill for many years) I was thinking I might need IV's after the Bicillin...but now I'm starting to wonder if I won't, and Bicillin will be able to get me all the way there.
Granted, I'm on quite a few other antibiotics and antibabs meds, but I feel Bicillin is the one making the most impact. That and maybe Bactrim DS.
Please don't worry about bursting my bubble...I am interested to see if anyone else was seeing a lot of progress...then it stopped? Or did it just keep going until you got better? (or know of people that that happened to since they might not post anymore)
I'm feeling pretty hopeful, actually. But if I need to mentally prepare for more battles, it would be nice to know.
I should add that I did IV Doxy and IV Rocehepin (that for 1 month) in the past, but neither helped me much. But I realize there are a lot of other IV meds out there.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I took IM claforan shots for a pretty long while and liked them. The only problem is now I have several lumps on the sides of my legs where I gave myself the shots. I have switched to oral because I am scared that they will abscess or something and I will have to get them cut out. Maybe they are just scar tissue...just? I also plateau'd.
-------------------- Dying is easy. Living is harder. Posts: 257 | From owensboro kentucky | Registered: Mar 2008
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MariaA
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Member # 9128
posted
I don't know because I haven't done Bicillin yet, but there's a LOT of evidence that it has good CNS penetration, and I'm guessing that it probably reaches other compartments better than oral antibiotics do, since injectibles avoid the digestive system issues that happen with orals.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
Bugg
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Member # 8095
posted
Hoosiers51-
When I was considering trying Bicillin, I received several PMs from some people who are now well after doing Bicillin shots for 6 months to a year. They said they don't really post here anymore because they don't believe in the heavy rotations of multiple abx many are doing.
If you do some research you will find that some of the "cillins" have anti-inflammatory aspects...So, I don't know whether bicillin is just abating the horrible inflammation of the disease or what it's mode of action really is (ie cidal versus anti-inflammatory)...
I'm improving otherwise so have not tried these shots myself....
Hope you continue to improve on them....I might eventually talk with your doc about just doing the bicillin shots and nothing else for awhile....you might, and I say "might" as I don't know, be impeding the efficaciousness of the shots with the other abx you are taking....just a thought to discuss with your doc....
Take Care
Posts: 1155 | From Southeast | Registered: Oct 2005
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
What is the Bicillin dose and how often do you do the shots? Are on on anything else along with Bicillin? It is awesome stuff, I took it for over a year. Started at 1.2 MU once per week then increased to 3x per week, finally at 4x per week. It's nice too because if you are ever going on vacation or anything you can do one shot in each hip for 2.4 MU and that lasts up to 10 days. When I did Bicillin it was always combined withother antibiotics. One of the best protocols was Bicillin 1.2 MU LA with Biaxin 1,500-2,000 mg and Ceftin 3,000 mg plus pulsed FLagyl. Very powerful, and awesome!
That is great you are feeling better. You might be able to increase the dose...depends what it is.
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posted
I am having a lot of success on Bicillin injections. Although I just found out my insurance will no longer pay for it as of November. I have been on Bicillin for a year now. Unfortunately there is no generic and it is too expensive to continue this protocol with self pay. I would definately recommend Bicillin though.
Posts: 19 | From Phila, PA USA | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
I wonder all those people who did bicillin - did you do benzathine penicillin or procaine? I just read some research and procaine seems a LOT (by factor of 10) more potent
As about dose - I read it could be used in gigantic doses (20 -40 mil IU a day) - it was used like that for syphillis and other severe infections , especially where more advanced drugs were not available
I kinda do not think it could be enough though -it does absolutely nada for intracell forms since its acts on cell wall exclusively
p.s. Bicillin is very cheap when ordered online - $4 3.6 mill IU (thats 2 shots)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I know my LLMD used Bicillin during his treatment and he has been well for years.
I'm so glad to hear you are finally making progress on something!!!
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
benzathine penicillin, long acting (LA)
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
WildCondor,
Yup, I'm on other antibiotics. I'll PM you exactly what I'm on.
Also, regarding what coltman was saying about intracellular form, here are my thoughts.....
I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen this brought up before. Maybe I just don't understand the way the human body works. But my understanding is that there is "turn-over" of cells. For example, red blood cells live 120 days. Liver cells live 200 days, etc.
They say with babesia it's good to treat at least 4 months, because that's the length of the life of a red blood cell, and babesia infects those.
So I don't understand why it matters whether an antibiotic penetrates cells to get the intracellular form or not, just as long as you are on something like Bicillin long enough for most of your infected cells to have died.
Because I'd have to assume that when the cell dies, the bacterial form inside of it is then susceptible to Bicillin.
Things like brain cells apparently live 30-50 years. I read that online. But I'm wondering what exactly in the brain the Lyme is affecting, etc. Like are they brain cells, or just some other cells.
Not sure if anyone can fill in any of these blanks, but my main point is that most cells die eventually, so you'd think if you stayed on Bicillin long enough, you'd be okay with most of the intracellular bugs. Maybe that's why people don't start doing really well until 6 months to a year on it.
However, a month wouldn't cut it.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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Also, regarding what coltman was saying about intracellular form, here are my thoughts.....
I'm kind of surprised I haven't seen this brought up before. Maybe I just don't understand the way the human body works. But my understanding is that there is "turn-over" of cells. For example, red blood cells live 120 days. Liver cells live 200 days, etc.
You are correct that there is cell turnover, but it does not affect the intracell bacteria that much - it can infect other cells before cell dies. Also many bacteria inhibit apoptosis and make cell live longer than they are supposed to
quote: So I don't understand why it matters whether an antibiotic penetrates cells to get the intracellular form or not, just as long as you are on something like Bicillin long enough for most of your infected cells to have died.
Bacteria doesnt just sit in cells doing nothing. L-form are capable of replicating and spreading.
quote: Because I'd have to assume that when the cell dies, the bacterial form inside of it is then susceptible to Bicillin.
Not necessarily. - l-forms are generally not affected by Cell wall inhibiting ABX ,so even after cell dies bacteria that was inside can still spread.
quote: Not sure if anyone can fill in any of these blanks, but my main point is that most cells die eventually, so you'd think if you stayed on Bicillin long enough, you'd be okay with most of the intracellular bugs. Maybe that's why people don't start doing really well until 6 months to a year on it.
I think it is possible to get well on single abx -if your immune system picks up the tab. But given how persistent chronic infections are (not just BB) my bet is that most people just bring the numbers down without eliminating it.
Anyways given that it is a proven fact about multiple resistant forms , why give it more chances to survive ? Also there are more risk of resistance building up if using mono abx
I think it is much more likely than not that CWI abx only achieve temporary remission
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
Thank you, sixgoofy!
Thanks for the info, coltman. I am actually on a macrolide antibiotic too, along with a few other things for the various infections, so I am not taking Bicillin on its own. I was just kind of wondering.
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I just double checked -Bicillin LA is the long acting one with low blood concentration. Bicillin CR is the one which reaches much higher concentration in blood: at 1.2m IU CR is 0.75 units per mL at 12 hours, LA is at 0.05
Why LA is used and administered 3 times a week? seems like using CR would be more logical choice with that schedule
What am I missing?
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Interesting thread. I am going to ask my LLMD about Bicillin this week.
Posts: 770 | From USA | Registered: Jul 2006
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Hoosiers51
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Member # 15759
posted
My guess is that if the LA is very long-acting (like say it stays in the body for....1 week? 2 weeks?), that by doing it multiple times a week, you are getting higher concentration (so maybe the 0.05 would get up to 0.15 eventually if doing it 3 X per week), but still with the benefit of knowing you will never be without it in your system.
So I'm guessing the shots will piggy-back each other to eventually become more concentrated than one would....if you do multiple ones during the time the first is still active. But that depends on how "long acting" it really is.
For example, if you're doing 3 per week, and one LA shot lasts 3 weeks.....you would really be getting some good concentrations, I'd think. Right?
Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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At last yrs. ILADS Lyme conference one of the drs. that spoke said Bicillin LA would be a choice. However, he would use 3 abx. This is according to a post at CanLyme. Somebody who went took notes.
Here is the excerpt: "Dr. H said that if he could only do one regimen on a patient with lyme it would be bicillin LA shots/plaquenil/biaxin combo. He said that bicillin is one of the best antibiotics you can go with. "
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
coltman, I think there's something in the literature about syphillis and the CR form of bicillin, so they treat LYme the same way- for some reason the CR wasn't as effective. That's if I remember it right.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
COltman- did you order from the Russian pharmacy yet? It looks like a great price in line with what you were hearing from Russians. Incidentally, my Russian half-brother, whom I don't know, just contacted me on Facebook. Anyway- did you check out whether this place is legit for orders to the USA?
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
posted
I've been on Bicillin LA for a couple of years and I have to say it's the only thing that has worked for me. I was able to get off of it for about 6 months but had to go back on it.
I take a shot in each hip once a week and that works great for me. Unfortunately, my dr has moved to another city so I haven't been able to get them for almost 3 weeks. I hate to say I'm not feeling well and I'm desperately needing my shots.
I haven't taken any other abx with the bicillin the whole time. I have wondered if I would do better with a combination. Now, I have to find another dr willing to give me the shots. I'm afraid that may be hard to find as most drs here don't believe in chronic lyme.
Posts: 495 | From KY USA | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by MariaA: coltman, I think there's something in the literature about syphillis and the CR form of bicillin, so they treat LYme the same way- for some reason the CR wasn't as effective. That's if I remember it right.
Hmm seems it is because syphillis is treated by single injection of Bicillin LA. Because it is only single injection the longest acting form is used and CR considered "ineffective" because it wont work as single injection (has to be 4 or even more)
I actually read a few different protocol for treating syphillis, it depends what form of penicillin you use its half life and concentration in blood.
There was one in Soviet Union which used very short acting form of penicillin ( I guess due to its cheapness) the injections are done ever 4 hours(including nights) for 30 days (talk about brutal protocol ). And then it was replaced by the ones with less injections as more long acting forms of penicillin are available
In light of all this kinda makes little sense to me to use LA if you do frequent injection schedule . Unless like hoosier noted it is by the way of gradual accumulation of LA that it reaches higher concentration . Still CR looks better if you inject 3 times a week
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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