posted
Does anyone know if there are any negative effects to being treated with hydrocortisone for low cortisol while being treated for lyme and babesia? I go to an alternative medical doctor who is putting me on it (a low dose of 5 mgs. upon waking and 5 mgs. at noon)for low morning cortisol. I wanted to make sure it wouldn't counterract or weaken my lyme/babs treatment. Has anyone had any experience with this?
I am currently taking for lyme/babs: Malarone, Biaxin and Bactrim DS.
-------------------- Shelly Posts: 73 | From New Jersey | Registered: Apr 2009
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Keebler
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posted
- Some lyme patients do much better with low dose hydrocortisone as you describe. It should give your body more energy to fight the infection.
The dose that you have been prescribed is totally in line with what many LLMDs prescribe so I think you will be fine.
---
There have been a few rather extensive threads on this subject, some recently.
You can search "Hydrocortisone" in the subject line of the medical forum and find much more on this - and on other adrenal support.
You would also want to do a search on "Cortef" the pharmaceutical name.
Topic: Hydrocortisone -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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CherylSue
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Is that the same as cortef? What about Isocort? My new LLMD spoke about low adrenals, too. However, I think the hydrocortisone was bad because that is what another doc had given me in shots for a frozen shoulder. My new doc didn't like that and said it could make viruses grow crazy.
What is the difference between cortef and hydrocortisone? Anyone?
Posts: 1954 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2007
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cactus
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posted
I take low dose hydrocortisone for Addison's Disease (adrenal insufficiency).
Fighting Lyme and co's undiagnosed for 20+ years was more than my adrenals could handle.
Finally - after a few years of "adrenal fatigue" my adrenals quit working completely.
I wish I had known that it was happening - and could have supported the adrenals and perhaps prevented the need to take hydrocortisone for life.
But - I didn't. And there's no point second-guessing.
If your morning cortisol is low, and you take a low dose of hydocortisone (generic for Cortef), then it will likely make your mornings a much better place.
At least that was my experience.
You don't want to take large doses of hydrocortisone - or any steroid. There is a fine line there.
The steroid shots you received were not good because steroids lower your immune system and Lyme flourishes.
But taking a very low dose - because your body is not producing that amount - that is different.
Keeping the dose a physiologic dose is the key.
Getting treatment for my adrenal problems was what made my Lyme treatment finally turn the corner and started the beginning of many improvements.
Just my experience on the adrenal issue...
Hope you feel better soon.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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Keebler
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Books at the link above explain the specifics with very dose use by LLMDs for lyme patients who are very near adrenal failure.
It also explains why shots as CherylSue describes can be devastating and are strongly advised against by LLMDs. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Yep, cortef is just the brand name for hydrocortisone. I've been on it for about 7yrs. Been off abx for Lyme and babesia for 5 yrs.
I had no problems during treatment while on it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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massman
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posted
And the oh so wildman called massman will say how about helping the adrenals HEAL instead of just stimulating them with drugs ? It is often possible.
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Keebler
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- Massman,
Good point.
Many links about other adrenal supplements are at that other link. Lots of books, lots of information on Ashwagandha, Siberian Ginseng, Cordyceps, Curcumin and Rhodiola as well as lnks on Adaptogens in general.
Still, sometimes, even with good rest and support measures, some patients need more. It is my understanding that the very low dose cortef gives the adrenals a little bit of a rest rather than stimulating them as higher doses do.
The information on Curcumin posted at the other thread sounds like it could be a very good thing. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Tradional herbs stimulate or sedate. But hormone glands are programmed to do different things at different times.
I am starting to realize that the concept of healing and getting an organ to do it's job correctly is pretty foreign here.
I feel the need for "more" is really getting the organ(s) to heal more.
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sammy
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Member # 13952
posted
massman, do you have any specific suggestions for helping our organs, the adrenals, heal?
Do you think that supplements like "Adrecor" by Neuroscience support healthy function of the adrenals?
Please share more if you can. Thanks:)
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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massman
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posted
Let me access some info about Adrecor.
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massman
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posted
I have tried to explain before about the differences between supplements but I am not sure why so few listen and take action.
Perhaps it sounds like mine is better than yours. Or perhaps little interest because I mention they are only available through health pros.
On a recent thread about yeast I highly recommended a book and someone replied they had gotten the book from a previous recommendation of mine and "found nothing new." I have trouble believing that as I have never seen one like it.
I then asked if they had followed the recommended protocol. No reply at all.
I make zero money from books or supplements recommended.
And LOL on some of the waiting times and fees for LLMDs who pretty much do not have or have not had lyme. Perhaps I should charge tons of $$$ for consults and supplements and I will be taken seriously !
Thanks for listening to that rant.
I was a rep for Systemic Formulas of Ogden UT for about7 years. The founder, Dr. A. S. Wheelwright (deceased so I can list the name) went to every populated continent and studied herbs with local native healers.
He blended herbs to greatly reduce or eliminate side effects and also to match the specific vibration rate (resonant frequency) of each organ. So the organ is supported chemically and energetically.
The Ga supplement is specifically blended for the adrenals. The support (bioenergetically) is to help it remodel and heal. It is, essentially, an energetic blue print of a healthy adrenal to model itself after.
After remodeling support may be needed (not much)intermittently or not at all. A program my last 2 to 4 months, depending on the individual.
"New Dimensions in Herbal Healing" by Jack Tips ND is a great explanation of Doc Wheelwrights work. To find a practitioner near you call 800-445-4647. Systemic site is www.systemicformulas.com
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I am trying adrecor now , I have to take 4 a day, I just started and it does help a little but too early to tell, I think it has an adaptagen in there also. I do think when I take it I can focus better.
I have also tried that Ga adrenal supplement from systemic formulas for a long time, if I took it in the evening it did help me sleep for a little while, but it did not build my adrenals at all. I have taken almost all the systemic formulas and they were not helpful.
Posts: 187 | From FL | Registered: Nov 2007
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Lymeorsomething
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Member # 16359
posted
5-10 mgs of cortef is nothing to worry about. I was running 20 mgs for three months and had no sides outside of a little increase in hunger. I can't say it helped me at all though.
It's a hit or miss proposition. May or may not help but it's worth a trial run at times.
Keep in mind that you want Cortef and never synthetics like Prednisone, which are much, much stronger.
-------------------- "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Posts: 2062 | From CT | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
I agree, I have tried almost every herbal and adaptagen and if this Adrecor doesnt make improvements then I would consider the Cortef, so I wouldn't feel bad about trying it,
So many naturopaths want to heal it naturally but its been like 7 yrs for me, I cannot exercise, and cant hardly move for days, I cannot do daily tasks like laundry and cooking, barely get out of the house ever I dont see how this is good
Posts: 187 | From FL | Registered: Nov 2007
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posted
I agree, I have tried almost every herbal and adaptagen and if this Adrecor doesnt make improvements then I would consider the Cortef, so I wouldn't feel bad about trying it,
So many naturopaths want to heal it naturally but its been like 7 yrs for me, I cannot exercise, and cant hardly move for days, I cannot do daily tasks like laundry and cooking, barely get out of the house ever I dont see how this is good
Posts: 187 | From FL | Registered: Nov 2007
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massman
Unregistered
posted
laceyj - how was it determined what you might need ? Symptom survey ? Muscle testing ? Electronic testing ? Sclerology ?
Any combination of the above ?
Reason I ask is that you may have some adrenal symptoms but if the pituitary or hypothalamus (which are above the adrenals in the hormone "chain of command") are not well they can be causing the problem.
How much training did the practitioner have with Systemic Formua products ? Was the practitioner an ND ?
And did the practitioner or staff assess you ?
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Cass A
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Member # 11134
posted
Well, just to chime in, my LLMD wanted me to get low-dose hydrocortisone to take BRIEFLY so that my adrenals would get the message that they should do more.
I haven't started that yet, as I'm currently taking the Allergie-Immun drops.
We'll see what I need when that is done.
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I have been to over 200 doctors , medical and some of the best naturopaths
my blood work showed low cortisol also had saliva test confirmed by electrodermal hair analysis, you name it , I had it done and while on the systemic formula my adrenals went from stage 5 to 7 basically nonfunctioning, not that it wont work for somebody else, but i have tried every brand of supplements, i think once they get to a certain point they are not going to respond that way
yes i do believe the hypothalmus and pituitary are effected by lyme and have taken stuff for that too
Posts: 187 | From FL | Registered: Nov 2007
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massman
Unregistered
posted
laceyj thats an awful lot of docs.
If you have been treating for say 10 years that means 20 docs per year. Or a new doc every 2.5 weeks.
Since many docs recommend programs lasting many months to a year how the heck could you stay on their recommended supplements ?
Your math says to me you are here to say things, especially Systemic Formulas, do not work well.
IME as a natural health pro for 25 years, I have seen those using Systemic for many types of health problems have an 85% success rate.
So not everyone, not all, are helped.
But your math really confuses me. And I have studied enough math professionally to choke the proverbial horse.
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seekhelp
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posted
OMG that's a lot of docs!
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Shelly,
Assuming the link below is for the product you asked about . . .
I've not used that but looked up the ingredients and see no problems. In fact, it's pretty darned impressive and a very fair price.
Just one note: Normally, astragalus is for acute lyme and should not be taken by those with chronic lyme as it can be too stimulating for the immune system. However, in a combined formula with other things to balance that out, it is alright and even is in a lyme support formula elsewhere.
As for the amount of astragalus, I think it should be fine with all the others to balance it out but if you start to feel too stimulated, back down in dose or look then for an adrenal product without it.
I've used everything in this formula except for the devil's club and I have researched that and nothing unusual stands out in my memory.
You can search PubMed for each of the ingredients if you like, too.
Note, that the dose is for two capsules. It's always a good idea to start with ONE, say at breakfast or lunch. Not dinner. I'd keep to one a day for a while before increasing.
I can't find what else may be in the capsules - I always like to see that. But you can call them and ask, I suppose.
I am just giving my experience. I did not know my medical history was on trial.
85% is miraculous healing for those with severe depletions. I must be part of the 15%.
I was using hyperbole when I stated I have been to 200 doctors. I certainly did not do all their treatments. Everyone knows with lyme, by the time you finally get a diagnosis you've been everywhere. For most, by then they're adrenals are shot.
I have been sick for about 15-20 years. My best naturopath with over 30 yrs experience uses Systemic Formula and many other brands. It is a good brand.
All product reps are sincere and are fully convinced of the efficacy of whatever their product line is. In fact, homeopathic doctors, naturopathic, internist, anti aging, nutritionists, herbalist, iridologists, energy medicine, chiropractors, neurologists, endocrinolgists,... all have strong belief systems and conflicting opinions and believe they are correct. They all see healing in 85%, otherwise would not remain in business.
Placebo is strong...but i believe borellia, babesia, erlichia, mycoplasma, and rickettsia to be much stronger
I do not want anyone to go through the years of suffering I went through. Because I chose to stick with natural supplements as they are SUPPOSE to work, I depleted my adrenals even more. And the biggest heartbreak is I lost out on life, friends, and raising a family.
I regret that I wasted all these years and maybe if I had tried the low dose Cortisol earlier in diagnosis, I would not have lost all those years. Not to mention , all the money thrown out the window.
Lifestyle is also key, But not everyone has the luxury to stay home, no stress, catch up on sleep, plenty of money, and no worries . In that case waiting to heal and having energy doesnt matter.
I think we should just learn what does work from everyone so we can try it. I think the low dose cortef question is a good valid question and wish we had more studies done on it with lyme.
Posts: 187 | From FL | Registered: Nov 2007
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seekhelp
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posted
Massman, I still want to know have you had TBIs and beat them? I don't believe you responded to my post on another thread. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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sparkle7
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posted
massman - sounds kind of like a wind up to promote the products.
For some, drugs work. For others, natural approaches work. I don't really see that we need to say all of one approach is good or bad. There are alot of factors involved.
Maybe we could just use to mind to promote healing of the adrenals & we don't need to buy anything? Some people believe this...
Does it work? Who knows...
I like herbal remedies & natural approaches but when I'm really in pain, nothing helps me like Vicodin or Oxycontin...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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massman
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posted
laceyj - you absolutely do not understand why Systemics are different. Sorry.
And you say that all chiros, neuros etc "think" their patients have an 85% success rate. Cant agree with you less. I trained with other docs who concentrated on getting good to great results.
Results from specific results on low backs, headaches, carpal tunnel, breathing problems, scattered periods, trouble getting pregnant, all types of allergies, energy and more.
And if what I used did not work I continued to search and learn new effective ways to help.
We see and experience things pretty differently so try another 200 docs...
sparkle - as I have posted in other threads I make zero from the supplements and books I reccomend. Drugs cannot really heal many things.
Perhaps I should list myself as a LLDC and charge $1000 for an initial visit. I spent a good chunk of today finding practitioners who do electrodermal screening, talking with them and PMing some on this site to get them together with those docs. No $$$ from that either.
When in bad pain what works is fine. I do it.
It is annoying to see so many people try so many drugs with poor results - that is a major reason why I suggest other approaches.
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seekhelp
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Massman, I still am eager to know this. I'm not trying to cause issues seriously. I just am curious about YOUR personal experience from a patient perspective. All I can gather is you are/were in the chiropractic field. I'm not sure if you missed my question.
quote:Originally posted by seekhelp: Massman, I still want to know have you had TBIs and beat them? I don't believe you responded to my post on another thread.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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massman
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posted
seekhelp - thanks. My lyme brain lost the thread that post was in.
TBDs, babesia and lyme. Not sure on the time. In retrospect could be close to 40 years. As a teenager (late 50s now) and thru 20s and early 30s spent almost every weekend and all vacations outside.
Cross country skiing, canoeing, kayaking, camping, flyfishing spring, summer and fall.
No specific tick bite I recall. But was in good shape but energy began to fluctuate a lot about 1985. Got very good education 2005 about lyme from Jean Reist RN from PA.
Began to feel it may apply to me so got EDS tested which confirmed babs and lyme. That started me reviewing the past.
Did pretty well with Systemic Formulas but began to slide backwards about 15 months ago (without much treatment). Was in pretty poor shape last Nov till May, now not too much pain but lots of fatigue, some visual problems. Was detoxing heavy metals with bentonite clay during Nov-May.
Starting with liver support and very mild detox and kidney support as soon as the stuff arrives - ordered last week.
Did understand it, was typing the reply to you when I posted.
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seekhelp
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Thanks for the history. I'm sorry you had a backslide, but I hope the renewed treatment gets you back on the path to recovery. Did you have any labs to confirm the EDS findings?
That's my fear about heavy metal detox as well...backsliding.
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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massman
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posted
IMO the labwork is pretty useless. EDS is fine for me.
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massman
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posted
And seekhelp since lyme is a clinical diagnosis that is done without lab work.
History, family history, perhaps symptom surveys, observations of the patient by the doc, physical exam and other methods chosen that do not use labs.
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quote:Originally posted by massman: And seekhelp since lyme is a clinical diagnosis that is done without lab work.
But labs do exist though. Did you do any? Were any lyme specific bands detected?
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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massman
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posted
coltman - I did not waste my time and money.
I used EDS plus later Dr. B's symptom survey.
We know that lyme is a physically evasive bug and how poor many of the current tests lab tests are.
Why are so many docs and patients stuck on having to have a positive lab test ?
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seekhelp
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I think because you can go into many medical diagnostic sites/tools and find 800 conditions which have symptoms quite similar. I wish I had that high level of confidence in symptoms only. How many LLMDs would be their LIVES on their patient diagnosis?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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sparkle7
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massman- your symptoms occurred around the same time CFS was starting to gain momentum. For me too, I became ill around 1989. The new theory is about this XMRV pathogen...
I'm not convinced that electo screening is all that accurate. I heard an interview with someone who studied it & did not get good results as to accuracy with this type of screening.
I've tried it. Medicine is based on faith in many ways - so, it can skew the results.
You basically have a 50-50 chance it's correct. I do not believe the lab tests are accurate, either. It's rough...
If something stops working, you have to try something new - even though you may have faith in what you are using.
Many of the symptoms of Lyme & company overlap with other illnesses. We may have Lyme or maybe it's something else or a combination of variables.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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seekhelp
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Welcome to the coin flipping club Massman. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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massman
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Yeah but.... I have had them land on their edge sometimes !
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seekhelp
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Hey, that was a Twilight Zone episode where it happened and the guy suddenly had the power to hear people's thoughts out loud. Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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