I am living in Germany, and my doctor prescribed me some more "Factive" because I had a massive improvement in May/June through it. (Which was over in August, "of course" .... )
Does anybody know it? And I'm confused again, becuase they have the same postal address and telephone number as this one: www.abconlinepharmacy.com
Now what's that? 1 firm with 2 different websites? Seems a little strange ....
Any ideas where to get "Factive" elsewhere? Maybe a reasonable online pharmacy from the US?
Many thanks in advance & greetings from Germany, Guido
P.S.: The big trouble is: "Factive" is not yet allowed for sale here in Europe (yet, it IS allowed to import it). If I order it via an International Pharmacy here in Germany, 1 tablet costs me 40,- Euro, that is US-$60.- . Yes: no kidding. I repeat: 1 tablet = $60.- . Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Yes, okay, thanks a lot! But somehow, it looks as if the pharmacies were all rated the same on PharmacyChecker.com
Anyway, I am astounded how unpopular "Factive"/Gemifloxacin seems to be in North America in Lyme therapy. To my knowledge, it is the only AB besides Minocyclin that infiltrates cells *and* the cerebrospinal fluid. And what's more: the activity against Borrelia is proven in vitro ( http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/45/9/2486 ).
Which bears a little irony, because the generic, "Gemez" is only sold in packages of 50 tablets and more. Who will need this except us?? Any "normal" infection will be solved with either a package of 5 or 7 original "Factive" tablets.
We were so glad if we had it allowed for sale in Europe!
Best regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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They say: "Our study aimed at determining the in vitro activities of 15 quinolones against nine isolates of the Borrelia burgdorferi sensu lato complex in addition to one Borrelia valaisiana and one Borrelia bissettii tick isolate."
So they obviously didn't have Bb sensu stricto in their vitro or what? Now, you all don't have these other "senso lato guys" in North America, do you?
Now is that fair? We have the pathogen and you have the remedy. Isn't that crazy .... ?
But there must have been someone who tested Bb sensu stricto and Gemi in vitro ....
Best regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Guido: To my knowledge, it is the only AB besides Minocyclin that infiltrates cells *and* the cerebrospinal fluid. And what's more: the activity against Borrelia is proven in vitro ( http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/45/9/2486 ).
Roxithromycin does too. Anyways I personally not too fond of fluorquinolones. They have the most dangerous side effect profile (tendons,dna damage etc etc) and highest occurrence of those side effects. They also are one of top 3 abx causing c. dificile (other ones are amoxy and broad spectrum cephalosporins)
I would go with aminglycosides first if I want "dangerous" abx
All things considered for long term abx treatment fluorquinolones are among the last on my list .
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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quote:Originally posted by coltman: .... Roxithromycin does too. .... I would go with aminglycosides first if I want "dangerous" abx
All things considered for long term abx treatment fluorquinolones are among the last on my list . ....
For Roxi, it is not sure if it acts against Borrelia at all, as far as I know. And who wants "dangerous ABx", anyway?
After all, it always comes down to trial and error. I have tried "Factive" and tolerated it very well for 8 weeks. And it was the best stuff I had up to know.
And from my experience, no AB lasts much longer than maybe 8 or 10 weeks although you keep taking it. Otherwise this would be the solution: just take the stuff that has an impact as long until you're healthy again. But that's exactly how it does *not* work.
Anyway, I don't want a debate on principles. I want an Online Pharmacy and my "Factive" back!
Best regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
Up for one of our newer members.
Does any one know any on line pharmacies to suggest to him?
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
If you insist freedom-pharmacy.com/Products2.asp?Brand=GEMEZ+%28+Factive%2C+Generic+Gemifloxacin+%29&T=a
- I ordered from this place before .2 weeks shipping - if you ask me that is pretty good as far as online pharmacies go .
quote: For Roxi, it is not sure if it acts against Borrelia at all, as far as I know.
Ohh it does. Actually there is a german study about roxi+bactrim, as very effective against borrellia.
I gave links to it on this forum a few times - if you google you will find abstracts plenty (lost the link to full study but it exists too)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
coltman, offer help genuinely free of your own judgment.
You made your point about Roxi and it's great of you to share this info but if he tried the other ABX and wants to try it again why were you holding back and now only giving it begrudgingly???
We all come here for help and support and hope to get it in a warm and friendly manner.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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quote:Originally posted by Abxnomore: coltman, offer help genuinely free of your own judgment.
You made your point about Roxi and it's great of you to share this info but if he tried the other ABX and wants to try it again why were you holding back and now only giving it begrudgingly???
We all come here for help and support and hope to get it in a warm and friendly manner.
And your point is? I mean lets see -
1) you flame me 2) provide no useful information in this thread relevant to question asked 3) Lecture me about "warm and friendly" manner
You helped me personally a few times here - I appreciate it, but really posts like yours above imhho are not really conductive towards constructive discussion. What was the point of it? Aside flaming me?
We are all adults here, if you dont like my suggestions just ignore them. Or maybe I should just shut up as it seems I do not conform to your own standards of "warm and friendly manner"
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
I think the point I made was very clear; let's help and be supportive in a giving manner.
It was not my attention to flame you, I'm sorry if you felt that I did. I was just making a suggestion.
I was surprised to find this post just about to go onto page two without much input, when I know many here do have information about on- line pharmacies.
Your reply began with: "If you insist"?? I found that wording odd. Perhaps you do not.
I do not wish for you to shut up, I do not wish you to conform to my standards and I don't believe I suggested that. If you feel you need to PM me, than please so do.
I'm happy that you had a Pharmacy to suggest for this poster and thank you for your help in this instance.
I'll take this opportunity to thank you for your participation on and contributions to Lymenet.
[ 10-27-2009, 09:11 AM: Message edited by: Abxnomore ]
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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If I take dangerous "Factive", then it will be the original.
Okay: I guess it was me who started all the fuss, because I asked why "Factive" is so unpopular in Lyme therapy.
Anyway, coltman, you act as if it was me who decides what I take! I'll have to take what my doctor offers. I asked him: he is German and knows all German studies, and he doesn't see any sense in trying Roxy on me. Anyway, this discussion is just *not* helpful for me.
Thanks, abxnomore, you're really kind!
Best regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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You think it is dangerous because it is from india? I dunno - india has great pharmaceutical industry, I haven't heard anything bad in particular about indian pharma. In fact the opposite - it is praised as being one of the best tech sectors india has to offer.
So I personally don't have a problem taking indian made drug (and did take them before - lots of drugs in Russia come from india due to our long history of economic partnership and indian drugs are actually considered pretty high quality)
Btw does your doctor says indian drugs are dangerous? or you just dont trust india?
And otherwise I was just making sure you know about fluorquinolones sides. They are considered to be one the worst and dangerous abx side effects wise.
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
uh, what's "factive"?
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Hey Guido,
It looks like the LLMD's here use Factive more to treat coinfections.
Reasons why it is not used more often might be cost and accessibility. I was on Factive for a couple months and I do believe that it helped me.
My insurance did not want to cover this med because there are cheaper alternatives available. I had to pay $60 every 5 days to get the Factive refilled. Insurance would not approve more than 5 pills at a time because anything beyond that was labeled "experimental". To me, $360 per month is a very high copay for an oral medication.
It is also not widely advertised or distributed here making it more difficult for our pharmacies to locate and keep in stock.
If you do a quick search here (near the top of the page) you will see that other posts have been made about Factive over the past several months. There are a lot of mixed opinions on it, as there are on all of the meds discussed here. It either helps or it doesn't.
Guido, I'm glad to hear that Factive has been so effective for you, stick with it. I hope that you are able to find a trustworthy pharmacy to order you prescriptions from. If I need to go back on Factive I will probably have to try the online route also.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by coltman: .... Btw does your doctor says indian drugs are dangerous? or you just dont trust india? ....
Yes. I have seen it, I was trying it 4 days until I felt really, really strange. It is not manufacutered in India for the Canadian market, it is a direct-import from India, manufactured for the Indian market. And no: I don't trust Indian quality standards. They have so much substances going around the food chain that are long forbidden in Europe and the US.
And for the Roxy: I just twisted it. It acts against Borrelia, but it does not reach the liqour.
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by sammy: .... Guido, I'm glad to hear that Factive has been so effective for you, stick with it. I hope that you are able to find a trustworthy pharmacy to order you prescriptions from. ....
Why is it so hard to just drop a few names of trustworthy online pharmacies, be it US or Canada? And then I'll see if they will ship Factive to Germany. Or is this not allowed here in public??
Thanks in advance, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by randibear: uh, what's "factive"?
It's Gemifloxacin: 1 of 2 available ABx that infiltrates the cells *and* the liquor. I see that also in the US, it is not yet approved for Lyme. But it wouldn't be the only AB used for which this applies ....
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:hy is it so hard to just drop a few names of trustworthy online pharmacies, be it US or Canada? And then I'll see if they will ship Factive to Germany. Or is this not allowed here in public??
Sorry I dont know any other stores which have factive at reasonable prices and without prescription. That store has it cheapest (from what I found) and I personally ordered from them they fullfilled the order fine. too bad that you dont like that its indian made.
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Guido,
We are certainly allowed to share the names of trusted brands and pharmacies. Unfortunately, most of the people that frequent this board live here in the USA.
Most of us get our prescriptions filled and purchase our meds at local pharmacies (CVS, Walmart, Costco, Walgreens, etc). We also have to deal with insurance companies that dictate where we can get our prescriptions filled and how much it will cost.
I have no experience using any mail order or online pharmacies, US or Canada. That is why I cannot give you any specific recommendations.
While I was on Factive, I thought about trying a Canadian pharmacy because my copay was so expensive. I tried weeding through the information available online but it is hard to know what is safe and true.
That is when I found pharmacychecker.com. I found the site to be helpful and informative. That is why I shared it with you. It was the best information that I knew to give.
Another reason that I have not been able to try online/mail order pharmacies is that my doctor likes to change protocols frequently. He only gives prescriptions for 30day supply. Since I f/u with him once a month, I need to get the meds filled ASAP. I cannot wait several weeks for my medication to arrive in the mail.
So Guido, that was my long wordy way of saying i'm sorry I cannot be more of a help to you. I have shared all that I know.
Please let us know when you find an online pharmacy that you like so that we can learn from your experience too.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
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quote:Originally posted by coltman: Sorry I dont know any other stores which have factive at reasonable prices and without prescription. ....
I said "trustworthy", and I have a prescription, too (even though a German one). A "trustworthy" online pharmacy that sells prescription drugs without prescription is a contradiction in itself.
Anyway, you have a great sense of humor: telling me that "Factive" is dangerous, and then recommending me the generic from India ....
"I have a great fear of flying, but if I have to, I alwyas choose Kazakh Air, because it's the cheapest way."
Forgive me: I'm German ....
Regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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quote:Originally posted by sammy: .... While I was on Factive, I thought about trying a Canadian pharmacy because my copay was so expensive. I tried weeding through the information available online but it is hard to know what is safe and true. ....
And a *real* trustworthy US online pharmacy like www.cvs.com would only accept US prescriptions and only ship to US addresses (or US military bases overseas). Let's see if I know somebody in Ramstein or Landstuhl: it's not far from here ....
Anyway, I now ordered 25 tablets here: www.onlinecanadarx.com (They have a postal address in Vancouver. They are also approved by PharmacyChecker.com)
Then I'll have to see at FDA, if "Factive" maybe is discontinued at all. That would mean that it's really dangerous, "coltman"!
Oh, and of course, I could get it here via an International pharmacy, but did I mention that 1 tablet then is US-$60.- (yes: sixty!). That makes US-$420.- copay a week (yes: a week). I still don't know who gets all this money: if it is EU customs or the pharmacist or if it's both having a ball ....
Best regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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posted
This bashing of Indian pharmaceuticals stinks of ignorance. Do you realize they are making a large portion of the generic medications available in the United States? There is nothing inherently wrong with them because they are cheaper.
Pick a given Indian drug and do a little homework into the manufacturer. I guarantee you will be impressed by the global scale of operations, facilities and quality control standards used by these Indian companies.
Over and over again I see these kneejerk reactions and it sickens me. Lyme is an expensive disease already without falsely prohibiting inexpensive sources of medication.
Posts: 195 | From Manchester, CT | Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:Originally posted by FunkOdyssey: .... This bashing of Indian pharmaceuticals stinks of ignorance. Do you realize they are making a large portion of the generic medications available in the United States? ....
First of all: I tried it and I felt very, very strange and sick in contrast to the original "Factive". Of course, it doesn't have to be bad just because it comes from India (that was why I tried it).
However, as I said above, it remains a big difference if something is produced for the European or US market (and is FDA approved for example) or if it is produced for the Indian market. And this is the case here: "Gemez" is *not* allowed for sale in Canada or the US. (It remains a mystery why you can order it in Canada, though.)
And this applies for everything: be it clothes or car parts or drugs. The quality control is what's crucial.
And if something is produced in India for the Indian market, I frankly don't trust Indian quality standards enough, and this applies particularly for drugs. Period.
Anyway: thanks for the helpful and constructive discusssion ....
Regards, Guido
Posts: 99 | From Koblenz, Germany | Registered: Oct 2009
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