Topic: Bee Venom ointment may be very effective against lyme
bejoy
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posted
Hi friends.
I'm just checking in to see if anyone else has tried Venex bee venom ointment yet. It was a very powerful treatment for me, and I think responsible in large part for my rapid recovery.
(Apparently less than one year treatment after more than 20 years of lyme. Three and a half months remission, so far so good.)
My neuro symptoms diminished significantly while using it, as rapidly as they did with pennicilin G injections taken with Flagyl.
There is no research out on lyme disease treatment and this product. There is limited and favorable research on bee venom injections and lyme disease.
Dr K. in Washington uses bee products regularly with his patients, but I am not aware of any other LLMD's who use bee venom.
I used Venex because it made sense to me, seeing how well people with MS seem to respond to it, and how well Dr. K.'s patients seem to respond to it. I had great results.
It is inexpensive, and painless, doesn't promote candida, but does cause some itching for about 20 minutes.
Using this product is personal research on your own body, because scientific research isn't out there yet for bee venom ointment and lyme disease.
I wouldn't hesitate to suggest it, however, because I found it to be so powerful, but I'd use a much lower daily dose than the package recommends.
I'm trying to keep track of other people who have used it with some success. I think it is an amazing treatment. I would like to see it be researched and become a more standard part of effective treatment.
I want to see knowledge of this product stay available, for those who may be interested in trying it.
(Other products I personally found to be the most powerfully beneficial for me were Pennicilin G injections with Metronidazole, Deseret Biologicals series homeopathic remedies, and Cortef for adrenals.)
For more info, please do a search on bee venom, because this topic has been covered here in a few other posts.
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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I've been unable to find exactly which `essential oils' they put in the Venex ointment - I can't find that info on their website. Do you know?
I would also be interested in ordering some of their homeopathic been venom, but there are no clear descriptions of their `remedies' on the website.
Like others here, I can't remember where you applied the ointment, how often, etc.
-------------------- Tracy .... Prayers for the Lyme Community - every day at 6 p.m. Pacific Time and 9 p.m. Eastern Time � just take a few moments to say a prayer wherever you are�. Posts: 2966 | From Colorado | Registered: Dec 2005
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The harder you work the luckier you get! Posts: 965 | From Nebraska Cornhuskers fan in Massachusetts | Registered: Dec 2007
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oxygenbabe
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Thats a good point Tracy. Why does he put essential oils in the bee venom ointment? I'm sensitive to some of those.
Posts: 2276 | From united states | Registered: Jun 2004
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lymie_in_md
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This therapy looks very interesting, but I agree caution should be taken. I don't believe for myself I'm allergic to bee venom, I've been stung enough times without a reaction. But some are allergic and to be safe all should be tested before starting the treatment.
I found the following links helpful as far as what the therapy is and how to take precautions.
Venex ointment is a topical cream. It itches for about twenty minutes when you rub it on the skin.
After I used it for several weeks, it stopped itching. It has a homeopathic in it. I imagine I would no longer react to bee stings.
The essential oils are frangrance. I don't know which oes they use, but you could call them. The stuff smells great.
You can phone them and talk to the owner, Michael Simichs (sp?) He is very nice and knowledgeable. He did tell me that the ointment is not considered a lyme disease treatment, and they recommend injections.
I wanted to start here because no prescription or training is necessary. You can order it yourself. I had intended to go on to injections, but didn't need to.
You apply it by squeezing an amount out on a plastic ruler. It is dosed by the inch. I found the most helpful dose for me was 1/4 inch once a day in the morning, spread out among my most painful places. (Much lower dose than the package suggests.)
The higher dose induced some of the worst neuro herxes I experienced during my treatments. It also made me high and gave me energy right after I used it, and helped get my adrenals functioning again.
I felt that applications to the back of my neck impacted my neuro symptoms the most.
I didn't personally take bee venom with antibiotics, but I only took prescription abx (pennicilin G injections with Metronidazole) for about six to eight weeks. I don't see any problem with doing it at the same time, unless it is too much of a herx all at once.
I have a hunch (only a hunch based on one small bit of research, and my own muscle testing) that bee venom breaks down lyme cysts.
I just want to repeat that I think this stuff is really great, but if you use it you are doing your own experiment on your own body.
Thanks for contributing to this bit of informal research or polling.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
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Sounds interesting...
I guess this would be a good way to see if it helps without going through a big deal (finding a doctor who does this sort of thing, etc.). The skin is an organ which can absorb many things.
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heiwalove
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i'm really interested in this bejoy, and i plan to ask my ART practitioner about it when i see her this coming week.
hiker53
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posted
bejoy,
I see several bee venom ointments listed on the web site you gave. Can you be specific as to which one you bought? Thanks. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8878 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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oxygenbabe
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There has been research on mellitin (sp?) in bee venom adversely affecting the spirochete.
Bejoy it gave you energy because it increases dopamine.
I wish he didn't put essential oils in it. I may ask him to make me some without.
I've been meaning to try it though I get enough "energy" from my dark chocolate, and don't really want to be overstimulated.
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bejoy
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The product I'm referring to on the link I posted is the Venex Ointment. They list different prices according to how many tubes you buy.
I bought three tubes thinking I would go through them quickly, but I ended up using just one. It's still not expensive, all things considered.
If you have an appointment with a kinesiologist or Art practitioner, I would suggest ordering a tube and bringing it with you so he/she can test it.
That's what I did, and he helped me find the right dosage for me, even though he had not been familiar with the product. He also helped me choose and dose my antibiotics after I purchased them, even though he doesn't prescribe them.
Yes, the reason I tried this product is that I could get a sense of my reaction to bee venom without going through the whole ordeal of getting injections through a doctor. In the end, I didn't need to puncture the skin to get enough in my body.
The research on bee venom killing spirochetes is on several posts here. Maybe I'll dig it up and post the link her later on. If anyone is in the mood to get to it before I do, go for it. Got to go feed my kids now.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Today I received my Bee Venom Ointment from Venex. My first application was on my left knee since that was sore all day. Used about 1/4 inch, likely less, and rubbed it on my knee and under.
Within a few minutes the area got red. The several minutes later the knee felt better and loose. About an hour later I started to have a mild warm feeling on my left side, in my face, arm and chest. Then later the warm feeling was also in my neck.
Tomorrow I will apply to my other knee and the back of my neck. Anyone experience the warm feeling?
Also ordered some Bee Venom Honey from New ApiHealth NZ, the one with Propolis.
The combined cost was about $52 including shipping. Well worth the cost to experiment with ways to beat this diease. One MRI cost me $3,000 and my insurance paid most of that bill! The whole system is upsidedown.
Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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sparkle7
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Apihealth also sells an ointment product. I think it's alittle more $ than the Venex one.
Good luck with your treatments!
I think it's some fascinating stuff. It kills alot of pathogens including HIV, some of the herpes viruses, candida, etc. in vitro.
I don't know why more people don't know about it... maybe it's a drug/money/patent issue?
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heiwalove
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i have some but so far it hasn't ART tested well for me. will bring it back to my ART practitioner on thursday and see what she has to say.
bejoy
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I have heard that Michael S. at beevenom.com / apitherapy is hesitant to sell the ointment for lyme treatment.
He makes the ointment to treat rheumatoid symptoms, and sells injection kits by prescription for lyme treatment.
If you have rheumatoid symptoms (and what lyme afflicted individual doesn't) you may wish to order it explicitly for that purpose.
Nice also to hear from Sparkle about another brand and supplier, in case the ingredients might work better for different people.
Why is bee venom not being used more? Dr. K. in WA uses it extensively, and posts his protocol publicly on the web. He has met with Dr. B. of ILADS to collaborate, by the way.
Other LLMD's might not be inclined to use bee venom, since it is not a prescription pharmacautical.
There is enough fear out there about licensing to keep the most open minded LLMD's on a straight and narrow path, I think.
I wish there was a magic pill or juice that was right for everybody, but I don't believe there is. I think this is great stuff, but it's not going to be right for everybody all the time.
I do think that it was a major part of my healing, and it did wonders for my neuro symptoms.
Just a reminder, I personally used much less than the package directed. i used 1/4 inch once a day in the morning, according to muscle testing. The full dose gave me such a major headache!!!
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Angelica
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posted
I just ordered one tube of ointment and the owner did tell me he thought that it would not be strong enough compared to shots or bee stings but I would rather try the ointment and I am open to it working.
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sparkle7
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I guess if you have the money to find a practicioner willing to do the shots... I'm really broke so I have to choose wisely.
If you have painful areas - getting a shot or sting is not very appealing.
We'll just have to see if the ointment or bee venom honey helps people out there.
Please post your responses so we all can learn!
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
When I spoke with Michael at Venex, I told him that I learned about his products on this board because of Bejoy's posts.
When I got my Bee Venom ointment, he included a note where he was excited to read about Bejoys experiences.
Applied the ointment to the back of my neck today, and I believe I am herxing. I sure did get dizzy and clumsy. Seems like I sweated more last night also, after my first application.
Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Bejoy and Sparkle Where do you apply the ointment?
Joints, Muscles or both.
So far I've tried the Knee Joint, and the back of the neck (Spine), next I was going to try muscles.
Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
This is interesting and something I want to try. I will research and talk to the naturopath I am seeing for my first appt in 3 weeks.
bejoy - does a dr have to rx the shots?
Thank you for all your info everyone.
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NanaDubo
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I have spoken with Michael at Venex also. He said to expect the area you use the ointment on to get very red and itchy for 45 minutes or so.
He said it is important to keep the area warm where it is being used and best to lay down and rest while it works. Best in morning and not to drink coffee while using it. Dang!
He told me that you will most likely feel worse for a few days and then it will get better and better. He was referring to using it on joints, lower back etc.
I am interested in trying it on the back of my neck. Anyone out there using it in that area - please keep posting.
I think I can get my doc to get the shots for me but I want to try the ointment for a week or so first.
Heads up, if you want to buy this from him, he is about to go away for 5 weeks collecting venom.
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sparkle7
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I haven't been using the ointment - just the honey. I figured I'd try the honey first & then try the ointment if the honey worked out.
I don't want to overdo it.
The honey gave be a bit of a prickly sensation in my mouth & throat. It seems to not be as bad now. I guess I'm a bit more used to it.
I will get the ointment soon...
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bejoy
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The ointment is available without a prescription, but do be careful and use it with a friend around and have an epipen available when you first try it.
Although not likely, people could have an anaphylactic reaction, and you need to be prepared.
The injections are probably better, stronger, faster, more effective than the ointment. But not everybody is going to have access to a professional who can administer.
I'm lucky to have a friend trained in neurotherapy, and I expected to progress to injections, but never needed anything stronger than the ointment.
The injections need a physicians prescription. You can learn to do it at home, but need a professional to teach you how.
You can get names of people in your area who are trained in this from www.neuraltherapy.com
That website also has guidelines for using bee venom injections to treat lyme.
All of this is still considered experimental. There has been only one in-vitro piece of research conducted that shows that bee venom kills spirochetes.
At least one LLMD has been using bee venom for years with tremendous positive results. (That particular LLMD had lyme himself, as did his family.)
Still, many people get better from MS on bee venom. Makes you think, doesn't it.
The supplier of Venex does not process orders during the end of the summer, but I believe you can purchase his product from at least one other on-line vendor.
I applied the ointment to the back of my neck, and to my lower abdomen (because of chronic lyme cystitis.) I also occasionally spread it around to any area where I had muscle spasms.
I still use this product very occasionally, especially if seasonal allergies flare up. It seems to stimulate my system to immediately manage the allergic reactions.
I also used it after a black widow spider bite that wasn't getting better, and voila. (Nasty neurotoxin beasties!!! Thought it was a relapse at first, then realized I had a colony of another sort of eight legged nasties living in the wood pile I was cleaning out.)
It also seems to boost and heal my adrenal system, that took a hit from the spider bite and another case of strep. I can't tell you if this is a healthy and appropriate use of the product, but I like what it does for me, and it muscle tests positive as I use it this way.
Please keep posting your experiences and results. I would like to have positive and negative feedback available for those who choose to try it in the future.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
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The folks at ApiHealth process the venom so that it's non-allergic. This way people who may have allergies to bees can still use their products.
I don't know if this is the case with their ointment product.
PS - I don't make any money from sales of this brand. I just think it's a good quality product.
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Angelica
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posted
This is what Michael S. told me regarding the ointment.
I told him I thought I was allergic to bee stings so he had me describe to him what happens when I get stung. I said "If I step on a bee my foot really swells up and itches for weeks".
He told me that was actually rather typical and common and that I could use the ointment because that was not really an allergic sign.
He said people who are really allergic can get swollen throats and tongues and get diarrhea. I think I recall him saying their whole face can swell up.
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After 2 days of using the Bee Venom Ointment I had to stop. Think I over did it the 2nd day and might be herxing in a new way.
My back is sore in several places and an elbow is cranky. These places where never an issue before, so my guess is it did "kill off" some bugs. In the afternoon I seem drunk when standing up. I've also added the Solaray Yeast Cleanse. Strong stuff, I can only take 3 pills a day.
My left knee seems stronger now, that was the first place I used the ointment.
Venex Bee Venom ointment and the NZ Bee Venom Honey have cost me $52 so far, including shipping. Certainly worth trying, considering things like Bicillin, Zithromax, and Mepron cost me $2,000 a month!
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sparkle7
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Are you still on abx, Mookie?
All of these things are strong stuff. No need to rush... go slow & be sure to do anything to detoxify.
Drink lots of water, take epsom salt baths, take chlorella, zoelites, or whatever you do.
You need to be able to absorb the toxins so you can excrete them.
I'm not taking any abx.
I'm not sure how these things will react if you are also using abx.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Abx's Bicillin LA shots every other day, 10 wks. so far. Zithromax 500 mg a day.
The Bicillin makes me herx, but the Bee Venom made me feel sore for a few days.
I'll continue with the ointment in a few days. Feels like it is a good treatment.
My Lyme Dr. says most of my symptoms are neurological. I can't walk very well, my balance is off, and I'm dizzy on my feet. Figured it could be due to toxins.
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bejoy
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Hi Mookie,
I had a similar reaction to the ointment. It made my muscles relax right away, but then I got a serious backlash hours later, with lots of pain!
I thought it was from congested lymph from my body trying to clean out all the gunk, but I can't be sure.
I also got a bad headache the first week, but it went away the second week.
How much ointment did you use? I could not ever manage the full dose.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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pamoisondelune
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I've used the ointment once, yesterday, on the hands. It made my hands feel much better. They still feel good a day later. I did have headaches today.
I forgot to do it today, but will keep using it.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Angelica: He said people who are really allergic can get swollen throats and tongues and get diarrhea. I think I recall him saying their whole face can swell up.
yes, your throat and nose can swell quickly and lead to suffocation; also your heart can stop beating as a result. That's why the epipen should be at hand for these people. Read about anaphylactic shock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis
(I had one caused by ceftriaxon IV treatment, so I know what I'm talking about ...)
More info about bee venom (research) on Stephen Buhners website, check the link about Apis:
posted
The first day, I used it once. Then the second day I went too far, used it on my other knee, my neck, my lower back, and a bicep. Felt sore at first but then I felt sore and dizzy.
I've been on abx's since Janurary, but before that I used Whey for a few months when I felt much better. Figured it was helping me Detox via Glutathione. So I got more yesterday, and the first time I used it I got extremely dizzy and clumsey.
Must of of stired it up. I'm uber toxic. To me, that means the Bee Venom is working. Might try chlorella now, I'm ready. Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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sparkle7
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Niek - if you get the bee venom from AipHealth in New Zealand they process the venom so it removes the chemical responsible for allergies. They claim is it non-allergenic.
I guess if it's an issue - it's always good to have an epi pen.
-----
This is what I'm going through today...
I feel like I have massive toxins in my intestines. I don't know if it's dead spirochetes or what. I don't know if it's from the bee venom honey or from using the infrared device.
I've been taking the bee venom honey for about 10 days or so.
Last night I decided to use a bowel cleansing supplement & clay. I mixed them in water with some juice & drank it. I also took some chlorella & zeolites.
It's very hot & humid here so I can't go outside even though I have some things to do. I feel like krap but it may be a good thing.
I stopped all herbs & venom but I'm still using the infrared device.
I also got my menstrual period a few days ago but I had alot less pain than usual. It was also about 10 days late which is unusual for me.
I was using bio-identical hormone replacement but I decided to stop it about a month ago - so, that could be the reason for the delay. I want to see if the infrared light will balance my endocrine system on it's own.
I have been having headaches for the past few days, as well. I feel like my system is rebalancing & detoxifying but I don't have any tests to prove it. It's just what it feels like.
When I'm feeling less toxic, I will resume the herbs & venom honey. For now - I guess I just have to rest & drink lots of water.
I'm taking alot less pain meds! I took some Excederin for my headaches but I've really been able to cut back on prescription pain meds.
Over & out.
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bejoy
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I do think bee venom is so powerful for killing spirochetes and opening cysts, and I think the herx toxic overlod can be pretty aggressive as well.
Again, we are experimenting with this substance, from whatever supplier, and with our own bodies.
I'm not going to try to be an authority on this or on dosages, just on my own personal experience.
In my experience, and according to muscle testing, I only needed about 1/4 inch of Venex a day. That's about the size of a small pea. I often spread that amount around to three or four parts of my body.
So my advice to new people trying bee venom - use a tiny bit and ramp up slowly.
I decided to go back on Venex daily, two days ago, after realizing that I'm suddenly a bit achey and fatigued. I muscle test positive for Venex use.
Could be lyme reappearing after an intense couple of weeks, and loss of lots of sleep. At this point I don't seem to get much of a herx or side effects. I'll keep you posted if I learn anything new.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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sparkle7
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PS - I don't mean to be gross but when I went to the bathroom, it looked like biofilms were in the toilet.
I'm just kind of amazed. I don't know if this is a normal type thing & I just never noticed.
"Stuff" has been coming out of me for the past few days, though...
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sparkle7
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Worker bees possess a venomous sting, which they use to defend themselves and the hive against predators.
The venom causes intense pain at the site of the sting, with swelling and reddening following later.
In the act of stinging, the venom sac and attached muscles are torn from the bee, causing its death.
The muscles then continue to work the sting deeper into the wound and inject further venom. To prevent this, the sting should be scraped out with a fingernail (not grasped and pulled out, as this forces all remaining venom into the wound).
Some people develop acute allergic reactions to bee stings. An allergic reaction becomes evident in less than an hour and consists of extreme difficulty in breathing, heart irregularity, shock, splotched skin, and speech difficulty.
A person showing signs of an allergic reaction should see a medical doctor immediately.
Unlike many other insect venoms, bee venom is water soluble, not fat soluble, and so must be injected into moist tissue to be effective.
It is haemorrhagic, unlike snake venom, which is a coagulant. Bee venom is a clear liquid, which forms greyish white crystals when exposed to air.
Bee venom is a mixture of histamine, pheromones (discussed on the pheromone page), enzymes, peptides, amino acids and other acids, with 63 components in total.
The main enzymes present are phospholipase A, hyaluronidase, and lecithinase; while the main peptides are mellitin, apamin and peptide 401.
Bee venom is cytotoxic (ie. cell-destroying), and has the contradictory effects of inhibiting the nervous system, while stimulating the heart and adrenal glands.
Phospholipase A makes up 12% of the venom, and destroys cells by breaking up phospholipids, the main component of cell membranes.
Lecithinase converts lecithine to lysolecithine (or phospholipase B), which breaks down the membranes of blood cells.
Hyaluronidase (3%) acts as a spreading factor, by breaking down hyaluronic acid, a polysaccharide interstitial fluid in connective tissue.
Mellitin, a 26 amino acid peptide, makes up 50% of the dry weight of bee venom, and acts to destroy blood cells by breaking up their membranes.
It also lowers blood pressure, causes histamine release, and is the main pain-causing component.
Both mellitin and apamin cause the body to release cortisol, a natural steroid, while peptide 401 is a powerful anti-inflammatory agent.
The main amino acids in bee venom are cysteine and methionine, both of which contain sulphur. Sulphur is important in inducing cortisol release from the adrenal glands.
Histamine makes up 0.9% of venom, and causes itching and pain at the site of the sting.
The acids present, which include formic, hydrochloric and orthophosphoric acids, are now believed to be much less important in causing pain than was previously thought.
Bee venom has recently found a use in a form of complementary therapy.
In bee venom therapy, bees may be induced to sting the affected area, or the venom may be applied by intramuscular injection.
The venom stimulates the release of cortisol, and so is effective in the treatment of rheumatic disorders such as Multiple Sclerosis, rheumatoid arthritis and gout.
Mellitin is believed to be the main active agent. Bee venom therapy is one aspect of apitherapy - use of bee products for curing disease.
Mellitin is also being investigated as an anti-cancer agent.
By modifying the mellitin molecule to prevent allergic reaction, and attaching a cancer-specific antibody (this combination of toxin and antibody is called an immunotoxin), researchers hope to produce a `magic bullet' treatment - so called because it would only destroy cancer cells (unlike conventional chemotherapy agents, which destroy all types of cell, causing unpleasant side effects such as vomiting and hair loss).
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sparkle7
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Bee Venom Has Anti-Arthritic Effects
05 Nov 2004
Study reveals how melittin in venom blocks inflammation - Since ancient times, healers have practiced apitherapy, the use of honeybee products for curative purposes.
Within the last few decades, conventional doctors have joined holistic practitioners in exploring the potential of bee venom for treating a wide variety of conditions from acute tendonitis to chronic back pain to rheumatoid arthritis (RA).
While research has established anti-arthritic effects of bee venom, much about the way bee venom work remains a mystery.
A team of researchers in South Korea recently conducted an investigation into the molecular mechanisms behind bee venom's therapeutic impact on RA, a chronic, destructive inflammatory disease.
The November 2004 issue of Arthritis & Rheumatism (http://www.interscience.wiley.com/journal/arthritis) presents their insights into melittin, a major component of bee venom and a powerful anti-inflammatory agent.
To gain a better understanding of bee venom's potential benefits for RA patients, the researchers examined its action in rat treated to induce inflammatory arthritis.
For rats with advanced RA, treatment with bee venom at very low doses resulted in dramatic reductions of tissue swelling and osteophyte formation on affected paws.
"Although the issue for determination of an effective dose is needed for further study," observes one of the authors, Jin Tae Hong, M.D., Ph.D.
"Our data show that the anti-arthritic effects of bee venom are related to the anti-inflammatory effects of bee venom."
In the next phase of their study, researchers examined the anti-inflammatory effects of bee venom on synovial cells - cells lining the joints- obtained from human RA patients.
Their experiments focused on melittin, bee venom's principal peptide.
They observed melittin's power to block the expression of inflammatory genes, much like COX-2 inhibitor drugs used to treat RA. Melittin effectively reduces inflammation by inhibiting the critical DNA binding activity of NF-kB (Nuclear Factor kappa B), which directly controls a number of genes involved in immune reactions.
Thus, Melittin's targeted inactivation of inflammation may hold the key to the anti-arthritic effects of bee venom.
"The potency of melittin in the inhibition of the inflammatory response may be of great benefit in degenerative and inflammatory diseases such as RA," concludes Dr. Hong.
"The extent of inhibitory effects of melittin in most parameters determined in the present study is similar to or greater than bee venom itself, suggesting that melittin may be a major causative component in the pharmacologic effects of bee venom."
Article: "Antiarthritic Effect of Bee Venom: Inhibition of Inflammation Mediator Generation by Suppression of NF-�B Through Interaction With the p50 Subunit," Hye Ji Park, Seong Ho Lee, Dong Ju Son, Ki Wan Oh, Ki Hyun Kim, Ho Seub Song, Goon Joung Kim, Goo Taeg Oh, Do Young Yoon, and Jin Tae Hong, Arthritis & Rheumatism, November 2004; 50:11; pp. 3504-3515 (DOI: 10.1002/art.20626).
posted
Bought some Chlorella today. Jarrow Chlorella 400mg pills. I know there is tons if info already here about Chlorella. Does anyone have suggestions for someone without a gall bladder?
About the Chlorella. Bought this to try to solve my ongoing afternoon dizzyness since starting Bicillin 7 weeks ago. The Bee Venom seems to make it worse, as did Cranberry Juice, and Whey.
This is clear to me that my dizzyness is related to my body being very toxic. Everything I tried stirred things up and took care of some but not all that was stirred up. Today I feel less dizzy. Lemon water all day.
Trying to build my army to deal with whatever the Lyme, Babs, and Toxins want to try to stop me with.
Bicillin LA 1.2 every oher day Zithromax 500mg Mepron Artemisinin Methyl B-12 shots 2 times a week. Probiotics (willing to experiement)
Additional Support: Probiotics (willing to experiement with many brands) Mega-Zyme (Protease, Amylase, others) Magnesium with Malic Acid Sarsaparilla Resveratrol B Vitamins Quercetin ALA NAC Metabolic Complex Trace Minerals
recently added Venx Bee Venom ointment Solaray Yeast Cleanse (Cyst buster and candida) Whey (for Glutathione) detox Chlorella (for detox and Methylcobalamin B12) Alka Seltzer Gold Manuka VENZ Propolis. Manuka Honey with Bee Venom and Propolis extract.
cheers, Will
Posts: 111 | From Mid Michigan | Registered: Feb 2008
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
I tend to be cautious about mixing alot of stuff together. Some people don't agree but we are individual & have different health issues.
When I was on abx, my doctor said that if it's too much it's OK to take a break.
If you feel like something is making you too ill. Take a break. It's not good for your body to overdo it. It can be counter-productive.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I just tried my first tiny bit of bee venom ointment. So far it is making my knee feel cooler. I am hoping I do not get a headache.
I am not crazy about the smell and if they made it with out the essential oils I might like it better not that I am against essential oils but the ones he uses do not smell good to me.
If I feel anything else I will report back later.
Is there a reason you are suppose to wash the area for 2 to 3 minutes? Washing the area makes sense to me but I do not understand we you need to wash the area for that long.
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bejoy
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Member # 11129
posted
I'm sure there is a very good reason for all the washing and heating. The owner seems to be very knowledgeable about his product. You could call him and ask, but he's out collecting venom for the month.
I have to admit, I don't do the washing and heating. I just apply the ointment and go about my business. Sometimes if something is going to take a production, I just won't do it at all.
Yes, let us know how it goes!
As for me, over the last week of using bee venom on my neck and lower back, I noticed the tightness in my jaw reduced. I hadn't realized the TMJ tension was back, until it started easing up.
Can't explain this, though, and it could be from something else. (I'm also taking biotox elim - teasel root, and getting a lot more sleep.)
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
I am not into any 2 - 3 minute washing production either though I did do it today.
Today my skin became red where applied it on my knee and it felt cooler in the area but I did not feel anything else that I could put my finger on.
Should I be expecting a headache any time soon or is that not always a result of using bee venom?
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pamoisondelune
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Member # 11846
posted
Iput the venom on my hands and the next day had what i guess is a hand herx. The joints had painful arthritis worse than ever in my life. I didn't feel like lifting a suitcase. I told my doctor that day that my hands were worse, and he said, "so it didn't work!" but i think on the contrary it was a herx.
I showed the doctor a pit next to the thumb muscle. The flesh between thumb and 1st finger was very painful if pressed. Then a day or two later, now, the hands are again painfree and young-feeling. I imagine that the pit is where some lyme or other died and left toxins.
Angelica--- Since beevenom is water soluble, i imagined keeping hands wet makes the skin easier to penetrate, for better absorption.
from pamois.
Posts: 1226 | From USA | Registered: May 2007
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
The directions have you dry the skin after 2 to 3 minutes of washing. Maybe the wetting of the skin for 2 to 3 minutes makes the ointment easier to go into the skin?
Actually my knee seemed to hurt more for a bit after I applied but you are right that is probably part of the healing process.
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bejoy
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Member # 11129
posted
Here's my update:
I got some mild neuro symptoms again last week, after multiple assaults to the immune system.
Dropping spoons, choking on drinks, stubbing my toe, fatigue, and some neck pain. The only symptom left this week is fatigue.
I have been using Venex 1/2 inch a day in the morning spread between neck and adrenal area. This is twice the amount I used when last treating.
I'm also using SpiroNil teasel root, and Lym homeopathic from DB.
No herx symptoms other than the fatigue, which I am managing with B12 shots, Enriching Greens, and caffiene.
I'm also happy to say that I discovered yesterday that I can not only touch my toes, but I can palm the ground. This is without any stretching exercises in the past year.
Prior to diagnosis and treatment, I could only touch my knees, regardless of the yoga I used to do several times a week.
I've had lyme my entire adult life. It's fun to see some things just become easy that I always assumed were difficult and just the way life is.
Any more positive (or negative) experience from the ointment? Anyone reading this who is doing live bees or injections?
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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hiker53
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 6046
posted
Mellitin is a main ingredient in bee ointment. If you google mellitin you will find it kills healthy human cells as well as germs.
So, be careful. Hiker53
-------------------- Hiker53
"God is light. In Him there is no darkness." 1John 1:5 Posts: 8878 | From Illinois | Registered: Aug 2004
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Angelica
Unregistered
posted
My knee has been hurting lately so I just applied some of the bee venom cream from Canada. It certainly does help the pain go away.
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Up in response to recent questions about bee venom.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Up for update. I used Venex last December for a mild relapse following my father's tragic death. Again in August when I got a brief lyme relapse following a bout of the flu (H1N1?) Both times it took care of all the lyme symptoms, and energy testing shows no more active lyme.
I'm currently using biophoton nosode techniques (PE-1, similar to the Bionic 880) for clearing other remaining coinfections, including a tick born viral and some molds. I find this technique to be very effective for lyme as well, although I no longer need to use it.
Lyme has not given me much trouble in two years, other than the above mild symptom recurrances following major incidents. I'm expecting that once I get the virals and molds handled, lyme won't pop up much any more either for any reason.
Of all the treatments I have used, Venex has been by far the easiest, least expensive and the most effective of all (except for photon nosode treatment, which can be rather complex.) In my experience, bee venom ointment works wonders against lyme!
beevenom.com or dancingbeeacres.com
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
Bejoy: Do you (or someone else) know whether the non-allergenic version is as potent as the unmodified?
Also, which of the recommended companies are from Canada?
Best wishes,
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
hmm bee venom indeed looks like great , clinically proven treatment (found quite a few of papers ,mostly with arthritis patients)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by non-allergic version. Venex has homepathics in it which help people not to be allergic to it. The manufacturer said that he has never known anyone to react badly to it, although you still have to be careful.
Both websites I posted sell the same product. Beevenom.com is the manufacturer.
Keep in mind that much research on bee venom is mostly on rheumatoid and on MS, both diseases possibly either lyme related or lyme itself.
Dr. K. uses bee venom injections with great success. I found that I didn't need to go that route, because I got better with the transdermal preparation.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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TerryK
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Member # 8552
posted
People with POTS are often on beta blockers. Beta blockers may make it impossible to recover from anaphylactic shock so please consider that this treatment could be very dangerous for you.
A warning comes with the shots but if you are allergic, it would also apply to the venom.
canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
Non-allergenic: Apihealth?
Is this version as effective as the others that are not, "non-allergenic"?
Best wishes,
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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bejoy
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Member # 11129
posted
I have not tried Apihealth. I have used Venex. I don't know how the ingredients may differ. Venex has been effective for me and for several friends. I don't personally know anyone who has tried Apihealth, other than on this post.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
Thanks, bejoy!
I have looked on the Apihealth site, and don't see mention of it being non-allergenic.
Perhaps mookiewill will stop by.
What concerns me about this is getting an epipen. I don't have a Canadian doctor who would support me in Venom treatment, which means I would have to purchase in the US with no insurance.
Not that you should be insurance jealous - Canadian insurance has been of minor use.
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
How long did you use the bee venom ointment before feeling that you were in remission?
Posts: 648 | From northeast | Registered: Feb 2009
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
Hey brave one, if you have not had anaphylactic reactions to bee stings before, I don't think you have to have an epipen to try this. I'd just try it the first two or three times with someone present who could get you help if you needed it, or get to you to someplace where they could administer an epipen.
The maker told me he has never had anyone have an anaphylactic reaction to the ointment, to his knowledge, but you have to be careful anyway.
Insurance isn't going to cover this ointment for any of us, but it is relatively inexpensive - about $30. a tube. I do hear your pain. Insurance covered none of my treatment.
HopingMom, it's impossible to answer accurately how long it took for bee venom to get me into remission. I had taken so many other treatments already, and had a list of at least ten other rampant coinfections.
I think it was a matter of a few weeks for me to feel like I had made some serious headway, and much of my neuro symptomatology had cleared.
I did post a log of my reactions to the ointment. If you do a search you could find another of my posts on bee venom.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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canbravelyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9785
posted
Hi Joy,
My sense is that I could become allergic to venom, sort of how after I had a SPECT with dye I became more sensitive to fish.
My sense is that venom would do tremendous good for me.
I'll purchase some this week.
Thanks for your post.
-------------------- For medical advice related to Lyme disease, please see an ILADS physician. Posts: 1494 | From Getting there... | Registered: Aug 2006
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Up for more experiences with bee venom. It sounds really great, if enough people have had good experiences with it.
Has any one had the injections? If so, what was your experience??
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
OK, i am a little nervous about trying this. Is an epipen enough in case? Where do you get one??? Are they easy to get and do they work in this case?
I have been stung before as a child and never had a reaction, other than pain, LOL.
I was thinking about trying this or Essential Oils Valor oil. I heard that does wonders for pain and symptoms as well. Anyone try this?
Finally, Does anyone know how this related to Honey? I hear people mentioning honey as well as venom. I know I have heard of some using raw honey and cinnamon but I have not heard of many who say that worked for them.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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bejoy
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11129
posted
The way bee venom ointment works is that the enzymes break down the spirochete proteins, and probably also the cyst coatings. You rub it on the skin and it gets absorbed.
I don't think many people on this board have tried this preparation for lyme yet. It is considered experimental, since there are only in-vitro studies done on bee venom for lyme, and no research with Venex being used on live people with verified lyme disease.
I have had several friends use it sucessfully. I think it is one of the most effective easiest and cheapest lyme treatments.
There is no one thing that works for everyone, but I'd like to see more people on this board try this product, because it worked so well for me and some of my friends, and because the side effects are so minimal and don't promote fungal growth.
-------------------- bejoy!
"Do not go where the path may lead; go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." -Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 1918 | From Alive and Well! | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Thank you for sharing, bejoy. I must admit I don't know anything about bee venom ointment. Any suggestions for which products to try or where to read up on it?
-------------------- Jennifer Posts: 266 | From Ocean County, NJ | Registered: Aug 2007
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Cass A
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11134
posted
I have used the bee venom for areas of achiness.
I had a neuroma in my right foot, which I considered an effect of Lyme. I put a small amount of Venex on it every night for a few days--now the achiness is gone.
It may be that the neuroma is handled. However, as it has come and gone in the past, I won't say it's GONE until I'm sure!!
Best,
Cass A
Posts: 1245 | From Thousand Oaks, CA | Registered: Feb 2007
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richedie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14689
posted
I would think as soon as you rub it on an area, say your elbow...It gets absorbed in the blood and quickly travels elsewhere. No? How do you ensure absorption at the site. I guess that is why you rub it into the base of the neck. How about under the foot, such as with essential or healing oils.
I have to at least try it. I am ordering some Venex from Dancing Bee Acres.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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