posted
I am very very concerned that all the abx are weakening my immune system. Is there any validity to this? Are others now WORSE after being on long term abx?
For the first time since being diagnosed I am very afraid.
Yesterday and last night I felt so horrible. I'm on a major downhill slide. My symptoms are much worse now than they have EVER been.
I am not sure how long I have had lyme. Maybe 10 yrs, maybe 2. I've had fatigue and minor muscle aches forever but they were always manageable and never seemed to last very long.
Beginning of 09 things got a little worse.
In June I was diagnosed and have been off/on abx for 5 months now.
I never felt this bad for this long before. It makes me think the abx, while they did help, may have caused my immune system to weaken in the absense of abx. I don't want to be an abx junkie for the rest of my life!
I know some of you have done abx for years. Maybe it is the only solution but it really scares me. I think my own immune system did better before all these abx.
-------------------- TxLymie IgG-Negative IgM - Postive bands 23 and 41
Other dx: 2000: Endometriosis 2009: Chronic EBV, Mycoplasma infection, HHV6, H.pylori Posts: 297 | From Houston | Registered: Jun 2009
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treepatrol
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 4117
posted
I think it makes it better when you have lyme it gives it a break and goes after the other infections.
-------------------- Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Remember Iam not a Doctor Just someone struggling like you with Tick Borne Diseases.
posted
In the long run.. you will benefit!! That's the sight to set your eyes on.
Having the infection run rampant is even worse.
Have you been checked for coinfections?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
I also feel bad on abx. Some people tolerate it better than others.
ABx do kill your intestinal flora, where MOST of your immune system is located.
So yes, abx do reduce immunity, that's why everyone here try to take probiotics. I guess we have to say that clearly. No one can deny that aspect of the treatment with abx.
But probiotics, no matter the amount you take, will never replenish what the abx kill, because of the variety of bacteria it kills. Probiotics contain 2 or 3 types of beneficial gut bacteria while your gut had hundreds of different bacteria before taking abx.
In my opinion, there's no way to catch up with the numbers, if you see what I mean.
People using too much abx will fight fiercely against candida sooner or later, and I can swear the fight against candida is not easier than lyme.
Even people not using abx will have problems with candida, because it seems to live well with borrelia! One thing is certain, most abx will not help your candida. Candida symptoms mimic lyme symptoms.
On the other hand, you could be experiencing herxes and not worsening of your condition.
Some people are also allergic/ sensitive to certain abx or develop the allergy / sensitivity later. You could also try to shift.
I would never ever do more than a couple of months of antibiotics, but that's me. Some people here are years on abx and are still fine. I wonder if my stomach would ever survive even 6 months of that.
There are many alternatives. In my opinion, far better than the abx-only approach. Mainly because there are alternatives that preserve your gut flora. But I guess, it also depends on each case.
I also took abx, but only very short term. When I could, I stopped and substituted them for herbs, homeopathics, microcurrent. More recently, with photons.
This is just my opinion. There are LOADS of alternative treatments that also work.
My daughter and I are on month 7 in full remission, meaning, no lyme treatment whatsoever for 7 months. Not even herbs. We both used minimal amounts of abx and fought chronic infection and multiple re-reinfections.
My advice would be: Follow your gut, in all senses!!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
No, it is a myth, one of several about antibiotics.
if you take your probiotics regularly you can replenish intestinal flora.
There is some evidence that long term use of zithromax temporarily suppresses parts of the immune system. However this is reversed when you stop taking it.
Lyme is a serious systemic disease that can cause major illness, as well know -- much better to have effective treatment for it than to allow unfounded fears to prevent even trying treatment.
Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
My understanding is not that abx stops your body's affectiveness in fighting bacteria but rather that the over-use of abx (among the population in general) are making bacteria resistent to abx).
I could be wrong, but that has been my understanding.
Posts: 212 | From Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I appreciate all the responses. Sadly, again, there seems to be totally opposite viewpoints on this(as with most thing concerning lyme)
I have taken probiotics from day 1 and continue to do that even off of abx. But there is no denying I was developig Candida so I got off the abx. I refuse to trade lyme for candida based on the horrible stories I've heard here.
I wonder if, like Brussels said, going on and off abx might be the best? That at least gives my body a break from the bad side affects and hopefully keeps me from getting full blown candida.
I know in Cure Unknown Dr B and the author both pulsed Ceftin. By that I mean they went on ceftin for a few months, got off until their lyme came back full blown, then started ceftin again. They did this 3 times and were healed.
If I start back up on Ceftin it will be my 2nd round.I'm feeling pretty bad lately so I need to do something.
Brussels, I will PM you because I am very interested (and encouraged) to know you got better even being off of abx.
-------------------- TxLymie IgG-Negative IgM - Postive bands 23 and 41
Other dx: 2000: Endometriosis 2009: Chronic EBV, Mycoplasma infection, HHV6, H.pylori Posts: 297 | From Houston | Registered: Jun 2009
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
it's also a good idea to lower the sugars and carbs in your diet- I went on a very strict low-carb diet for a while, the anti-candida diet from the wholeapproach.com forums, or from books like The Candida Connection.
Some people can't just prevent candida by taking probiotics (though you should take them for other reasons besides candida fighting)- you DEFINITELY should lower the sugars in the diet (excess sugar is bad for you when you're ill, for other reasons, anyway) and you might want to also eat more foods with probiotic bacteria in them, such as yogurt, unpasteurized sauerkraut, etc. There are some links in my signature about how to make some of these foods. The reason these may be better (besides the fact that they're delicious) is that they'll probably have a broader population of beneficial bacteria strains in them than a capsule might, and if you've made them fresh, you know they have live bacteria, whereas the bacteria in a probiotic capsule might not have survived the long storage time.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
quote: ABx do kill your intestinal flora, where MOST of your immune system is located.
Gets your fact straight first ,mkaay? -immune system is not located in "intestinal flora"
quote: So yes, abx do reduce immunity, that's why everyone here try to take probiotics. I guess we have to say that clearly. No one can deny that aspect of the treatment with abx.
Speculation is that the bacteria in gut stimulates immune system - because its foreign bacteria and activates the immune system just like any other pathogen does. So it keeps immune system always alert. From that point of view - yes abx do deregulate immune system
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Amanda
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14107
posted
Dr. Wilson provides no scientific studies to back up his claim that abx supress the immune system, OUTSIDE OF YOUR GUT.
Of course its true that much of your immune system reside in your gut, but this is not the same as the immune cells that reside in your blood system.
It IS known that certain IV abx can temporarily cause your WBC counts to lower.
The easiest way to find out if you immune system is suppressed is to go to the MD and ask them to run a complete White Blood Cell count.
Also, FYI Dr. B didn't cure himself by only pulsing oral Ceftin, he also took IV and several other abx.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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Vermont_Lymie
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9780
posted
Candida can be a problem. I have been able to take effective treatment for lyme - antibiotics - by adhering to the yeast-free diet, taking nystatin, garlic with dinner, and the occasional diflucan as needed.
I think coconut oil also helps with controlling yeast, and I take oregano capsules in an herbal anti-yeast formula when I've cheated with ice cream & pasta Posts: 2557 | From home | Registered: Aug 2006
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MariaA
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 9128
posted
I think the often-repeated phrase '90% (or whatever percentage is claimed) of your immune system is in your gut' is a myth. It's just been repeated a lot with no justification because it sounds good.
-------------------- Symptom Free!!! Thank you all!!!!
quote: Antibiotics act by inhibiting certain enzymatic processes of bacteria, and by changing mineral balances. Normal cells, however, are also affected.
In some cases -yes normal cells are also affected. But generally abx act on pathways we don't use (beta lactams,tetracyclines and macrolides), or have alternatives for (folate inhibitors for example)
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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