posted
My son (in his 20's) is extremely ill. Took low dose of Diflucan for suspected fungal infection for only one week.
Was initially thrilled with result- much of his coughing and pain (in legs, feet, gut, joints, head) lessened.
Then he became very weak and legs started to feel heavy. Switched to oregano tabs- but heaviness and weakness continued. A few days later he was unable to stand at all- not from fatigue, but muscles in legs were not working.
He said it felt like nerves not getting signals to muscles.
Started getting severe burning feelings and electrical tingling, different than his lyme symptoms - could hardly eat or move for 3 days.
Tried many detox products to remove aldehydes,etc. from fungal die-off, but everything made him too sick.(Pantethine, molybdenum, pekana,heel)
It is now over a month and still can hardly stand even w/ a walker.
I read somewhere that fungus can grow to protect body from toxic metals, which can be released in fungal die-off. Could this account for the severity of his reaction, or could just the die off from a systemic fungal infection do this?
We are stuck and very scared. The fungal infection is raging back and making him miserable, and we don't know what he can take that won't make his condition even worse.
Also don't know what to do if metals are involved- in the past he hasn't been able to tolerate zeolite, cilantro, chlorella or much of anything.
So sorry if this is written in a way that is confusing. I am quite an exhausted caretaker, not thinking straight anymore, and panicking that the complexity of this disease is defeating us.
Thank you so much for any insights or advice.
Posts: 9 | From CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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NanaDubo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Fungus does grow to protect us from metals.
Have you looked at the Allergie-Immune thread?
Lot's of info there about the body not recognizing some things as toxic and not knowing how to excrete them.
I was never able to tolerate any type of metal chelator/binder. I learned through testing with Allergie-Immun that my body did not recognize most toxic metals and so any attempt to remove them just recirculated them.
Worth reading.
Posts: 1129 | From Maine | Registered: Feb 2008
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tick battler
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posted
Did the nerve symptoms start after he had stopped the diflucan? Have you tried putting him back on it? It may be possible that it stirred up his lyme/coinfections since it diflucan hits lyme as well as yeast.
Has he been tested or treated for babesia or other coinfections? Is he seeing an LLMD? You can get a heavy metals test done, but this sounds like it could be Lyme symtoms.
It is possible that these are more Lyme/coinfection symptoms that he never had before.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
It looks to me like SEVERE intoxication, either with fungi die off, or with diflucan chemicals, or with floating heavy metals.
I also got paralized once after taking too much andrographis coupled with Artemsinin. Excessive herxing, in my view. My legs started to feel tired, heavy, until total imobilization. It lasted only about 6 hours though.
Never ever start a heavy metal desintoxication with zeolites, cilantro and any other mobilizer. Only binders are allowed, in dr. K's view, for the first months.
These toxins from fungi and heavy metals themselves are very neurotoxic. If you add mobilizers, bad idea. Or killers.
I would do a thorough cleansing with colonics, great amounts of chlorella if he tolerates it, there's the talk about microsilica (excellent binder), clay, activated charcoal, take a look at castor oil packs, liver flushes... before continuing ingesting FUNGAL KILLERS like oregano or anything else. The killing will only increase herxes.
Check magnesium.
His liver, kidneys and lymph must be well functioning, as well as his GI tract. I would add good enzymes too.
I'm not a doctor, but after all these years fighting infections, I find fungal herxes worse than borrelia herxes. The only worse herxes I got were from babesia. Fungi came number 2. Once I experienced the babesia herx that paralized me, I never got paralized again. I learned the lesson and concentrated 80% on cleaning, NOT on killing.
I changed my way of viewing treatment to less killing, more cleansing, reaching something like 80-90% of substance intake for mostly cleansing and balancing, and only a minor part of what I took was to kill. Whenever I felt too bad, I backed off, and searched for more cleansers.
Crossing fingers your son will walk again soon!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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lymie tony z
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posted
You mention he took diflucan for one week.
Most of that stuff is good for between three days and a week with each individual dose.
Kindly read the information that comes with all medications from your pharmacists.
This also could be a severe case of "TICK FEVER" which I had as a child and can cause parallysis. The nerve pains are the myelin(spl)sheaths on the nerves themselves being disolved or eaten or whatever which is usually diagnosed as MS or ALS....
Have you asked you llmd?
If not, I would seek his opinion. Personally I've had bouts of these pains and heaviness from the lyme spirochete itself many times. Especially in my six month cycles....I'm expecting any day now....
zman
-------------------- I am not a doctor...opinions expressed are from personal experiences only and should never be viewed as coming from a healthcare provider. zman Posts: 2527 | From safety harbor florida(origin Cleve., Ohio | Registered: Jan 2004
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Nana, yes I agree w/ you about AI. I actually paid for it months ago, but haven't followed through yet- we are in a very bad position.It seems that AI needs to be the primary treatment for a long while- and his infections are so severe it doesn't seem possible to wait(babesia panic off the charts,too sick from viruses, worst of all is fungus- everywhere including lungs,affecting breathing)
Will AI work if using herbal killers?
Brussels- very helpful hearing that you had temporary paralysis from treatment - we were shocked by this fungal die off and he is scared that it is permanent damage. Very wise advice- will look into microsilica- even most binders have been too harsh for gut- Any gentle cleansers you recommend to get toxins out of nerves and muscles?
tick battler and Tony- we have worked w/ LLMD's mostly by phone as he can't leave house - it hasn't been ideal Yes, we also wondered if symptoms were lyme which we know he has - but symptoms responded not only to Diflucan but specifically to herbal antifungals, so he feels pretty sure it is fungal. So sorry pain cycle is starting, Tony
Does anyone know of something gentle to kill fungus (candex or candidase?), or other good binders for fungal toxins and metals? He hasn't been able to tolerate chlorella, cholestyramine or charcoal, and pectasol chelation complex didn't help.
This infection is taking him down, and we are desperate to address it w/out hurting him more.
Many thanks for your help.
Posts: 9 | From CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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MDW005
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22706
posted
I just took Candex last night for the first time.
I am so miserable today with my head burning and
muscle soreness. It says on the bottle WORKS GENTLY
causing NO "DIE OFF" reaction, FOOEY!
-------------------- God's promises mean you always have something wonderful to look forward to. Posts: 2150 | From Georgia | Registered: Oct 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Brussels - zeolites do not bind ?
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I am so sorry that you are watching your son go thru this...I have a son close in age to yours and this would break my heart.
I know it seems overwhelming to consider getting your son out of the house to see the llmd but you have to find a way...his symptoms sound incredibly serious to me and need immediate attention.
If you cannot get him to the doctor's (any doctor, asap), then please have him taken to the hospital by ambulance.
Yes, there are a lot of very helpful people here on lymenet, but this is so serious it should only be addressed by one of his doctors. Please don't try to treat him with advice from people here, no matter how well-intentioned.
I wish you and your son the best. Take care.
Posts: 345 | From East Coast | Registered: Apr 2008
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Zeolites will also move metals intracelular and in the brain, bad idea to take in the initial phases of detox. Many posters here in the past with severe reaction to zeolite.
Dr. K. does NOT recommend it in the beginning of metal detox, only in the end. That's what I did, and it did move stuff in a strong way, for me.
It took me some time to get used to chlorella too. My husband will have strong diarrhea still when it binds nasty things in excess.
After a while, he gets used again to it.
If not chlorella, try activated charcoal. But it will wash out some important minerals while chlorella won't. This is gentle, I think. And will only clean the GI tract, while chlorella does a more thorough job.
I have a post on Sanum products and candida. I fought candida for about 2 DECADES. The only things that made it better were: Sanum products called Albicansan and Sanukehl Candida in combination, Pefrakehl, Exmykehl suppositories, and photons. I swear by photons too. Watch out for die off too.
I think that coupled with metal detox it works long term. This year, 2009, is my FIRST YEAR in since about 1992 that I didn't have candida attacks in winter. My candida got so bad that I was suffering from it 9 months a year, no SINGLE day of rest.
Until 2008. I started on Sanum in September 2008, then in January added photons (see my thread PE1 and the Bionic therapy). What worked for borrelia, seemed to have worked for fungi. So far, still crossing my fingers I won't have candida again this winter.
Candida is AS persistent as lyme, if not MORE persistent. The only thing that can kill it effectively, in my opinion, is your immune system.
That is why I think Sanum works, as it's homeopathic. They also use haptens to produce Sanukehls, and then I do think that the combination of remedies (nosodes + hapten treatment) is the best for longer term remission from candida. At least for me. It is also somehow gentle.
I still treat it sometimes (like once every 3-4 months), candida can come in two occasions for me: when I eat excess of sugar for days due to some social activities; when I am eliminating heavy metals in excess with the metal detox that I'm doing (KPU protocol).
Candida herxes are worse than borrelia, in my opinion, so watch out and find cleansers as soon as possible.
Another one you could try is MSM. It was marvelous to me but it's sulphur (some people cannot tolerate, need probably the AI before). The effect was fast and very effective, almost life savior in many situations for me.
Good luck!
I would also take him to ER just to be sure, but I doubt they will be of any help, as usual...
Unfortunately, these docs know NOTHING about detox, binders, heavy metals... but of course, they could catch some OTHER problem in the ER.
Is he having trouble to breathe?
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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Until your son is fully examined by a doctor you won't know what is really going on with him...his current condition could have absolutely nothing to do with metals or candida or detoxing.
I hope you are able to get him help immediately...to get to the point where he can no longer stand sounds like an emergency situation to me.
Posts: 345 | From East Coast | Registered: Apr 2008
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posted
SoSublyme -I appreciate your valid concerns,thank you - during the worst of this episode my son was taken by ambulance to the ER, where they could not find anything wrong in routine blood work or tests. They had no explanation for his loss of ability to stand - I tried to give a little bit of input about the possibility of toxicity and die off- and it was not appreciated by the doctors.
We have a neurologist appointment scheduled, but I am hoping by then we won't have to go.
Brussels- great information - thank you so much I will look into Sanum, MSM, and photon treatment, as he can't tolerate any meds.
I wish I had known what you just shared about zeolite. We were assured that zeolite hp was safe,that it was a binder not just mobilizer.
My son has tried to take it a number of times- in the first hour he feels great w/ mind much clearer, more strength, sense of smell and taste much better. Then he is deathly sick for many days. We were never positive this was the zeolite as he has so many symptoms in general, but it seems obvious now that it was.
Posts: 9 | From CA | Registered: Feb 2009
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Brussels
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13480
posted
Sorry to hear your story about zeolite. There were some posters in the past with many other people getting very bad reactions with it. It's a good mobilizer-cleanser as it does goes to the brain, I felt too.
It might be harmless for normal people, but not for toxic people suffering from chronic infections. Every one of us are toxic and that may be THE reason why we don't get better. The milieu theory. What causes disease was the bad milieu (our bodies) NOT the pathogens.
The logic with metal detox according to dr. K. goes like the following:
1- first clear the organs (GI tract, liver, etc) with chlorella or colonics, or possibly now with microsilica (a new product he's using). That lasts a couple of months (for me it lasted about 4 months).
2- Only then, when both organs and the matrix are clean, go on with other mobilizers like cilantro, zeolites, alpha lipoic acid, phospholipids, NDF, DMPS etc...
Another common mistake is to use alpha lipoic acid anytime before clearning the matrix and organs. Many other posters about that here too. alpha lipoic is also seen as not-dangerous to normal people. Again, not the case for most lyme sufferers.
Dozens of other posters on DMPS, DMSA, also severe reactions.
Alpha lipoic acid can mobilize into the brain again. I also used it later in the heavy metal cleansing.
This second phase takes ages!! It is very difficult to find good mobilizers. I guess MSM is quite safe for those who can tolerate sulphur.
Possibly, after a couple of weeks/ months on MSM, try again chlorella later, who knows his body can accept chlorella (as chlorella is antiviral, and food more than a metal detox supplement, that's why I like it)...
Anotehr mild alternative, as I said, is activated charcoal. Easy to take, and I believe it's mild for most of us (but I can be wrong, of course, who knows how your son will react?).
NOw Dr. K. is betting on the faster KPU protocol for metal detox. But no way to do that ALONE if you are not well versed in the products that your son can tolerate to lessen herxes. It is a very dangerous business, this one of metal detox.
Maybe it could be lyme, of course, or other infections, or neurological problem and not heavy metal. But there's a big chance that toxins are playing a big role. According to dr. K. it is the TOXINS, not the critters, that make us sick.
I also believed on the other things people believe. That the body can detox by itself. That a herx will go by itself. That sickness is caused by pathogens only. Only with the years, I came to believe that dr. K. says is true.
I was also naturally sent by ambulance to the ER during my total body paralisis and they found nothing either. But I had to go, I had no other option at that time (no knowledge of toxins either). They said nothing about toxins, nothing about infection, and found nothing wrong with me either.
I guess that now, what you could do is find some help on this metal detox business. If you would like fast solutions, find someone that is using the KPU but that has years of experience on how to detox heavy metals.
Dr. K. is betting on that approach now, but it is still a new protocol and it is ROUGH too. Knowing what a single heavy metal can do to the body (mercury), and knowing that we all have almost certainly more than this one bad metal but others like lead, aluminium, ... it is not good idea to play with things that mobilize.
that's my opinion, of course, I'm not a doc.
If he suffers from candida, there will be heavy metals involved, almost for sure. Even dr. B. started doing heavy metal detox to his patients, but in the beginning, didn't speak a word about it in his protocol.
If you are interested in a story about what mercury really did to a person, read the site: http://www.mercurylife.com/
It's very detailed and obvious that this single heavy metal can do the most awful things in one's body... It's informative and in the end, a positive story as the person recovered.
Good luck! Crossing fingers still for your son to recover. Try to find some knowledgeable help!
Posts: 6199 | From Brussels | Registered: Oct 2007
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I hope your son starts to improve soon. Best of luck. (And try to take care of yourself too!)
Posts: 345 | From East Coast | Registered: Apr 2008
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