Topic: Does anyone have stabbing joint pain when moving???
richedie
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posted
Does anyone have a stabbing pain in a joint that feels like a strained muscle or tendon, ligament issue?
I started over a year ago with wrist pain and swelling that felt like carpal tunnel, then the deep pain the forearm began which came along with elbow pain and swelling.
Initially I saw a hand specialist and after testing said it was most likely carpal tunnel or an over-use injury so he put me in a splint for a while. I did not get better.
If I do that carpal tunnel test of bending the wrists inward, it is horribly painful. Then, when my hand turned blue, he said he could no longer help me!!!
Then the pain spread into my upper arm and shoudler area along with clicking int the shoulder joint.
The shoulder pain continued to progress to where it is now, stabbing pain if I try to reach behind my back or press/lift something overhead. Feels like a muscle is tearing!
So, how does one have a horrible shoulder problem, inflamation, clicking in the elbow and pain in the elbhow, pain in the forearm and carpal tunnel symptoms all at once? This, after never once having any problems with this arm.
It has to be this horible infection(s). So, I am I alone with the stabbing pains when you move a certain way? This can almost trick us into thinking this is a physical problem.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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disturbedme
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posted
I have the stabbing joint pains any time.... sometimes I can just be sitting or laying down when they occur.... sometimes they do happen when I'm walking or moving.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
My Lyme Story Posts: 2965 | From Land of Confusion (bitten in KS, moved to PA, now living in MD) | Registered: Jun 2007
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randibear
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posted
mine happens when i've been sitting too long in one position. i try to get up and can barely move.
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richedie
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posted
So nobody has what feels like a pulled/torn or strained muscle, etc? It is so weird.....it almost feels like a sprts injury although I did nothing! I never get the pain if I don't do those specific movements.
The forearm, elbow and wrist however always hurt.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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sutherngrl
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I had what they called frozen shoulders and went to physcial therapy before I knew it was actually LD. My shoulders all the way down to my hands hurt so severly, I could barely function; but with treamtment it has improved.
However, I do get shooting or stabbing pains in my wrist and elbows and such. Does sometimes feel like carpal tunnel. My LLMD says its like tendonitis.
I can get these pains even when I am just sitting still, very sudden and severe. And yes sometimes it does feel more like a sports injury. All of this is part of this bizarre illness.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Massage, massage, massage, from a professional massage therapist.
Ask them what stretches and self-care you can do at home to help reduce pain and improve function.
Tight and imbalanced muscles can cause a lot of pain, impinge nerves, put strain on tendons and make life miserable.
I would not function without the sessions with my wonderful massage therapist every two weeks and all he has taught me to do for myself between visits.
Take care! Nutmeg
Posts: 386 | From WA state | Registered: May 2005
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richedie
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posted
Nutmeg, massage sounds great and I went to some great therapists in my area....but I continued to get worse! How can massage help that much when the underlying cause is an infection!?
I also can't afford it any longer. Mepron costs me too much as it is.
I can't see how this could be tied to muscle imbalance or lack of stretching, etc. I have taken great care to ensure muscle balance through the years and have stretched for three sessions, three days a week in between workouts.
It doesn't make sense. Now, if you tell me it is related to Lyme and co-infecftions, that I believe.
Sutherngrl, are you getting better overall? How about the wrists? My wrists and elbows hurt but do not stop me from doing things. I push through the pain. My shoulder does however stop me from doing things, too sharp and stabbing....horrible.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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Pinelady
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posted
Sharp ripping my arm off pain with sudden movement.
Since I have started taking Vitamin E 600 a day, it is getting better.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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richedie
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posted
Did the arm feel tender in spots....like the muscles were sore? My forearms and left shoulder are very sore to the touch. It is painful to sleep on my left side.
Vitamin E? Why? Unfortunately I have to avoid CoQ-10, Alpha Lypoic Acid and Vit E while I am on Mepron since they are fat soluble and can interfere with mepron absorption.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
Sorry the massage didn't work for you. It's so hard to balance expenses sometimes.
Wishing you the best, Nutmeg
Posts: 386 | From WA state | Registered: May 2005
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Pinelady
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posted
I am just guessing why the E works, but I would say
the infected bone/ligaments have lost all their
lubricant in treatment. Maybe since the borrelia
biofilm is composed of a large amount of Calcium
it has pulled it out of those bones. Got real
dry? All I know for sure is it is helping. I know
it is some of the most horrible pain I have ever
experianced. I thought it felt like I had cysts
or big pimples poping around the bone. Sound like
what you have had? Just guessing here.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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richedie
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Member # 14689
posted
Hard to explain, the pain in my shoulder feels like pulled muscles, tendons, elbow is just a dull ache along with aches in the wrists. Sometimes I will get sudden wrist stabs as well as aching forearms.
Hips feel like there is bone on bone or no synovial fluid remaining!
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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sutherngrl
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Rich, I think I'm getting better; but then some days I wonder. The change is just so gradual that it is sometimes hard to know. But I know I am better than I was a year ago; and it seems like I have improved slightly the last 4 months.
I still have really bad days, but I have a few good days. I use to only have really bad days. Does that make any sense at all?
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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richedie
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Yes, it does! I hope I can have a day when i have little to know pain in my arms. Right now, I want to cut off my left arm the pain is through the roof.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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richedie
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posted
Well, now I pretty much need my wife to help me get dressed. My arms are getting worse. Can't reach behind my back, over my head, push anything, barely lift my daughter.
I guess the answer is this. These infection can infect muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc in and around joints causing all sorts of immune system trouble in that area.....hence the pain.
This in turn can simulate what one would experience if they had a strained muscle or sprained ligament, torn muscle, etc. Sound right?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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I had the same muscle, joint, and tendon pain. It started in my feet and calves and then moved to my hands, wrists, forearms, and shoulders. I could not move my arms without pain shooting out of my elbows and shoulders.
Abx and trigger point massage has helped me tremendously, but you need to get the Trigger Point Therapy Workbook and find a massage therapist who knows what they are doing. I went to 3 of them who poked around but were not able to help. I finally found one who knew what she was doing, and the difference was amazing.
I used to play 36 holes of golf a week (pre-LD) but got to the point that I could not play 5 holes without my hands and forearms cramping up on me. After 1 year of abx and trigger point self-massage, I am now back to being able to play 18 holes.
BTW, clicking in the shoulder is usually a sign of trigger points in the supraspinatus muscle. And carpal tunnel symptoms are usually a result of problems with the muscles in the forearm.
I'll bet if you check your forearm muscles, you will find they are tight and have numerous spots of tenderness. Be sure to check your biceps and triceps also. Good luck!
richedie
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posted
Jason, everything you said applies to me. But, why wouldn't this all go away on its own with the correct abx??? I figure get the underlying cause and it takes care of itself.
How did you find the right specialist? I have some good myofascial release specialists in my area who trained under the guy who is said to be the best in that field.
I have tenderness all over my forearms, elbow and shoulder click a lot. Do you think I could cause damage by working out or doing anything physical that hurts in these areas....such as playing guitar, working out, lifting something?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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richedie
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posted
Jason, did you see my response? Thanks man!
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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posted
bilateral clicking, pain like tendons are tearing in right shoulder which inhibits muscle usage. results in tightening shoulder in protection which results in less range of motion and more dependence on others to dress, transfer, less sleep without searing pain.
I get range of motion 3 times a week and PT every 2 weeks. Still getting worse.
I have shattered large and small bones in my body, but the pain and resulting desperation is nothing like this.
point release sounds right for me and I am beginning babesia protocol.
hope we all find relief. thanks for this post.
Posts: 830 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2005
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richedie
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How do you know bilateral clicking, pain like tendons are tearing in right shoulder??? What do you mean, pain like tendons?
I tried resting the shoulder for a week or so and it didn't help so I went back to aggressive stretching and exercise, medium weights.
I also ordered the trigger point book.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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richedie
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posted
Hey everyone, I got this from Jason. He is cool with me posting:
In my non-medical (but well-read) opinion, I think that if you have had LD for a while (at least 8 years in my case) the toxins being pumped into your body by the bacteria cause systemic inflamation. If the muscles are chronically inflamed, you can develop knots of scar tissue in the damaged muscles, i.e., trigger points (TPs), or adhesions between the adjoining muscles or between the muscle and the fascia.
Although the abx may help reduce or eliminate the bacteria, they do not do anything to heal the muscles. The muscles may stop actively hurting but are easily aggravated by certain activities because the scar tissue/adhesions/trigger points are still there acting like a splinter.
You have to "remove the splinter" so the muscles can heal. You have to try to break up the trigger points and adhesions so they are no longer irritating the muscles and so blood can get to the damaged area and the body can go to work healing itself.
The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook explains this in more detail. As far as finding the right specialist, I emailed the author's daughter, Amber Davies, who helped him with the book. She gave me the name of someone who had trained with them.
I understand your arm and shoulder pain since I had the same thing. I think exercise is good for you but keep it light for now and try to stay away from anything too repetitive.
Pain in the forearms and elbows can come from lots of different muscles so I would get the TP Workbook and follow the instructions. The book can be a little intimidating at first, but it is actually very easy to use.
HOWEVER, don't jump right in and go directly to the section that deals with your problem. Take the time to read the foreword, the introduction, and the first 3 chapters. It won't take that long, but it will give you a good idea of what you are trying to do.
I also had clicking in the front of my right shoulder. I'm pretty sure that it was being caused by trigger points in my supraspinatus muscle because once I worked the knots out of the supraspinatus, the clicking went away.
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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tick battler
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posted
Sorry you are dealing with this. I didn't have anything like what you are dealing with but did have terrible carpel tunnel after both of my pregnancies for about 5 months. I used acupunture to deal with the pain and it seemed to help it heal. Might be another option in addition to the massage.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Wow! great info. thanks. Richedie - i meant pain AS IF tendons are tearing in right shoulder...
i failed to mention that "tight and imbalanced muscles" play a huge part in this as well for me. thanks Nutmeg! my right side is more effected by lyme for whatever reason, and has caused much structural strain. interestingly enough, i have had some fractures from falling and they have all been on my right side as well.
ironic, too that i type with left hand only when tired and don't capitalize.
i decided to go get point work and acupuncture tomorrow, before reading this post. i m so over having this level of pain that is so chronic. you all have given me much info and therefore hope for treating this. THANK YOU!! Aliyah
Posts: 830 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2005
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I dunno how long and how of much of levaquin you took, but its the number one drug for causing tendons/ligaments issue. I would be extremely careful
Posts: 856 | From MA | Registered: Jul 2009
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richedie
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posted
coltman,
Keep in mind the wrist, elbow and shoulder pain was there before taking Levaquin. The pain was constantly getting worse through treatment regardless of what I took. My doc now believes this is because we never got the Babesia under control. We are back with Mepron.
I lifted weights while on Levaquin.
SO, just per chance it could have been Levaquin making it worse....what is the next step in healing? I think I was on it about 2 months before switching up.
Wil an MRI show this sort of tendon issue?
-------------------- Mepron/Zith/Ceftin Doxy/Biaxin/Flagyl pulse. Artemisinin with Doxy/Biaxin. Period of Levaquin and Ceftin. Then Levaquin, Bactrim and Biaxin. Bactrim/Augmentin/Rifampin. Mepron/Biaxin/Artemisinin/Cat's Claw Rifampin/Bactrim/Alinia Plaquenil/Biaxin Posts: 1949 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Feb 2008
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Yeah it will show tears or lesions .So given your symptoms it seems warranted
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richedie
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posted
Maybe I'll see if my doc will order. Although remember I had MRIs of the area last year when I had minor pain in the area.....now it is much worse...but same area.
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posted
rich, i feel your pain and thank the lord i found somebody with the same symptoms. i haven't been dx yet, can't get in to a dr until 12-21 this year. but mine started in both shoulders, went to both hips, then the bi-cep tendons and now in my hamstrings (super painful) and knees. my shoulders are the worst though with very limited range of motion and excruciating pain and you are right about tendons. at first i thought it was joint, but i now know it is the tendons surrounding the joints. please keep us posted with your progress, i for one am very tired of this crap and need to know how to get rid of it.
thanks
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richedie
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Johnny, I will keep you posted. Lets keep each other posted on progress. I am sending you a PM.
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posted
i felt desperate about my shoulder pain and went to this very gentle chiropractor. She told me it is adhesive capsulitis, or frozen shoulder. in researching it, it can be 2ndary to other illnesses. like auto-immune issues, i am sure lyme.
she did some release work and it has helped. AVOID RE-INJURY. i keep re-injuring it. i will go 3 more times. there are stages: Stage One - The Freezing Stage: A slow onset of shoulder pain is experienced. As the pain progresses, the shoulder starts to lose motion. Stage Two - The Frozen Stage: The shoulder continues to be restricted in motion, but the pain becomes less. Stage Three - The Thawing Stage: During stage three, shoulder motion gradually returns.
hope this helps richeide and thanks sutherngrl.
Posts: 830 | From Colorado | Registered: Mar 2005
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richedie
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But I have shoulder range...it is just painful. Glad it helped you.
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posted
I forgot to mention this earlier, but if you are having lots of muscle and tendon pain, stay away from Splenda/sucrolose.
Before I realized I had LD, I was gaining weight for no reason even though I had been eating and exercising in exactly the same amounts for several years.
In fact, the "healthier" I ate (i.e., less sugar and more sugar substitutes), the more I gained.
After an especially bad day in which I ingested lots of products with Splenda, I finally realized that Splenda was irritating my muscles and gastro tract.
Splenda may be "made from sugar," but that does not make it safe. They have replaced 75% of the sugar molecule with chlorine, which was irritating my system, especially since my body was already being irritated by LD toxins.
About 2 days after I stopped ingesting Splenda, I started urinating 10-15 times a day! This went on for several days. I lost 15 lbs in 10 days.
I spoke with my doctor about this, and he surmised that my body was treating Splenda like a toxin and was retaining water to try to dilute the toxins, just like people who have kidney diseases. Once I cut out Splenda, my body got rid of the extra water.
Additionally, I have a friend who is a big runner. He told me that for some reason his calves were cramping up.
I found out he had started drinking Propel, which contains Splenda. I told him to cut out Propel and see what would happen. He did, and his calf cramps went away.
He couldn't believe it was being caused by Splenda, so he started drinking Propel again a few months later, and his calf pain came back. It stopped again when he cut out Splenda.
richedie
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posted
Don't understand why I still have the stabbing wrist, elbow and shoulder pain, plus forearm pain and it never gets better, it is always there! About a year or longer now!
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richedie
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posted
So I finally had the MRI on my shoulder. The doctor says it is calcium deposits in my shoulder joint and they can wash them away with an ultra sound guided injection. He said the calcium deposits can be very painful with movement. I am betting the issues is still Lyme and this is either a result of Lyme or a coincidance.
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richedie
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posted
You out there James? I got the MRI results.
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richedie
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posted
Found out it is calcium deposits......caused by Lyme?
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