Topic: Are Dr. Zhang's herbs better than other brands?
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Has anyone compared the products & found that Dr. Z's herbs are better than the other brands?
Just want to see if they are worth the extra money.
There are several levels of products out there. We have to study each one depending on what it is but I was looking for a general consensus.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
They are very good.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I don't understand what you mean when you said: " . . . We have to study each one . . ."
Study? Have to? Is this for a class?
In answer to if Hepapro is better. I say: Absolutely. Without a doubt. None can compare. Yes, the cost more but I have wasted a ton on trying to save money. The quality and quality control measures for Hepapro are top notch.
You also want to be sure that any herbs you take are grown in a good clean climate (and that has many levels), and those who tend them are well compensated. At every step of the way - from the seed to your mouth - many people have to care for these plants. You want plants that have been well cared for by people who are well cared for.
Yes, there are many good brand of herbs on the market. But none come close to the Hepapro line for what they are intended to do. The book explains so much so any study of this line isnot complete without studying the book AND the sinomed website.
That said, for the non-essential supplements on the protocol, like Cordyceps for liver support, you could use other good brands and that should be fine.
For those specifically intended to address lyme, etc., I have tried other brands and none - none - comes close. I have tried for years to cut costs, go cheaper and nothing is as good as when I've been able to be on the real-deal official protocol.
Were I to have alll the money in the world tomorrow - after moving to a QUIET home where I could walk in nature - I would choose Hepapro's protocol over all others. I would add in massage and other therapies, too, of course. But, for my money . . . for my body . . . I cannot say enough good about how this worked for the two different 3 month periods when I was on target.
It's not just that one product does the work - but the well-though-out combination, the whole formula/protocol. And, in my experience, the protocol should be followed precisely.
The non-essential support herbs have more wiggle room, though.
Now, just as a stop-gap measure, one bottle of allicin has to last me 2 months and I use another herb with that. I will learn to use my rife. So, even if you have to stretch it, it can have some benefit. We all do the best we can.
Hepapro's HerbSom, too, is like no other. Superb. Well thought out for patients with lyme.
Some find BioPure's better. I prefer Hepapro's. I say they are the top two.
=======================
You can find BioPure garlic with a Google search.
Sparkle, I know you have probably have studied all this.
For others reading this thread who may be interested in learning more, here are Zhang's links - and links from Buhner, who has fabulously detailed information on other very different herbs:
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Thanks Keebler & MB.
When I said you have to study each one - I meant that each herb is different & that - for example - Artemesia annua from China is better than Artemesia annua from the US...
So, each herb has very particular things that can make a difference. Some herbs are irradiated or not grown organically. You have to research each brand as to where they get the herbs from & how they are processed, potency, which part of the plant is used, dosage, etc.
Dr. Z's Artemesia annua is double or more the price of Allergy Research Group. ARG is not a bad brand as far as I know. I just wanted to see if Dr. Z's herbs were superior.
Seems like they are, so far. It does make a big difference with herbs! I agree, it is worth the money to buy better quality. Some things you can get away with but there can be a huge difference between inferior herbs & the real ones.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- True, ARG is a reputable brand. With at least four different attempts, for some reason, I could not tolerate ARP's art. but did far better on Hepapro. Part of that may have been the actual art - or that I was on the full Hepapro protocol when taking the Hepapro art.
Others do fine with ARG' art. Most need specific liver support as that does push the Cytochrome P-450 liver detox pathway and excess porphyrins can be a result for those with tendencies toward any of the porphryia's (KPU/HPU, etc.).
Back to the tedious task of comparing products,
It's also not easy comparing the dosage if the species - or the form (i.e. extract) is a bit different. Sometimes, it's a matter of where the plants are grown (not just the country), the soil, the time of year of the harvest, how the plant is nourished, etc.
If you compare the amount of the actual herb, comparing extract translated to raw herb, sometimes the costs are not all that different.
I've spent hours trying to figure out some of the comparisons of products - each - detailed in different measure. Oy!
Also to note: grown without pesticides is also not the same as organic certification. A herb can be very clean but not have organic certification as that certification is done only by a few countries. But the plant can still be grown in an organic manner.
And even organic certification allows for some kinds of treatments that even those without an organic certification may not be exposed to.
You also have to consider if bundled, raw herbs are sprayed at the docks before they live one country's borders or enter another.
So much to consider. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Yes, I know...
How about this company? 1stchineseherbs
They are much cheaper than Zhang. NYC is very expensive - I'm sure he needs to make alot of money to practice there... (I'm not trying to be flip - he seems to have a very good approach.)
1stchineseherbs were significantly cheaper.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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They are very similar in their offering. Plum Blossom is a reputable brand carried by both. And you can find various forms, raw, granules, powder and extract. Extract is always the strongest.
If you buy these, be sure to get a few "gram spoons" sent to you for exact measure. A gram spoon is smaller than 1/4 tsp. but essential to figure out a daily dose.
If you intend to mix a formula, a dark glass jar is best to store it in. Air tight is good, if you can get one with a spring loaded top like many used for grains.
You have actually re-sparked my interest. I've just been to overwhelmed to figure out my own formulas. I'm pretty much on my own to do so with very little dough, but I know it's possible to do better than I've been doing . . . and I'd sort of forgotten about 1st Chinese and Kaylx.
I love studying all this when I have the energy and, while it is so much easier to have a protocol all laid out it is still possible to find success on any budget - somehow.
Now, if I could just hire someone to do the homework, eh?
For more clarification on the language of herbs and translations, etc. the book and website for "The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook" is fabulous.
There are also dozens of herbs to study there - other than Sarsaparilla, this is not a book about lyme but it is a marvelous book full of great detail not just about herbs but also about how the body works. Something I sure never learned until mine went kaput.
posted
I am about to start Zhang's protocol. I will post about how it goes in a few weeks.
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sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
Thanks Keebler & opus.
After you've been through a few protocols, seems you can mix & match your own. I don't want to use abx. It just makes everything easier if you don't use abx as your basis for getting well.
They work for some but I see so many people saying they are better & then getting relapses with them. If you work with herbs, you don't get as many of the big complications.
Herbs are strong but I haven't had the candida situation with herbs. That's a big part of the battle as far as I can see. A big part of your immune system is in the gut.
I like the feeling that I can make adjustments without having to pay a doctor or get a lab test. After a certain point, you run out of money unless you have an bottomless source.
For some of us, it's a long term project...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Antibiotics may be necessary for some. Many have done very well with that route but, usually better, with a combination approach.
Some have done very well with complementary methods - &/or rotation of plans.
It's not so much one way or the other but education, expert guidance and choice for our decisions. Whatever our path, it's all like trying to nail jell-o to the wall. It takes some very special skill and patience.
I do know that if all lyme/TBD patients had proper recognition from the medical community and access to the kinds of medical care that best suited them, many would have gotten better long, long ago. But we trudge on, doing the best we can and that, too, can get us there.
nefferdun
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157
posted
I spent a small fortune on Zhang's herb's and relapsed so I have to disagree that they are the best. I bought Zhang's Herbsom and then googled the main ingredients. I found Corydalis root at 1stchineseherbs for a fraction of the price and it works just as well. Same is true of Cumanda from Cowden. I bought TOA free cat's claw in capsule form from another company. I knew exactly how many mg I was taking, it was helpful for lyme control and it was much less expensive. I took 1500mg. I also took capsule form of grapefruit seed extract and found various brands were pretty much the same.
Lyme goes through cycles and sometimes people feel a herb is working when they are just in a period of remission. For me, things seem to always start to worsen in the fall. I began herbs in the spring after massive abx, then felt ok only to begin relapsing the end of summer, about five months later. Both times i continued to take the herbs believing I was in a herx until several months later I was really sick. For lyme I took the complete protocol as directed by the book. For bartonella I took up to twenty HH capsules a day. If it doesn't work at that level, it doesn't work. It is my belief those herbs can help keep the diseases in remission longer but it is not a cure. Last year I spent about 6K on herbs.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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sparkle7
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posted
There are no easy answers here. I'm not against any drug. Whatever works. I did 9 months of abx & I started getting bad intestinal cramps. I had a couple of bouts of thrush & I didn't feel any better in regards to the Lyme symptoms.
I don't think it's a question of just doing them long enough & you will get better. For some, it works for others, it's doesn't. I just can deal with the idea of getting some other serious condition as a result of side effects of drugs.
It's always the question of - if only I do them long enough or take a higher dose... we will never know. We may get better for a while & then get worse as nefferdun describes. Yes, it's true about the early diagnosis.
I asked my doctor over 2 years ago about co-infections. He told me he didn't think I had them based on my symptoms. Now, he's telling me to treat for babesia...
He wants me to do abx but I'm herxing from 4 drops of the Nutrimedix Quina. I might as well stick with the herbs since they appear to be working.
We pay all this money for medical care & where does it get us? I've spent 10s of thousands... Many of us have. After a point, we just have to do the best we can with what's at hand. I know people who have spent more than I have & are still ill. Some do get better, though.
Finding lower cost treatments really helps. It's fine with me if I have to cap my own herbs or make my own tinctures.
I tried the Allimax & I didn't see much of an improvement. I don't know if garlic is for me, though. I've had allergic reactions to raw garlic in the past.
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