Topic: How do you differentiate asthma from air hunger????? Going crazy here!
feelfit
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I was dx'ed with asthma and started meds last month. I did not even know that I had it! I have no wheezing, no coughing, no fast breathing.
But I do have a feeling that I can't breath. I blow that peak flow thing when this is happening and I am in range. I puff albuterol and nothing.
It feels like my chest is tight, I feel like I am not getting a full breath, and I get an anxious feeling. I am not in a panic attack, been there. Klonopin= no relief.
I have to wait it out. I am so confused as to what are asthma symptoms and what is air hunger. I wanted to go to ER this a.m. because I was so uncomfortable. Two hours and it let up.
Feelfit
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btmb03
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Yuck - I wish I had some answers for you, I suffer from the same thing - bumping for input for you feelfit!
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feelfit
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thanks btm, looks like we're all alone here Posts: 3975 | From usa | Registered: Aug 2007
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I can't give you answers, but I can tell you that my air hunger - and it is air hunger- has me questioning exactly what is air hunger all the time.
It sounds to me like your situation is more severe than mine.
I know what asthma is. I am very familiar with its nuances. My son is asthmatic.
IME, when he has been having difficulty (due to asthma)the peak flow meter will not be in normal range.
BTW: I have used his albuterol. It didn't help. I do not have asthma. I cannot get enough oxygen into my lungs -that's what it feels like.
I can describe it most accurately as the feeling of trying to breathe the atmosphere of another planet.
Bottom line, though: the ER evaluation is sometimes necessary, even if there's not treatment. You are a consumer - look at it that way.
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posted
I wish it would go away for you!! Keep us posted if you find a solution.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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ukcarry
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I'm also getting really bad air hunger at the moment. For me it comes in patches, along with bad high abdomen bloating and often is bad in November, perhaps related to moulds etc.
This time it is such a 'muscular' strain to breathe that i feel very sore and strained internally too. I tried lecithin for a few days, but didn't notice any change.
I am also waiting for the results of an echocardiogram, so it is hard to tell what's babesia and what's a heart irregularity.
posted
Carry, mine sound exactly like yours and only became worse after I started treatment.
Unfortunately I've had all the tests done - esp cardiac and they found nothing. Next it's a pulmonary function test which I *know* will be normal despite the severity of my sx.
This being "muscular" makes some sense, it's like something is keeping the lungs from expanding "normally" but the oxygen is getting into our blood OK. Strange illness, isn't it?
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TerryK
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My husband has asthma and I have air hunger so when I saw your request I asked him what it was like for him to see if we could figure out the difference.
As far as we can tell, the difference is that I can inflate my lungs fully but he can't.
He breathes in but before his lungs can be fully inflated he can't get any more air in. I can fully expand my chest and inflate my lungs but feel like I can't get enough oxygen.
There may be other differences that we couldn't figure out.
My air hunger is under control most of the time with supplements that boost acetylcholine except for when I'm hitting babesia hard. Then the air hunger can be troublesome once in awhile.
It is an awful symptom. I hope goes away soon for you.
Terry
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Ocean
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Feelfit,
I have been having air hunger since last Saturday, off and on. It started last night with a tight throat around 6 pm, I tried to sleep around 12:30 and it was uncomfortable to try to sleep with it.
I also have sore legs/feet/butt today. I'm hoping the laser is killing off the lyme and now babs is coming up to the front.
I know in Feb I had air hunger really bad, and almost went to the ER, it is not that bad right now, just more uncomfortable.
I'm so sorry that you are feeling thing way. If the asthma meds don't help, it's probably air hunger, right? I wish I had more to tell you to help, but I'm right there with ya
posted
Yeah - we should all start a "breathing club"!!
Inhale slooowly, exhale slooowly!! Maybe the distress this "thing" is causing us is more apparent than the actual condition???
On a naughty note - I also find I've been snacking on Kit-Kat bars and it seems to make the breathing a bit easier. (pls no scolding, I know all about good nutrition) - any takers on why low-glycemic foods make me feel better?
Are we all fighting...maybe yeast/fungus in our lungs?
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feelfit
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btm, kit-kats make your breathing easier? WOW, if so, I am going to be 'naughty' too.......
And, and Kit-kats are low-glycemic????
TerryK thanks for the help...trying to figure it out. I take Phosphatidyl Choline. Is this what helps your air hunger?
Carry, I hope that your hert is ok. For me too, my chest muscles feel tight.
Ocean, that is what i am hoping, if I feel no different with the abuterol, it must be air hunger. It is so scary though. It wakes me up from a sleep.
I am treating babesia presently, so that *could* account for this awful symptom.
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btmb03
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Ha ha I meant "high glycemic" feelfit - and yes, somehow it does help my air hunger. I truly can't explain it...and not a particularly healthy way of dealing with it.
I'm also trying some new detox stuff and that might help too. Hang in there kiddo, glad you're on babs tx!!
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posted
Hey feelfit, I just read your original post not the replies (short on time). I was tested for asthma prior to diagnosis. They found I was actually hyperventilating with the air hunger, whereas asthma is not getting enough air.
Be sure you are breathing out completely. That is a problem with asthma (my sister has had it her whole life).
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feelfit
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Well Btm, I boo-boo'ed too. I hope that Carry checks out ok on the 'heart'.....and hope it doesn't 'hert' to breathe anymore.
Weird how the kit-kats seem to help. I have been eating some Ben and Jerry's Pumpkin Cheesecake ice cream to aid with the absorbtion of Malarone...you need a fat source and peanut butter gets boring and really makes my throat close! Ha. So I have been issued a temporary license for ice cream..
i will ahve to be more observant and see if I am able to breathe better when I eat the ice cream.....
Let me know how the detox stuff works...you hang in there too!
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feelfit
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thanks Six, yes, I am able to breathe in fine per Pulmonary function tests. Breathing out is restricted. But still, albuterol should ease sx if asthma....it was shown on my tests that it restored breathing function after it was administered..
Not helping with this. Must be air hunger.
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Starfall1969
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Just kind of scanned thru here, but I have the air hunger issue too.
My son is asthmatic as well, and I was tested for asthma, which of course came bacl negative.
I just have the feeling that there's not enough oxygen in the air I take in. Sometimes it's mild, sometimes I start panicking or feeling light-headed, but ER visits show my oxygen is fine.
I take Benadryl when I really feel crappy, I guess it calms me down.
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btmb03
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What is the test for asthma anyway??
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cactus
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Your test results and the feelings sound like what I used to have. (Did that sentence make sense??)
It worsened during babs treatment, but eventually improved.
Albuterol didn't seem to help.
But I did have something - a puffer - that I took daily. That did seem to help over time.
Gosh, I can't remember what it was called - it was a purple asthma med... If you want, I'll look it up for you.
I hope this improves for you during babs treatment.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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seekhelp
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Advair disc?
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posted
btmb03, I went to a specialist who did all kinds of tests measuring oxygen, etc. They are all breathing tests. It's hard for me to remember because it was so long ago.
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btmb03
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Thx six, I'm getting a pulmonary function test soon so maybe that might rule out some things.
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TerryK
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Just a guess as to why babesia and/or babesia treatment might cause air hunger. Babesia lives in and ruptures red blood cells. Red blood cells oxygenate our body. I think we may end up with more ruptured red blood cells when killing babesia.
Also babesia may make a toxin similar to borrelia so there may also be an effect on acetylcholine.
feelfit, I use a number of things to boost acetylcholine. When I first figured out what worked for the air hunger via muscle testing, the air hunger would go away, then I would need to muscel test and add more. For a long time I didn't realize that the things I was adding were all increasing my acetylcholine. That took awhile to figure out.
Here is what I take, spread throughout the day: Phosphatidyl choline 420 mg 2X per day citicoline 1X per day choline/inositol 500/500 2X per day huperzine a 1x per day
Via muscle testing I also needed seriphos for air hunger. I'm not sure why.
There are other things that you can take to boost acetylcholine. Copying from a previous post of mine.
http://www.townsendletter.com/FebMar2006/lyme0206.htm Dietary Supplements in Lyme Disease One of the known actions of the Lyme spirochete toxin is to diminish the release and availability of the neurotransmitter acetylcholine, a simple organic compound (see above for chemical structure).
This substance is biosynthesized by the body as required in nerve activation and transmission.
Supplementation by the precursors of acetylcholine synthesis would be of value to Lyme patients since they have a deficiency of this substance. (See Listing 1.)
Listing 1: Dietary Supplements Increasing Acetylcholine Synthesis Improving Neurologic Function
Terry I'm not a doctor
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cactus
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Big thanks, seek - it was an Advair disc.
Knew it started with an "A"... It's a brain glitch kind of day here.
So - feelfit - the Advair disc seemed to help.
It does have a small amount of steroids in it, but LLMD explained to me that the Advair would be okay.
I stopped using it after the first few months of babs treatment - didn't need it anymore.
-------------------- �Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?� - A.A. Milne Posts: 1987 | From No. VA | Registered: May 2005
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Feelfit... has your heart been checked recently? Wondering if it could be that?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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feelfit
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wow, nice info here. Thank you!
Gonna try the rest of those supps. TerryK.
Seek you honey bun, LOL. Cactus thank you for all of your support.
TuTu, you were on vacation in Texas, I believe, when I was hosp. for 4 days with similar sx. I failed my stress test, they told me and appeared to have a blockage in the area of the septum.
Long story short, I was catheterized and as my doctor says: " your heart is pristine". LOL
Feelfit, pass me a kit-kat
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quote:Originally posted by TerryK: the difference is that I can inflate my lungs fully but he can't.
He breathes in but before his lungs can be fully inflated he can't get any more air in. I can fully expand my chest and inflate my lungs but feel like I can't get enough oxygen.
Hi folk - new here and just reading up on everything I can (so much!), however I stumbled across your post and think I can add to it to help clarify what asthma feels like. I've had severe asthma since I was 6 and without giving my age away, let's just say I now have a kid graduating from college soon.
What asthma feels like: image trying to breathe continuously through a stirring straw. With asthma, the airways are swollen, you literally can not get the air into your lungs fast enough and when severe, exhaling is equally as exasperating. Typically it doesn't hurt unless you count rib and back pain from muscles pulling the lungs open & a long term issue with the rib cage becoming distorted from it. You know when you have severe asthma.
Milder asthma may simply be a few squeaks as you inhale/exhale and a cough which produces a clear gel-like mucus.
I'm not sure what "air hunger" is but a few good clues as to whether your body is getting enough oxygen or not are:
1) Blue nail beds. Take a look at a healthy person's beds and you'll see they're pink or at least white. Squeeze the nail bed down and the blue will drain away and quickly return when you release. ... just a clue, not always acurate as some folk always have cold hands and blue nails
2) Clamp down. Our bodies are amazing things and when one function is in distress others kick in to help out. When the body is struggling trying to get enough O2 to the brain, heart and other vital organs the veins in the arms and legs will literally close down as much as possible to reduce their O2 usage. Veins that would normally be very prominent become hard to find/see. Clamped down veins are also ridiculously hard for anyone but a well trained IV nurse to insert an IV needle into. Again, a caveat here: Cold will cause clamp down and with age, the body is less able to narrow down the veins (side note: which is why the elderly are often cold).
3) Confusion. Without proper O2 the brain gets very confused very fast. Don't think I need to say more.
Hope this helps.
[ 11-06-2009, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Shadow01 ]
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Rumigirl
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Well, Feelfit, I think it's obvious from everyone's answers that it's air hunger from Babesia, not asthma. And, having had both, I agree. As someone pointed out above, it's from the red blood cells not carrying oxygen as they should. It should improve with Babesia treatment.
The supplements for acetylcholine sound great!
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Hoosiers51
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What I'm having may be from babesia...this symptom showed up from Enula. (so it's babs unless it's a coincidence.)
It doesn't feel like the air doesn't have enough oxygen in it, all I really know is that I feel like I need twice as much of it. I feel the need to "catch" my breath. As in, I need to either take super deep breaths, or breathe twice as fast. And it happens the most after going up stairs.
But it started suddenly, with the Enula, so I have a hard time thinking it's deconditioning when trying to walk around.
It doesn't seem to be related to my lungs at all because I'm not conscious of my lungs, and they feel like they're filling up just fine....I just feel the need to breathe more.
So could this be air hunger? I don't get the sensation that my breaths are "unsatisfying," I just take more of them, without even thinking about it. And before I know it, I'm listening to myself, and it sounds like I'm hyperventilating, because I'm breathing twice as fast, sucking in air.
Or, I'll just make every breath a really deep one. I do that sometimes instead of breathing quickly.
Does anyone else's seem like that? Like the process of breathing feels fine, you just do more of it?
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Hoosiers51
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PS--sorry that last post is so wordy. I'm too tired to edit it, and I must be pretty inarticulate because it's me repeating myself.
Just read the last two questions, and you'll get the gist of the rambling. Posts: 4590 | From Midwest | Registered: Jun 2008
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posted
I have air hunger too, but I don't think I have babesia - don't have any of its other symptoms.
I read that nitric oxide, as a byproduct of inflammation, can interfere with the iron-carrying molecules in RBCs, and maybe in that way interfere with oxygen transport. Does anyone have any further medical info about air hunger and Lyme?
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feelfit
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Great info Shadow01. Thank you for that wonderful explanation.
Hoos, I breathe like that, but I am conscious of it....so I guess different than you.
TuTu, yup, had the echo. Everything ok except diastolic dysfunction grade 1. They tell me it is nothing. Question: Why do they report findings that mean 'nothing'?
I wonder if they would be so quick to dismiss if it was THEIR heart?
Rumigirl, must be air hunger. Robin, have read about the nitric oxide...it is called 'cellular hypoxia' and makes a heck of a lot of sense....great book about it by Dr. David S. Bell. I consider it a 'must read' short, sweet, succinct.
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posted
Feelfit, are your asthma meds helping your air hunger? Just curious.
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Keebler
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- Addressing inflammation is the key, whatever term is used.
There are many conditions of the lungs that may not technically be called asthma, but inflammation is a key factor.
A gluten-free, dairy-free, and corn-free diet is an essential part of controlling lung problems as all of those foods increase phlegm in the respiratory pathways. By eliminating phlegm-causing foods, inflammation is decreased.
It is good to avoid all scented and chemically ladened products - it's also important to avoid being anywhere near fluffy fabrics (chenille is the worst but also avoid velour and corduroy).
I think the lung problems are not just from the lungs but from the dysfunction in the various levels of our nervous systems AND with our adrenal dysfunction.
Even if the endocrine/adrenal dysfunction may not be the exact cause, having breathing problems sets of a chain reaction for our adrenal system to handle. Therefore, adrenal support is every bit at vital as the quality of the fish oil we take to minimize inflammation.
CURCUMIN should be studied for how it can help, all the way around. And I appreciate the good nature of CORDYCEPS.
-----
You might ask your LLMD if he knows of a good naturopathic doctor or acupuncturist for complementary modalities.
As well, some body movement might be of help if your LLMD knows of a good DC or DO for cranial-sacral treatment, as that can really helps breathing, too.
-
[ 01-19-2010, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
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Thanks, Keebler. You are just a wealth of information!
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Keebler
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- Hey, I had a bunch of official asthma tests at our world famous medical school clinic and they nearly pushed me out the door.
When they sprayed stuff in my lungs, I coughed the lining out of my stomach, nearly from the spasms . . . thought for sure they'd find what was going on. I was just told "you don't have asthma. You can leave now."
My lungs were still wheezing and spasms had me a close match in color to a Smurf. I was told "Just, leave." I don't know why they were so short with me and offered no other suggestions.
Later, dx with some terms I can't recall like "reactive airway disease" but not exactly.
That doctor dx that, when I asked why my lungs were at 30% capacity, said "It's all that smoking you've done."
I have NEVER Smoked. I tried two puffs of a cigarette in college and hated it. Never could even kiss a smoker. But my parents both smoked until my teens. But the doctor never asked about that. He just snarled at me like it was my own fault.
Then . . . the steroid inhalers triggered severe seizures and that was only the beginning of figuring out all this.
I do tend to think the term "air hunger" will set any doctor's eyes rolling so I never use that term.
While those lucky enough to have a good LLMD need to be clear about all with with your doctor, for many we are on our own.
Such links as above, from "One Earth" and VRP have been invaluable to me. I can't do any of the the Rx inhalers at all. However, curcurmin, fish oil and magnesium are very helpful with lungs (as with many other things, too).
Allicin will help in emergencies. I can breathe again within 5 minutes of swallowing a garlic capsule.
Last year I was dx with Cpn - and that rang some bells. A chronic pneumonia . . . I've had acute pneumonia at least a half dozen times and chronic bronchitis most of my life.
Now, why the doctors at the fancy medical school couldn't figure this out 20 years ago when I first went there is beyond me and the huge grants they get to ignore patients like me.
Garth Nicohlson's site for Mycoplasma pnuemonia should also be consulted. While the "pneumonia" part of this is not necessary just connected to the lungs . . . many do have lung trouble.
A nonprofit institute dedicated to discovering new diagnostic and therapeutic solutions for chronic mycoplasma infections.
-------
And the Allergy Immune thread everyone is discussing may also be considered.
I know I thought to mention this but don't recall doing so:
consider MOLDs - and gas heat.
If you have a gas furnace or oven, air out your house daily, upstairs windows need to be opened for a cross breeze, each day. Even in zero temps, a few minutes is required so as to reduce the buildup of the toxic gases put in with the actual natural gas.
Use exhaust fan on stove top just before turning on burner and again just before turning it off - those are the times when the gases escape and the fan helps capture them.
Do not inhale during those times.
And, now speaking of inhaling and exhaling - more good stuff:
Meditation; Qi Gong; Tai Chi; Restorative Yoga; massage, acupuncture; BioFeedback.
Many times a day: do breathing exercises - the kind for calming and resetting the nervous system. Slow, deep, full, in a nice gentle rhythm.
And the good news is that for those with lyme, babesia, bartonella . . . the lung problems often clear with all the other symptoms when treatment is successful.
It's all connected but, all the while, inflammation must be addressed. -
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Keebler
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- Has everyone changed their shower head recently?
Leah Feazel, who led the three-year study, says 30 per cent of the shower heads studied housed significant levels of a micro-organism linked to lung disease.
. . . mycobacterium avium in a significant number of shower heads. Mycobacterium avium can cause tuberculosis-like disease in people who are immune compromised.
"If you are prone to infections, so if you have an immune disease of some sort, which is HIV or AIDS or cystic fibrosis, or if you're on immune-suppressing drugs then yes, you are at risk in the shower," she continued.
"If you're a healthy person with a healthy immune system, you don't need to worry at all. You've been showering every day of your whole life and you haven't been sick."
And Ms Feazel says cleaning the shower heads does not reduce the amount of bacteria.
"We tested bleaching shower heads and we actually found that we had more of the mycobacteria after bleaching than we did before," she said. . . .
The researchers sampled shower heads in cities across the United States, including Manhattan, Memphis and Chicago. Ms Feazel says there were nine cities in seven states, and 45 shower head sites.
. . . . -
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