Topic: Another death (although not directly caused by Lyme)
IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
A very sweet lady. She had Lyme, but died due to surgery complications. She wanted to make it clear that she had chronic liver damage due to self medicating for chronic pain due to Lyme.
posted
How sad...She is now in Jesus arms!!!!
Posts: 200 | From Nevada | Registered: Dec 2008
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joalo
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12752
posted
So sad.
This is why people shouldn't self medicate.
-------------------- Sick since January 1985. Misdiagnosed for 20 years. Tested CDC positive October 2005. Treating since April 2006. Posts: 3228 | From Somewhere west of the Mississippi | Registered: Aug 2007
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posted
"she had acquired liver disease leading to her death as a result of self-medication for chronic pain, and had no idea how vulnerable the female body is to alcohol"
Very sad. I wonder if she had an LLMD?
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I wonder which meds besides the alcohol killed her liver?
So sad that in this day & age someone has to self medicate.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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MagicAcorn
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 8786
posted
Lymetoo?
Don't take this the wrong way....but if she self medicated it didn't matter that she had a LLMD.
-------------------- Posts: 1279 | From In hiding | Registered: Feb 2006
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IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
I think the point she wanted to make was it was the pain relivers (narcotics most likely) that damaged her liver so bad. She wasn't an alcoholic.. but alcohol and narcotics don't mix, for one and both stress the liver etc.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290
posted
i am sorry to hear this. some people are so desperate. sad really.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
I didn't mean to sound disrespectful? It mentioned alcohol and I can so relate to being in pain and what some others turn to for relief or comfort with pain.
I'm worried about the amount of meds and otc that I take and it's negative effect on my liver. I had the dr's office ran a liver panel on me this morning. I have added rifampin to the liver too?
I don't have any stomach issues at all. Today is just one of those overly toxic days and I know my liver can't be happy.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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posted
Am I the only one that has wondered how many people have died be it suicide or however from complications from lyme? I bet the number is higher then most think.
Even off this board I have heard so many sad stories from people that have lost it all and eventually one never hears from them. Same thing from being on cfs/fm boards which is the same disease.
If I ever win the lotto believe me a big chunk would go into lyme research and helping others out.
Posts: 805 | From Utopia | Registered: Feb 2006
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just don
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 1129
posted
Alcohol and being sedated for surgery dont mix AT ALL!!
-------------------- just don Posts: 4548 | From Middle of midwest | Registered: May 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Pam,
Liver panels can't tell everything, by far. For instance, a liver panel cannot show porphyria, a metabolic inefficiency of the liver to make necessary enzymes in order to process certain meds and alcohol.
----
First, lyme can damage the liver in many ways, some of which cannot be easily seen on any tests. Many patients' livers take a hit from late diagnoses as well as a lack of doctors who have the knowledge to treat one of the most toxic infections known.
The sooner the infection can be adequately addressed, the better off the liver. The longer the infection continues, the higher the chance for a life-long liver challenge and disease.
Also, although many LLMDs do understand the importance of liver protection and support (especially since abx are hard on the liver) and instruct their patients in good self-care - even in the best cases - that can be no guarantee that the liver will come out all bright and shiny new.
In addition to the huge liver hit from lyme, itself, this wonderful woman could very well have had one (or more) kind of porphyria. One LLMD estimates 80% of lyme patients to have KPU, just one of over 11 kinds of porphyria. Add to that, acquired porphyria as a very real possibility.
Even among those without lyme, I am certain that porphyria is sorely overlooked, underestimated and may be a huge contributor to the 195,000 deaths each year in U.S. hospitals due to error - many of those involving drug reactions. (See: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/hospital_errors.html )
My guess is that many of these hospital errors are due to undiagnosed porphryia and the resulting highly elevated porpyrins (which kill cells - and people).
Also, even OTC pain meds can damage the liver of someone who does not even have lyme. (See links in next post)
Lyme toxins clearly add to the damage, though.
It is very sad to hear of this lovely lady and the pain she endured. And my guess is that she thought most of it to be her fault when those in the field of medicine failed to find the correct source of her pain long ago and work with a safe method to treat both toxic infection and damaged liver.
There are also many other accounts of liver damage from acetaminophen and other over the counter meds. And, yes, alcohol, in ANY amount does not mix at all with a damaged liver, especially for someone more at risk of elevated porphyrins - and that is most lyme patients.
I am not faulting her at all but, rather, so sad that the educational component is so lacking regarding what we need to know about our livers. As well, there are same safe methods for relieving pain such as massage, liver support, FIR sauna, naturopathic medicine, etc. but those are not covered by insurance and the cost is prohibitive for many.
We have to do better with this whole thing. That is what she is saying, in her final message. It's just too bad that she felt such shame as she was fighting an uphill battle with too few tools against enormous pain.
Topic: NATURAL SLEEP - Links to articles & supplements
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[ 02-01-2010, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
I am sorry. I can see how easy it would be for
someone to take pain meds for chronic Lyme disease
and mess up their liver. Sad
It would not suprise me if half the so called drug addicts accused of taking pain killers for pleasure
did not turn out to be infected with some kind of illness for which they saw no other choice. And the
other percent will soon be sick for sure.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
Commonly Used Pain Drug Poses Serious Danger in Certain Cases, FDA Says
By DAN CHILDS and LAUREN COX ABC News Medical Unit
May 28, 2009
Excerpt:
. . . "I was taking Tylenol like I was supposed to, by the label," he said. A few days later the then 37-year-old Benedi was in a coma and in desperate need of a liver transplant. . . ."
Normal acetaminophen dosage can trigger liver failure in alcoholics
==============
That last entry is included with the thought that just as alcohol can cause liver damage, so do lyme toxins. So, anyone with toxins from any source - and liver stress from that - would also be at increased risk for liver damage with even normal doses of acetaminophen (found in acetaminophen and other OTC products as well as some prescriptions.)
We all need a liver in working order to help conquer lyme.
Liver stress will also increase brain fog, pain and inflammation, so it can be a deceptive circle.
The study examined the short-term effects of ibuprofen on 12 women with mild kidney disease who also had arthritis and high blood pressure, two illnesses that often prompt its use.
. . . gave participants above-normal doses of 800 milligrams of ibuprofen three times a day - the equivalent of 12 ibuprofen tablets - for up to 11 days.
After eight days, three women developed kidney failure, which reversed when ibuprofen was discontinued. The remaining nine women, who received ibuprofen for 11 days, showed changes in kidney function but did not develop kidney failure.
After recovering, the three women were given 400 milligrams of ibuprofen three times a day, equivalent to normal doses of the drug. Two of the three again developed kidney failure but recovered when the ibuprofen was stopped.
. . . .
- Full article at link above. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Keebler thanks for the info. I learned many years ago that liquor was my enemy. My liver screams at me if I consume for just one evening.
After reading your thread, I'm also wondering if my constipation, colon and intestinal issues with food are a cry from my body under stress and is compounded by tramadol & ibuprofen...
plus lyme, bart and mycoplasma Pn living and partying in my intestines. In my post I said I didn't have stomach problem to meds. But that's not true.
Past the stomach I've got issues.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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I am a Dreamer, Believer, and Conquer; I will overcome this disease !!! Posts: 382 | From Alabama Via PA | Registered: Jun 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- many links here to explain but, basically, the liver cannot manufacturer the precise enzymes (or in the required degree) to safety metabolize certain chemicals from our foods, meds or the environment - or the byproducts of infection and basic bodily function.
It can be a genetic condition - at least 11 different kinds - or acquired from chemical exposure or infection. It has various levels or degrees and can affect many functions from the toxicity overload of what is known as porphryins.
Porphryins are naturally a part of the detox process and a certain level is fine. It's when the levels get too high that cell death can occur.
IckyTicky
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 21466
posted
K... she wasn't on alcohol when she was being sedated for surgery. I believe the surgery was actually for her liver if I'm not mistaken. And she and her husband owned a winery (and used the money off that winery to do charity work).
I'm sure she probably had wine quite a bit, but wasn't an alcoholic. But she did self treat with narcotics that eventually damaged her liver.
I have no idea if she had an LLMD. I only spoke with her once or twice.
-------------------- IGM: 18+, 23+, 30+, 31+++, 34+, 39IND, 41++, 58+++, 66+, 83-93IND IGG: 31+, 39IND, 41+ Also positive for Mycoplasma Pneumoniae and RMSF. Whole family of 5 dx with Lyme. Posts: 1014 | From Texas | Registered: Jul 2009
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