canefan17
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posted
So do co-infections go into cyst form too?
When I started treatment (doxy, ceftin, plaquenil)...
I felt great after 3-4 months. 95% better on some days.
Ok... so the idea is I killed a lot and sent a lot into cyst form (fine I'm gonna pulse flagyl)
I have co-infections.... but they were a problem when i was on the above abx protocol. so does that mean co-infections go into cyst form as well?
If so... this isn't all so bad because I'll be treating/pulsing with high doses of flagyl.
So then why the need to switch to abx's that seemingly go after babs or bart?
That I don't get.
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TF
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posted
The antibiotics that are used to treat lyme are not effective in treating babs and bart. Each disease has its preferred meds.
I never heard of the coinfections going into a cyst form. I believe that only lyme does that.
Here's what Dr. B says regarding treatment of the coinfections:
"PIROPLASMOSIS (Babesiosis) GENERAL INFORMATION It had been thought that Babesia microti is the only significant piroplasm affecting humans. Now it is believed that many of the over two dozen known species of piroplasms can be carried by ticks and potentially be transmitted to the human. Unfortunately, we have no widely available tests for these non-microti species. That is why, again, a clinical diagnosis is required.
Piroplasms are not bacteria, they are protozoans. Therefore, they will not be eradicated by any of the currently used Lyme treatment regimens. Therein lies the significance of co-infections- if a Lyme patient has been extensively treated yet is still ill, and especially if they are experiencing atypical symptoms, suspect a coinfection." (p. 22)
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canefan17
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posted
So let me ask you this...
I felt 95% better while on Lyme treatment.
Wouldn't co-infections be causing me problems if I had them?
if they can't hide in cyst form... what do they do while we're treating lyme with doxy/ceftin/falgyl?
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massman
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posted
Babs is a parasite inside red blood cells. Not a bacteria. Sorry
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canefan17
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posted
Oh I see
So how does Zithromax address this?
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seekhelp
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posted
It doesn't really.
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sutherngrl
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posted
You can actually treat lyme and bart with some of the same meds. Babesia is another story. You need anti-malarial drugs for that.
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canefan17
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posted
So while treating parasites I could be treating babs?
For example... freeze dried garlic can seemingly put a dent in babs?
I still don't understand where does babs go while we're treating Lyme?
How can we get so much better while treating for lyme... if babs is still a player and DOESN'T go into cyst form?
The parasites/babs hide?
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canefan17
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suthern,
What drugs are people using for lyme/bart?
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sutherngrl
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Can, did you test positive for Babs?
Also I read somewhere that doxy has been used to treat malaria, maybe it has some effect on babesia.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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quote:Originally posted by canefan17: 1. So while treating parasites I could be treating babs?
2.For example... freeze dried garlic can seemingly put a dent in babs?
3.I still don't understand where does babs go while we're treating Lyme?
1. Probably. Couldn't you treat Lyme while doing a parasite cleanse?? 2. Garlic for babs???? Don't think so! 3. It's still there in your face. Some LLMD's rotate Lyme and babesia meds so that neither gets the upper hand. A few wks on one, then a few weeks on the other.
1. OH.. I see what you mean... babesia is NOT like regular parasites in your gut. It is a parasite in your blood.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
Lyme is my co-infection. Doxy made my Bart really mad. So doxy does hit bart, just not very effectively.
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canefan17
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posted
Well i went on malarone + zith for 2 weeks.
Did NADA.
If I were dealing with babs wouldn't I have herxed from that big time! Considering we did strong dosage for first 4 days too. To see what we're dealing with.
Suthern, No. I've never actually tested positive for babs.
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sutherngrl
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posted
Well maybe you don't have it. I mean of course the chance is there, but not everyone with lyme has babs.
Also you can have a partial immunity to babs, so maybe your own body is able to fight it off.
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canefan17
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posted
Let's hope.
I know that before I was diagnosed with Lyme i was treated for H Pylori (random doc in fort worth found out through urea breath test)
So he put me on Clarythromycin 1000mg and Amoxcicillan 1000mg
The herx put me in the hospital. I thought I was having a allergic reaction to the drugs (I didn't know what a herx was then)
So that combo hit something.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
My guess is that it is most important to go after the Lyme...unless you have unbearable symptoms that are clearly not related to Lyme.
Dr. Burrascanno himself stated that he has come around to believe targeting Lyme is the most important part of treatment, and I don't want to quote him but something about hitting the Lyme gets patients better and co-infections can often be self-limiting.
I know a patient who tested positive for Babesia and had the classic sweats but when she was on Bicillin LA felt better than she had in years. Attacking her Lyme put her in a good place.
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Acccording to literature, Amoxicillin and Doxycycline are definitively believed to induce "polymorphism"...spawning survival forms. Recently now some study (Eva Sapi) claims that Plaquenil causes cyst formation too...Brorson's studies showed Plaquenil to destroy cysts so...?
As for Ceftin, I haven't heard it diretly accused of that but Weintraub discussed in her book how the dose must be high to "stealth bomb" the bacteria. Some LLMD's claim low doses give the bacteria a better chance to form cysts, instead of hammering them and harming them right away before they hide.
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sparkle7
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posted
Migs - are you talking about Bb or the co-infections. The question was about the co-infections...
Do babesia, bart, etc. go into cyst forms when treated?
Someone mentioned it here but I don't know. I haven't read enough about them to know.
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canefan17
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posted
sparkle,
The responses I got were..
Babs is a parasite found in red blood cells Bart can be treated with similar abx's to lyme. So most are usually treating Bart as well.
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canefan17
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posted
What migs says about hitting them HARD with heavy abx's makes sense.
My example above when I struck Lyme for the first time with 2000mg of clarythromyci and amoxc
created the biggest herx I've had to date.
That truly must be what it feels like to hit those *******ssss.
I haven't experienced that again. I know that I need to though.
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TF
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posted
Can, you said:
"So let me ask you this...
I felt 95% better while on Lyme treatment.
Wouldn't co-infections be causing me problems if I had them?"
I also felt 95% better while on lyme treatment. I was being treated by a doc who did not believe in coinfections. So, all he treated me for was lyme. Each time I tried to stop my meds, I was sick as a dog within 2 weeks--just as sick as when I started treatment. So, I would have to start them up again. Finally, I switched to a Burrascano doc.
The Burrascano doc tested me for cos through Igenex. He was surprised at my results--I had both bart and babs.
So, mine is a case in which I got virtually symptom-free while on only lyme treatment.
Where did the babs and bart go during that time? I would say, looking back, that they were the cause of the 5% symptoms I still had. In other words, when I was treated for the babs and bart, I got to 100% normal. I was not at 100% normal from just lyme treatment. I felt great compared to how I had felt for the last 10 years, but not totally normal.
So, I believe that the lyme and cos have a synergistic effect. The sum is greater than the individual parts. While you are knocking out the lyme, the cos can't make you as sick as they did when the lyme was dominating your immune system and attacking your nerves and other bodily systems. But, stop attacking the lyme, and in a short time, all 3 diseases dominate you again.
These diseases all work together to remain in your body. They help each other survive. That's why Burrascano says you can't get rid of lyme disease until you also get rid of every coinfection the patient has.
So, you seem to be following in my footsteps.
Next step is total health regained!!
(I know that for many people, it seems that once they treat lyme, their coinfections act up even more. That just wasn't my case.)
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canefan17
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posted
TF,
No coincidence that I'm on Dr. B's protocol too.
but so let me ask you this...
After you treated Lyme for awhile (which I'm assuming you did first)...
Did you go after babs 2nd and bart 3rd?
Did you do a maintenance protocol once you were in the clear?
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TF
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posted
We treated bart second and babs third. THen, I was done.
The doc expected that he would have to retreat me for lyme at the end of coinfection treatment, but that was unnecessary in my case.
The way it happened was, I was symptom-free for about 5 months and so I stopped taking the meds prior to my final appt with the doc. When I saw him and told him I stopped the meds, he asked me how long and how I felt. Then, he said I was finished.
All he did after that was restore my gut which was 30 days of Florestor and stay on the anti-yeast diet, if I am remembering correctly.
I was not given any maintenance protocol. I don't do anything to maintain my cure. (In about 2 months, it will be 5 years since I completed my lyme treatment.) But, I do not drink or smoke. That is very important. (Both of these things weaken your immune system.) I had stopped doing those things long before I got lyme disease.
I know a Burrascano-type lyme doc who believes a "cured" lyme patient will relapse if they go back to smoking. It makes sense to me.
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canefan17
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posted
Thanks TF. Great stuff.
You definitely keep me motivated on the Dr B protocol.
I've been following it to a T and have had great success so far.
but I've hit that point in treatment (5-6 months in) where it's time to make a decision and start hitting co-infections possibly.
TF... How long did you stay on each infection?
Lyme vs Bart vs Babs (maybe a timetable for us)
Also... did you stay on abx's straight through or pulse and cycle stuff?
^^ My last question i promise : )
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