Topic: Has lyme treatment helped your thyroid disorder?
lightparfait
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Just wondering if anyones lyme treatment has helped with lessoning thyroid symptoms?
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runner21
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I have to supplement with T3 and iodine. (i think due to swimming i need more iodine) Runner
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cantgiveupyet
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I did when I first started Armour.. a few years ago...my fatigue gradually lifted and I was able to gain weight( weight gain may or may not have been because of Armour)
My body temps also went up from 94 to around 97.
Im off meds now as I have Rt3 going on and need a Dr to treat figure out why I react to T3 (cytomel) (most endocrinologists wont treat rT3)
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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Runner...why more iodine with swimming...is this chlorine related...or exertion related.
Just read this interesting site from another post iodine:
My ND just ART tested me yesterday...and found I need Iodine added to my CORE minerals i'm on for KPU...
She found a very week thyroid...tested the iodine wit the core minerals and it seemed to make the thyroid testevery strong.
ART does not diagnose, only shows what the body is lacking today...so I was very strongly lacking it. I"m concerned to take it...but may give it a try, as I still have all hypothyroid symptoms after lyme is gone.
I just thought I was experiencing hormonal issues, not thinking it was thyroid at all...as I have always for the past 20 years, had my thyroid checked as I have had every low thyroid symptom on the list....and my thyroid was always in the normal range.
NO MD every took me seriously unti other auto immune conditions started to develop, and then lyme!
Lyme is gone, but something is still not in balance! Wondering if allergie immune is opening up detox pathways re-activating these symptoms.
Would love to find an endo who will look at the whole picture, but dont think they exist in NJ.
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cantgiveupyet
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I have been to about 5 endos... one told me that hormones change so much that labs dont matter (but he still went by labs to diagnose)
Lightparfait- how do you know your lyme is gone?
this is a concern for me...I dont know if I am battling lyme and co or hormone imbalance or both.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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Blood labs are now negetive after 1 1/2 years of treatment for co-infections...but also I use energetic testing to confirm...and now it is negetive also.
Originally I was positive for lyme both by blood and Autonomic response testing...I did standard abx protocols and also cleared co-infections...
But when I started to detox(just to take a few months break from abx, before going on an IV) from effects of abx, candida, parasites, chemicals, metals, removed mercury amalgams...my immune system finally was able to kick in on its own...now I test no lyme as well as my daughter. We both have no more herxes and certain extreme symptoms have gone...which is how we can now know for us, what was lyme and what remains.
My experience has shown me that lyme and the co-infections are the tip of the iceberg..they are the warning signs that something else is radically wrong, silently inside that sets each of us up for a unique avalanche of symptoms and conditions that can lead to debilitating disease.
Just my experience and intuition now...
I was one to think it was all lyme...but now I understand that it is not all lyme for those with chronic lyme symptoms.
This is hard for some to accept...but I now only follow the ones who are lyme free, and understand. And will share what I have experienced to help anyone else who may be able to compare situations. There is no cookie cutter approach to curing lyme...Your body has to do it naturally I believe...by clearing it so it can do its job!
I know there is a time and season to be on abx...and a time for them to accomplish what they can...but then you must intuitively know when the time to move on and work from another angle would be more beneficial for you. Our co-s were removed with doxy! But we never targeting the lyme with abx as was previously intended. This was fortuitous for us.
No magic pill...but time to heal the body and remove debris...the ones who move slowly and methodically seem to get lasting results.
I am doing allergie Immune now to clear the pathways so things like my hormones, thyroid etc have a chance to function normally...we will see. This is an experiment for me. But other little things are clearing with it..like peeling the onion...so it has been all positive so far!
Cantgiveup...can you get energetically tested...Call Dr. K's office in WA, and see if they can recommend a local ART practitioner near you. You can be tested for the lyme and each co-infection frequencies! And you can be tested to see what the priority is to work on clearing for improvement with your particular condition. Much cheaper than Igenex retesting!
If you still have lyme, there may be a better approach for your body than what you are doing now..you can test your current protocols as well. This was the beginning of my healing.
When you are off abx...you may be in a good place to do the AI therapy as well. All depends on what you are open to doing.
blessings lp
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GiGi
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Check out the Brownstine dosing and everything else relating to thryoid, K2, Vit A, etc.
In a hurry!
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cantgiveupyet
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My body might just be unresponsive to ART testing, I have had it done in the past by a LLMD and my body even rejected water
I also had the test done where they test different points on your hand , feet etc with a probe and match it with diffeent frequencies. They found Candida, and thyroid adrenal problems too. But prior to the testing i listed that I was having those issues- so I didnt trust it.
I know what has worked for me treatment wise , but not sure what to do going forward...that is why I am looking into the thyroid and other hormonal imbalances...which are finally showing on labs as abnormal. I now have a positive ANA too.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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Great post gigi!
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canefan17
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Ya, I read through it too.
Good stuff in there
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CherylSue
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Although my thyroid tested normal, I have small benigh nodules in my thyroid, a small goiter. I've been gaining so much weight, too, as I'm heading towards remission (90%). My new LLMD thinks that the infections affect my thyroid.
We've been treating my adrenals with Isocort, but I've backed off because THAT is making me gain weight.
At my absolute Lymie worst, I lost 25 lbs and everyone was telling me how great I looked including hubby, but I felt awful. Now that I'm feeling better, I'm bloated and puffy.
What is happening here?
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canefan17
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Ya, I've lost 20 lbs so far. can't seem to gain any back.
Sounds like the isocort got your adrenals straightened out to the point you were absorbing food better.
Now puffy face and bloated does sound like hypothyroid.
By the way... how did you find out you had nodules in thyroid?
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Hi Cane- I know I'm not Cherylsue- but thought I'd tell you that my endocrinologist "thought' she felt something on my thyroid and followed up with a sonogram-which confirmed that i had a nodule. At least that's how it happened for me.
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posted
Guess we're back to discussing thyroid in Medical now?
Anyway- Light parfait- my lyme treatment did NOT help lessen my thyroid -in fact it got worse. I think Rocephin was found to interfere with synthroid.
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posted
Guess we're back to discussing thyroid in Medical now?
Anyway- Light parfait- my lyme treatment did NOT help lessen my thyroid -in fact it got worse. I think Rocephin was found to interfere with synthroid.
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canefan17
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What did you have to do for it?
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I was supposed to have a biopsy taken- but I never did- and I moved- and I need to hook up with another endocrinologist. Bad Patient bad bad patient.
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canefan17
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Would I biopsy just show you if it were cancerous?
Tryin to see what biopsys can help you determine.
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springshowers
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Yep I guess we are.. back to talking about Thyroid issues and also.. Dry Skin and Supplements and Apple Cider Vinegar and Pain Meds and thinning hair and most outrageous thing a doctor has said to you and itchy throat and on and on..
That is my point with the post I started i general. I do not see how you can change what the status is now and what would be left really??
So i have a feeling it will all just stay the same..
PS My thyroid issues got worse and worse while sick and as I get better it does not get better.. not so far.. as a matter of fact it has progressed to be worse than it was and worse than I thought.
I was without my meds for a month and I thought it should not be a big deal ( i was taking just a low does and did not have huge problems..) but.. it was not good at all and kinda scareds me now what the status is now and I need to get tested again .. soon..
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map1131
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I was hypothyroid and goiter before lyme (one never knows for sure when their true journey began with this illness) with lots of family history of thyroid issues.
Since illness ('99) my dosage has only increased one time and never had to be lowered. Many times I've asked for thyroid blood test because I would of bet money that I needed an increase.
Internists says my levels are fine. But something just doesn't seem right for long periods of time and then I go through a better period.
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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cantgiveupyet
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all but my post about the thyroid... it is burried now in general with very few replies :-(
If anyonesles has input please check out my post in general support. Thanks
I went to an endo that did a scan of my thyroid in his office... years ago after tick bite I had one done too... Doctors have always suspected my thyroid was the culprit but labs until now showed it was ok.
quote:Originally posted by springshowers: Yep I guess we are.. back to talking about Thyroid issues and also.. Dry Skin and Supplements and Apple Cider Vinegar and Pain Meds and thinning hair and most outrageous thing a doctor has said to you and itchy throat and on and on..
That is my point with the post I started i general. I do not see how you can change what the status is now and what would be left really??
So i have a feeling it will all just stay the same..
PS My thyroid issues got worse and worse while sick and as I get better it does not get better.. not so far.. as a matter of fact it has progressed to be worse than it was and worse than I thought.
I was without my meds for a month and I thought it should not be a big deal ( i was taking just a low does and did not have huge problems..) but.. it was not good at all and kinda scareds me now what the status is now and I need to get tested again .. soon..
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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Pam...Ihad the same situatin as you...hypotyhroid and goiter before lyme diagnosis...but the hypothyroid and goiter situatin left...and I was then diagnosed eith high ANA/lupus.
I was hoping all this would clear when my lyme was in remissin...thinking lyme caused all this...but now I know there is another root to this...still hoping this will correct as I work on allergie immune therapy and detox. I am still learning. But now I see my thyroid is acting up again with every hypothyroid symptom.
Ran blood work yesterday just to see what is happening...
Just interested if others experience similar things.
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cantgiveupyet
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Lightparfait- any word on the new labs you had run?
Did the Dr check your Rt3?
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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What is rT3?
He did run labs for t3, but I will not get them back until probably next week. Thanks for asking....I will post.
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cantgiveupyet
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rT3- Is reverse T3
That is what is off for some reason with me...I have high rT3
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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Is rT3 a different test than T3?
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cantgiveupyet
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Yes it is a different test- most Doctors dont test for it though.
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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lightparfait
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Thanks Massman...i never knew much about the hypothalamus or pituitary...Possibly these are the roots of where my real problem with the thyroid dysfunction lies...lp
"In the HPA axis the command chain is looked at as: Hypothalamus Pituitary Thyroid Adrenals Ovaries or testicles
This means that the source of a problem may not be where the problem expresses itself. Dr. U who has a system like Dr. K says that 80% of problems showing up in the ovaries do not originate in the ovaries.
That means correctly assessing + treating the organs that start the problem IS the solution. (Source: my personal notes from a seminar with Dr. U 2005)
So continually assessing + treating the thyroids + adrenals for a supposed thyroid problem may not work well as the pituitary + hypothalamus have not been considered."
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lightparfait
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Yah...I do have these issues big time...thanks.
"The Hypothalamus Essentials"
* The portion of the brain that maintains the body's internal balance (homeostasis). * The hypothalamus is the link between the endocrine and nervous systems. * The hypothalamus produces releasing and inhibiting hormones, which stop and start the production of other hormones throughout the body.
The hypothalamus plays a significant role in the endocrine system. It is responsible for maintaining your body's internal balance, which is known as homeostasis. To do this, the hypothalamus helps stimulate or inhibit many of your body's key processes, including:
* Heart rate and blood pressure * Body temperature * Fluid and electrolyte balance, including thirst * Appetite and body weight * Glandular secretions of the stomach and intestines * Production of substances that influence the pituitary gland to release hormones * Sleep cycles
The hypothalamus is involved in many functions of the autonomic nervous system, as it receives information from nearly all parts of the nervous system. As such, it is considered the link between the nervous system and the endocrine system. You can learn more by reading a SpineUniverse article about the nervous system.
Hormones of the Hypothalamus The hypothalamus is highly involved in pituitary gland function. When it receives a signal from the nervous system, the hypothalamus secretes substances known as neurohormones that start and stop the secretion of pituitary hormones.
Primary hormones secreted by the hypothalamus include:
* Anti-diuretic hormone (ADH): This hormone increases water absorption into the blood by the kidneys.
* Corticotropin-releasing hormone (CRH): CRH sends a message to the anterior pituitary gland to stimulate the adrenal glands to release corticosteroids, which help regulate metabolism and immune response.
* Gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH): GnRH stimulates the anterior pituitary to release follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH), which work together to ensure normal functioning of the ovaries and testes. * Growth hormone-releasing hormone (GHRH) or growth hormone-inhibiting hormone (GHIH) (also known as somatostain): GHRH prompts the anterior pituitary to release growth hormone (GH); GHIH has the opposite effect. In children, GH is essential to maintaining a healthy body composition. In adults, it aids healthy bone and muscle mass and affects fat distribution.
* Oxytocin: Oxytocin is involved in a variety of processes, such as orgasm, the ability to trust, body temperature, sleep cycles, and the release of breast milk.
* Prolactin-releasing hormone (PRH) or prolactin-inhibiting hormone (PIH) (also known as dopamine): PRH prompts the anterior pituitary to stimulate breast milk production through the production of prolactin. Conversely, PIH inhibits prolactin, and thereby, milk production. Thyrotropin releasing hormone (TRH): TRH triggers the release of thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH), which stimulates release of thyroid hormones, which regulate metabolism, energy, and growth and development.
Hypothalamic diseases can include appetite and sleep disorders, but because the hypothalamus affects so many different parts of the endocrine system, it can be hard to pinpoint whether the root cause of the disorder is actually related to another gland.
In particular, the hypothalamus and pituitary gland are so tightly connected that it's often difficult for doctors to determine whether the condition is associated with the hypothalamus or pituitary gland.
These are known as hypothalamic-pituitary disorders. However, there are hormone tests that help shed light on which part of the body is the root cause.
The hypothalamus is arguably the most essential of the endocrine system. By alerting the pituitary gland to release certain hormones to the rest of the endocrine system, the hypothalamus ensures that the internal processes of your body are balanced and working as they should.
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runner21
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Hi LIght, Yes, iodine and bromine are like sisters..the body thinks bromine is like iodine. many swimmers have this issues.
Sorry, in a hurry ! hope that helps
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runner21
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What page is brownstein diagnosiing on?
Posts: 1118 | From jacksonville,fl usa/santa rosa ca | Registered: Dec 2001
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"...Yes, iodine and bromine are like sisters..the body thinks bromine is like iodine. many swimmers have this issues..."
Lightparfait, nice posts. You're a good communicator.
-------------------- My biofilm film: www.whyamistillsick.com 2004 Mycoplasma Pneumonia 2006 Positive after 2 years of hell 2006-08 Marshall Protocol. Killed many bug species 2009 - Beating candida, doing better Lahey Clinic in Mass: what a racquet! Posts: 830 | From Mass. | Registered: Aug 2006
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canefan17
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Bromine is a halogen just like iodine. And if your body has too much of it... it will occupy the sites iodine should be.
So he's saying swimmers typically have an issue with this.
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canefan17
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Most people with Chronic Diseases have high rT3.
It's the bodies way of cooling the system off and getting the thyroid to slow down.
When placed under a lot of stress(from bacteria or anything) the body will go to great lengths to calm the system down.
So it purposely inhibits the conversion of T4 to T3... instead creating high amounts of rT3(the mirror image of T3)
This slows down the thyroid function, metabolism, body temp, etc etc.
I've been told by a few people not to mess with Thyroid stuff for this EXACT reason.
They say to put the focus on the adrenals before supplementing synthetic hormones or your body will go into overdrive again. This can only help the bacteria.
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massman
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She says white I say black She says stop I say go go go
Don't heal those organs Just keep playing with those theories + numbers
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lightparfait
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Runner...Interesting about the bromime....my daughter has big rash and breathing reactions when swimming in bromine pools in her competitions. Her acne gets worse too...
do they ever use bromine and chlorine together is some pools? I thought it was either or...but I could be wrong.
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lightparfait
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Massman...I hear you and agree about healing first...but many of us are confused of where to begin and what to do. Or is it important at all to know where the dysfunction lies ?
We have been raised and conditioned on dealing with individual medical issues when they arise and it is foreign to know how to ascertain which direction to follow for most.
I am in agreement that most of this is all connected...one effects the other in an non ending circle of interconnections.
How are you healing the organs? What specifically would you recommend?
Are you using certain support substances for specific organs?...or just doing a basic nutritional regime hoping you are absorbing the nutrients and balancing naturally without specific targeted protocols.
I am on a healing quest and love to know what works for people, and gleen what knowledge I can. You are very knowledgeable.
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lightparfait
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Here is whre I read some of Brownsteins info;
posted
I have not worked with overall bloodwork for about 15 years so I can't give advice on all of it.
The lab TSH range is pretty outdated. Their upper end of the TSH range is pretty high. At the level yours reads you are probably high.
The cholesterol total IMO is fine although many would say no. Current recommended levels are to up drug sales + that is all. Lots of consistent advertising about cholesterol + fat is BS. Rant on that done now.
I have noticed that some lymies do produce more cholesterol than they have in the past.
Autoimmune means somehow the immune system is perceiving certain parts of the body as dangerous. This is common nowadays.
Some theories on how to help this include using parts of specific glands (here we go...) to act as decoys so your immune system attacks them instead of your glands. Your glands can then begin to heal.
Hope this helps a bit. IMO most docs are stuck on numbers + playing with them.
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lightparfait
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Thanks Massman...I understand how the docs are stuck on the numbers...they are afraid t treat if they have no documented backup!
I'm not convinced either way yet...so I'm just absorbing all the available good advice...it feels like trial and error! I've made too many errors by following my "expert MD's " recommendations i the past...so I am very cautius about any treatments, especially with the thyroid issue!
I would love to heal the most natural way as possible...but think something is blocking the healing...possibly metals as some have suggested.
Interested you say the lab TSH range is outdated...this is labcorp.
Thanks for helping.
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canefan17
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Autoimmune means somehow the immune system is perceiving certain parts of the body as dangerous. This is common nowadays.
Some theories on how to help this include using parts of specific glands (here we go...) to act as decoys so your immune system attacks them instead of your glands. Your glands can then begin to heal.
^^^ Can you explain this in further detail?
Parts of specific glands as a decoy? for example.....?
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massman
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Aww...cane, talked about this before, nobody listens or tries suggestions.
As a species I feel most of us are scared shipless to try anything new. Or be a seeker
posted
My journey toward illness began many years ago with a multinodular goiter. It was totally removed. Looking back, I realize that was a mistake. No one ever thought to ask WHY I suddenly had it or why I was suddenly gaining weight. I had always been on the underweight size.
Then I had nodules in my sinus removed...twice.
We now believe that all this was an autoimmune response, probably triggered by an infection. Autoimmune disease runs in my family.
My LLMD in San Francisco has my natural thyroid compounded by his pharmacist for me. It is the highest dose I have ever received. And it is definitely changing my energy, et al.
We truly believe that there is a strong connection between this illness and thyroid function.
FWIW my father thinks my troubles began even years before when I was a teenager on a swim team. I swam nearly daily in an olympic sized pool and then on weekends we worked out in a polluted river. I started having blackouts and had to quit swimming. He thinks the river was toxic and hurt my up to then strong immune system.
Very puzzling.....
-------------------- DOCTOR: "I don't think you are sick." PATIENT: "We are all entitled to our opinions. I don't think you are a doctor." Posts: 697 | From Northern California | Registered: Jul 2009
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disturbedme
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Lyme treatment did not help my thyroid problems. What DID help was going gluten free. I was found to be gluten intolerant and as soon as I went 100% gluten free, my thyroid has been holding its own without medication and it's been a few months.
-------------------- One can never consent to creep when one feels an impulse to soar. ~ Helen Keller
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canefan17
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disturbed... very good point.
Hashi's and celiac are one and the same in most cases.
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canefan17
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mass,
I've heard of people using iodine topically as a decoy for auto-immune alopecia.
That's the only time i've ever heard of deceiving the auto-immune action.
That's why I was curious what you meant by using specific glands.
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cantgiveupyet
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I dont think I am shipless
what did you mean massman by 'parts of specific glands'
are they the supplements you suggested in one of the thyroid threads now stuck in general support?
thanks
-------------------- "Say it straight simple and with a smile."
"Thus the task is, not so much to see what no one has seen yet, But to think what nobody has thought yet, About what everybody sees."
-Schopenhauer
pos babs, bart, igenex WB igm/igg Posts: 3156 | From Lyme limbo | Registered: Oct 2005
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massman
Unregistered
posted
I know nothing...I have never seen patients or worked wiyh hormone problems...
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
I am so lost Massman. I thought you were a chiropractor for 20+ years. There are a LOT of sick people on this forum. If you have knowledge and are up to it, it would truly be nice to give some real direct advice to people even a few times. I am 100% clear you despise pharmaceuticals and highly recommend Inno-Vita and other mixed herbals.
I have a dry sense of humor at times and can be rhetorical, but it seems like every post lately you make is aimed at teaching the naysayers how uneducated they are about natural medicine. If you think you can tell every person here your opinion and have them all nod their heads like a robot in amazement and never-ending appreciation, good luck.
There will always be receptive people, non-interested people, and disbelievers. BUT, if your advice touches someone positively a few times, isn't it worth it? I just don't understand the disdain for us neanderthals who don't get 'energy' medicine and other alternative ideas.
I don't usually post things like this, but I admit I get a little frustated reading the same tone of post 500x. I wish you the best and sympathize if you're struggling with health problems like most here. I've just read so many posts saying things such as 'I can't believe you didn't read XYZ book so that means you just don't care.' Maybe people just don't have the energy or concentration abilities at times.
quote:Originally posted by massman: I know nothing...I have never seen patients or worked wiyh hormone problems...
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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massman
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posted
Not looking for head nods or bows ! Looking for yodels from the tops of mountains after improvement occurs
But free advice + or continuing ed suggestions from an alt doc are apparently not worth considering, from my experience here.
I feel that Steve Earle's lyrics do not apply here - "Whatever you do, be a Seeker."
Apparently if what you are doing is not working well, don't try something different. Just stay where you are. Then you can say "I tried everything. "
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seekhelp
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 15067
posted
Think about GiGi. Her advice is alternative in nature and she's literally worshipped on this forum. One thought she was banned caused 60+ angry people to revolt. I think 'alternative' is accepted here Massman. lol.
The difference is her advice is understandable and people can try to follow it. They don't have to wonder what does this person really recommend for treatment?
Posts: 7545 | From The 5th Dimension - The Twilight Zone | Registered: Mar 2008
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massman
Unregistered
posted
GiGi is excellent.
Alt that is accepted here is cheap vitamins + straight herbs. Used just like many drugs, to change symptoms.
I have posted the why, what + how of what I have recommended many times + have been straight about that. Peoples choice to act on those things or ignore them.
Lots of "Yeah, buts..." like with young kids.
Explore. Explore some more. For better results go beyond what is commonly said here. Clear enough ? Straight enough ?
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