Topic: Okay...so if untreated...what happens to the Babs Micr. parasite???
2roads
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posted
I just went on line reading about Babesia Microti after fussing with all the Mepron refill concerns w/r/to consistency.
Based on the text book therapy for treatment (7 days-3 months), and the fact that after 4 months of therapy we have now just isolated this parasite in our blood........what does modern medicine expect our bodies to do?
Are they saying that we will walk around and survive unscathed with this erythrocyte destroying parasite because a healthy body can keep up with the destruction?
'Cause, we're beyond conventional therapy and it's still in our blood.
Some parasites have life-cycles in the body and die on their own. I don't think Babesia Microti does that.
...or, are we supposed to be "healed" by now.
I'm sorry if this sounds so primal and ignorant, but I am tired of playing the Mep game and I'm worried that we will not beat this thing. Or, does society see people living with it?...with or without symptoms??
I need some thoughts here.
As always....thanks!
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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massman
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posted
If left untreated, it probably thanks you like this for a perfect life.
There are non drug ways to effectively treat it.
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lymewreck36
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Treat it as long as it takes, even if it is the rest of your life. This is a nasty bug. If you are tired of mepron, go the malerone/zith route. Make sure you are using zith and not biaxin. The parasite could morph is you are not taking zith.
Never let it get out of control.
Some people get better, and some carry it around forever it seems.
Mary
Posts: 1032 | From North Carolina | Registered: Aug 2003
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TF
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posted
I got rid of babesia microti by taking Bactrim DS 2 times per day for almost a year.
When I noticed a 7-day sick cycle, my doc had me add artimesinin 2 times per day on an empty stomach on the days I had the sick time (for me, Friday through Sunday).
The artimesinin was like a miracle. The first time I took it, it reduced the sick time from 48 hours to just 6 hours and the horrible sickness and feeling of doom was gone. I just had extreme need to sleep.
Every week, the sick time got less and less. Then, it went to every other week. Finally, it was gone. That's how we knew the babs was gone.
But, winter was coming on, so my lyme doc required me to stay on meds until spring. He says winter is a stress on the body so nobody should stop meds this time of year (could cause you to relapse).
All this was 5 years ago and I am still symptom-free, enjoying my life.
And, Bactrim DS is fairly cheap and so is artimesinin compared to mepron.
Give it a try. Hope it works for you.
Doc also had me eat raw garlic twice per day (or Kyolic) to boost immune system and do the Burrascano 1-hour weight lifting program every other day to boost immune system.
Doc told me I would never get well if I didn't do the exercise program.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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Amanda
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posted
Out of all the tick infections, Babs can get the most serious (well, ok, Rocky Mountain spotted fever could be more serious)
For people that ONLY have Babs, and do not have ANY other illnesses, AND treated it within the first month they got the infection, you can send Babs into a state of remission where your immune system is strong enough to clean up any additional mess.
I am having a hell of a time with Babs. Most people find that they need to treat with Babs with Mepron/zith for at least one year. But some of us are not responding to the MEpron anymore. Also, Babs for some is resistenat to the art
There is also LArium (costs about 150 a month), malarone (a lot more expensive, but still cheaper than Mepron). And like previous poster said, some have luck with Bactrim. Finally, there is clindamyacin with primaquin.
You just have to keep at it until you find what works for you.
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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sutherngrl
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2roads I feel your frustration!
I would like the answer to this concerning lyme. If there is no such thing as chronic lyme, and if we were never treated for early acute lyme, then where does the lyme go???
Does it just sit in the same state that it entered our body months or years before? Does it finally just poof......magically disappear on its own? If thats the case, then why even treat it in the acute stage???
Okay, I ranted a bit! Sorry!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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2roads
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posted
I'm wondering what my local Ped would say if I showed him the parasite blood result.
Would he say your son LOOKS fine and most people don't even know they have it and it doesn't ever effect them........so.......?
Would he say, treat?....even for 7 days?
I know what they say about lyme, just a few weeks. But, what about mild symptoms and Babs pos? We've had it for 5 years untreated, affirmed with positive antibody testing from way back.
I want to be able to defend my choices so I have to know what main stream medicine will argue against me.
Thanks
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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2roads
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posted
Southerngrl,
Just saw your post.
To me lyme is more straightforward right now.
Three months until symptom free no matter what main stream crap is thrown around.
But Babs is like .....something out of Clockwork Orange to some.
It's a never before heard word with 3 rd world mentality. And the meds are even more foreign. Seems like the info isn't much better on it. Therefore, I think opinions run variable and tend to down play it?????Maybe?????
What does this beasty thing do in the body over time?
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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2roads
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posted
ps- No, I think lyme buries deeper into the body if left untreated posing chronic health problems that range from subtle to extreme, and when the immune system takes a beating, it claims more territory.
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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sutherngrl
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posted
I think when I mentioned Babesia to my PCP, he scratched his head. Not sure if he never heard of it or just didn't believe the tick carried it.
Of course he doesn't think we have LD in Mississippi, so of course we don't have something like Babesia.
2roads are you trying to get treatment for babesia from mainstream medicine? I can't imagine that they would know one thing about it.
And who knows what babs does to us over time. Not sure anybody has the answer to that, including our LLMDs. But at least they are willing to treat until we are well.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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2roads
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posted
No, I am treating with a reputable LLMD.
But, since this problem is not going away anytime soon (screw me), I'd like to know what ignorance I may have to defend against.
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Bactrim is 2 different folate inhibitors in one pill. malarone is atavaquone (mepron) plus proquanil (another folate inhibitor). So by comparison bactrim + artemisinin is like malarone on a budget, but still with plenty of kick. Weekend 3 of treatment has begun. Lots of yawning, a little midweek craziness and last night slept 9 hrs. I have not done that in a long, long time . . . 1.5 -2 yrs at least. Boy did that feel good.
Beachinit.
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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canefan17
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posted
Can you beat Babs with arteminisin only?
Buhner recommends 30-40 days on arteminisin (of course also with cats claw and resveratrol)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Amanda
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posted
I think Babesea is just beginning to make it on main stream medical radar screen.
If you live in NorthEast US, you have a slightly better chance of regular MDs knowing about the disease.
But even a couple of the very conservative IDSA docs have come out and made comments about the need for repeat courses of Mepron/zith, and the fact that mepron/zith might not work for immunocompromised with B. microti.
No one really knows how Babesea remains dormant in someones body for weeks or even years, or even WHERE in the body it goes. This, unlike malaria, where they know that one of the life cycle forms of the malaria parasite sets up residence in your liver, and waits it out.
I am sorry to report that livestock vetrinarians know a lot more about Babesea than most medical MDs (actually, you can also say that for lyme)
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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(Disclaimer: This is just a joke. The Babs parasite will not grow into a large alien and well, you know the rest. I'm guessing that it might feel like it though.) Posts: 386 | From Southeastern PA | Registered: Oct 2007
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massman
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posted
"No one really knows how Babs remains dormant in someones body for weeks or even years, or even WHERE in the body it goes."
It studied that class, Survival Techniques, under lyme. Got an "A", too
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tick battler
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posted
I think Buhner now recommends cryptolepsis instead of artemesia as his first choice for babs treatment. I have my kids on it now. Too early to tell if it's working.
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
I used Micro-site from Inno-Vita and began to see lots of small red things in my urine on the second day + after that.
I did urinate into an empty plastic water jug to have a chance to study it. It comes in capsules + liquid. www.inno-vita.com
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sparkle7
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re: small red things in my urine
Does this have any scientific validation as to what this was? I don't know much about medicine but I don't know if you can say this is a legitimate rationalization of a "cure" for babesia. There are probably many reasons you could have "red things" in your urine...
I would think that babesia is probably not visible to the naked eye.
I have heard that it may reside in the marrow. Some believe that it can go dormant after treatment for up to 18 months (maybe more) & then come back.
I believe there are strains that have different symptoms than the usual ones. I posted a bunch of studies on another thread that state that mepron is not effective in many cases. In a study with dogs - the relapse rate was 5 out of 8...
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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massman
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posted
What oh what does the Babs usually live in ?
And might they die when the babs is killed ?
I did do a large DBPC Study but the British Medical Journal hasn't published it yet
I actually observed the changes in my urine. (Yeow !!! an observation )
Those changes were not there before I started the Micro-site and were gone after I stopped the Micro-site.
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massman
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posted
I did not say anywhere that I saw the babs. That is why I ask questions, so you, not everyone else, might get a clearer picture.
Do you realize what babs lives in ? That is what I think I might have seen.
sutherngrl
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posted
Doesn't babs live in the red blood cells?
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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Amanda
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Yes, Babs does live in the red blood cells. That they know for sure, sorry I wasn't clear about that.
What they don't know however is where else do they go when they hide?
Babesea is a protozoan. They go through different life cycle stages. The question is do they stay inside the red blood cells in very low numbers, such that you don't really feel the effects of it. And then if so, why would it suddenly "bloom" again?
I suppose it is possible that the Babs only hangs around in your red blood cells, but my non-medical opinion is that this isn't a very good place to stay hidden in the body. Infected Red blood cells floating around are likely to encounter white blood cells which would recognize them.
The lyme bacteria gets out of the blood stream as soon as possible, and sets up residence in areas where they are least likely to encounter your immune system (nervous systems, deep in joints etc). That is one reason why they are so good at evading the immune system
Who knows? I think probably the best people to ask about Babs are Dr. F and the folks at clongen labs...oh, and any livestock vet (certain forms of Babs cause a lot of problems for livestock)
-------------------- "few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" - Mark Twain Posts: 1008 | From US | Registered: Dec 2007
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massman
Unregistered
posted
sutherngrl - you got it ! Thanks.
Some that post here seem to think it is a bacteria, like lyme.
And I see that I forgot to post my goofy disclaimer stating I make NOTHING by recommending any products.
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2roads
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posted
Okay Lyme family..........we are family (family does feud) ya know....
That is an interesting point. Both Tickbattler and I have seen in our kids that we can get negative results but after several months of therapy these damb parasites are still there and actually start to show up on a smear.
So, they have to go into hiding somewhere. I gwould say they congregate where they can feed....on rbc production sites like the marrow and, spleen seems to be a hot spot.
I am assuming that it is a good sign that they are now out in the blood like bees out of a hive getting wacked at.
Mine did not require artemisinin, but did require therapy to target them to get them ****ed off. We did a spell of Malarone as well.
Tickbattler, Alv said to use Crypto for Bart, I would love to know what dose you are using for the kids and how this is going w/r/to Babs. I think I might want to add it for my 7 year old. Please respond.
Hugs to everyone.
2roads
Posts: 2214 | From West Chester, PA | Registered: Aug 2003
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tick battler
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posted
Hi 2roads,
By the way, where is Alv? I never see her on this board anymore...she had such great info! How do I get in touch with her?
I have heard from others that crypto can hit bart. It actually tested as hitting bart with one of my kids when we did electrodermal testing with it. It tests better for babesia though.
You can speak with Kate at Woodland Essence to get details on dosage, but I can tell you that she told me to basically give your child half his/her weight in drops twice daily. My boys weigh 46 lbs, so I give them 23 drops twice/day. She is an herbalist herself.
I have not used it long enough to be able to tell you if it works, but it did test well with the electrodermal testing machine.
Hope this helps,
tickbattler
Posts: 1763 | From Malvern, PA | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Regarding where babesia resides I have seen the Maltese cross inside a RBC on my own slide so I have personally verified its intra-erythrocytic presence. I actually was about to stop looking at the slide, all the other red blood cell were normal pink, biconcave etc. . . . then I saw the mirror image of one misshapen "S" back to back with its mate and sitting inside a red cell. At that point my worrying about Babesia was over. Never did any other test though and do not see any reason to do them now. Taking Bactrim (every day) and Art 3/7 days weekly. (also taking zith for other co' coverage). Doing ok so far. Mood goes up on day 1, down day 2,etc. Sometimes there are increase symptoms but they are very transient. Yawning a lot and wanting to stay in bed more and able to sleep a lot more at times which is a very good thing. So far my experience is a lot like TF who has posted on another Art thread within past couple days. From what I am hearing about Mepron if the Artemisinin works I will be very thankful.
Hoping to be off Meds by Christmas.
Beachinit
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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sparkle7
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The first person to describe red blood cells was the young Dutch biologist Jan Swammerdam, who had used an early microscope in 1658 to study the blood of a frog.[4]
Unaware of this work, Anton van Leeuwenhoek provided another microscopic description in 1674, this time providing a more precise description of red blood cells, even approximating their size, "25,000 times smaller than a fine grain of sand".
---OK - so what you are saying is that you saw this in your urine, massman...? Due to using an herbal, multi-level marketed product... And because you saw these "red things" (whatever they were) that means you are cured of babesia?
Babesia is a parasite of the red blood cells & I'm assuming that it's probably much smaller than a red blood cell. You saw these in a plastic water bottle... Do you also have superpowers, too?
You know what they say about too good to be true.
I guess all of those people spending $1000s of dollars on mepron & other abx, herbal treatments, supplements are all stupid since InnoVita has the cure for babesia.... OK. That sounds right to me. LOL
---
Babesia can be uneventful in many people who may show little or no symptoms or it can be life threatening. There's a doctor who's name I'm not allowed to mention here who seems to have the most reference material about babesia & how dangerous it can be.
I don't know if it's the last word about babesia but it's quite informative. I think there are more strains than are currently recognized & that the symptoms may vary greatly.
Since there are a variety of strains, it's hard to know what the long term damage will be. It's really kind of a nightmare scenario. I don't mean to create any panic but it's very bad news, especially for people who are susceptible.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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massman
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posted
And you are a chemist, having extensively studied how much or how little parts of red blood cells may stick together possibly forming small clumps thay may tend to be visible in some fluids ?
Please look up the word "multilevel" so you can get an idea of what it means. Many businesses have a manufacturer and sales people, don't they ?
To apply the word multilevel to a traditional sales setup is quite a misunderstanding.
Where did I say I was cured of babs ?
Thanks to other posters in this thread. I am tired of sparkle [making up things about my getting] money from recommending specific supplements. (reworded by moderator)
Other posters recommend specific supplements on an ongoing basis + do not get harassed.
I am treating my babesia with artemisinin 3/7 days/week along with zith-daily and bactrim ds daily. Just finished week 3. My "art" days are fri,sat,sun. I does seem to be working for me. Also TF has posted his success (bactrim and artemisinin only). Treatment duration probably 8 months. Mepron,zith is more widely accepted though. I think mepron may be hard to tolerate for elderly, people with co-morbid conditions, un-insured etc. Too early for me to make the final call though.
Beachinit.
-------------------- Ideas not advice. Posts: 448 | From Downeast Maine | Registered: Jul 2009
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seekhelp
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posted
This post was manipulated a little bit from the original. lol.
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