This is a very interesting article. A member sent it to me and asked me to post it if I thought it was interesting. I'm guessing they didn't want to because it does mention the IDSA in somewhat of a positive light.
I would agree with the IDSA comment if I thought the IDSA had our well-being in mind .... but I think they have the $$$ in mind. If they could work with ILADS with constructive arguments, I think we would get farther in Lyme treatment.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Thanks. Great article !
Dr. Wulfman states "Food and drink is the number one contributor to chronic disease that I see. A study this year out of Canada found 90% of the children deficient in omega-3s. A study last year shows Splenda reduced beneficial fecal flora. The primary source of calories consumed in USA today is GM corn syrup. Next is white flour. There is a nutritional famine going on."
Many years ago my mentors' mentor, Dr. A. Stuart Wheelwright said "Disease begins with what you put on your plate."
Excellent insights by many of the docs.
How about everybody who reads this posts "Thanks" in this thread ?
Pretty please ? Even if you are not a poster, the world will not end - I promise
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
"You must go after the body burden of toxins through detoxification to stop the downward spiral."
That is what is needed, unpack, unload all that is stashed away in all the body compartments which the immune system is no longer capable of overseeing.
Only then do we have a chance to get well. It has been Dr. K's mantra from the first day I saw him in 1998. It is still his theme song today.
What is on the plate today, has little effect if the body no longer knows what is good or bad; that wheat and milk and eggs are a perfect food. When people have to survive on 5 foods, there is more wrong than right. If children can no longer tolerate mother's milk when they are born, there is more wrong than right.
Are we still able to detox? Why are children deficient in omega 3's? My mother and grandfather all ate white wheat and lived into their high 80's and 90's?
I wasn't so lucky because I inherited the first load from my parents - mostly metals and chemicals. I am still releasing these every day. It wasn't the tickbite that took me under - it never is. Only when I started to lighten the toxic load, did I come up for fresh air and infections started to loose out.
Take care.
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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sutherngrl
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Very interesting!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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Carol in PA
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posted
quote:Originally posted by massman: How about everybody who reads this posts "Thanks" in this thread ?
Okay massman, I read through the whole thing.
You do realize, that many people here have alot of brainfog, and can't get past one or two paragraphs.
Carol
Posts: 6947 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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massman
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posted
I'm not asking for a book report. Some days I have brainfrog
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springshowers
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posted
thanks
You have to detox. This is true.
Posts: 2747 | From Unites States Of America | Registered: Apr 2009
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sutherngrl
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posted
Although interesting, reading this stuff is a little depressing. To me, it is so much to take in and sounds almost impossible to ever achieve.
And for one thing I live in a state where "we don't really have LD". And on top of that there is no one around here that would know anything about this kind of stuff.
I sure can't figure out for myself what would be safe and reasonable to add to my regular antibiotic treatment. So for me all of this is very discouraging.
Much of it makes sense to me, however some of it might be a stretch of the imagination. I mean it makes sense to cleanse the body of what you can, and for sure eating the right things......which for some is a bit of a strain, unless you have plenty of money to afford and buy organic all the time.
And where do you run and hide from all the crap floating around in the air, bouncing off cell phones, cell towers, etc.? Live in a bubble?
And I sure can't travel to seattle for treatment!
When I read through all that info, for me at least it comes across almost as a hopeless situation that we're all in.
My own LLMD has never made me feel like I was in a hopeless situation. Although I on occassion make myself feel that way.
My own LLMD would very likely think the majority of this stuff was unneccssary. He cures ppl of LD without doing all of that.
Sometimes I wonder if our bodies aren't as helpless as this article makes them out to be. I mean sooner or later it seems my body would remember how to operate properly.
If I do all the work for it, maybe it will never remember how its designed to work. I think our body has a "memory" of how to function. I know mine did fine before LD. Maybe going to far out on a limb with some of this stuff would stiffle that memory. I know that in itself sound far fetched to some; but its just me thinking out loud.
I want answers and I want recovery. I have tried juicing as my form of better nutrition. I try to exercise, but usually to a miserable end.
I take all the basic supplements; but I get a little nervous about moving major toxins around that might be better off left to find their way out the way my body was designed to remove them. Haven't really dug deep enough into all that yet.
Anyway like I said my mood today may be effecting my thoughts on all this; but this information has me feeling like in all actuality there really is no escape from the results of the environment we live in.
And that all we can really do is go in for the kill and hope that as the bacterial load drops that our bodies start to perform the way they are designed to perform. Like I said my body seemed to be doing a darn good job of this before LD.
One thing I don't question is the fact that so many ppl even in my own family and my own generation are showing up with all these autoimmune disorders in seemingly epidemic proportions. And I guess that is why I am at the very least intrigued by this article.
Unfortunately there were not many "specific" answers or instructions in this article as to how to go about ridding ourselves of LD or "whatever" it is that we have.
All the causes were highlighted as to the difficulty of getting rid of illness; but nothing specific on how to actually do this for yourself. Finding anyone in my area that even remotely understands that would be more than a challenge.
I guess for now, I am going to continue to bomb the spirochetes and work a little harder on putting the right nutrition into my body to support health and detox.
I will remain open minded as to all the possibilities. And looking into more detox will be high on my list.
And I guess this is my book report!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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I can feel your frustration. I'm still in a place of learning and accepting the whole process as a necessity to full recovery: detox, metal chelation, supplements, herbs, ABX, AI therapy.
I think they all have a place within the healing process. I'm still learning about metal chelation and parasite cleansing. That's my next step in the process, as I've been giving months to ABX, supplements and vitamins.
GiGi,
What about parasite infections or malarial-types like Babesia?
If you had air hunger problems from Babs, would you still drop ABX and supplements to do detox and AI therapy only?
Posts: 829 | From MD | Registered: Dec 2009
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massman
Unregistered
posted
"hope that as the bacterial load drops that our bodies start to perform the way they are designed to perform. Like I said my body seemed to be doing a darn good job of this before LD."
One of the main points is detox must occur in most cases before the infectious agents will start to go down.
Unless the internal terrain is changed (internal environment) then the bugs will stay.
And as Gigi states, due to our severely polluted + toxic environment ongoing detox is constantly needed. Very sad but I feel very true.
The docs in the article are those that are dealing with + helping those with lyme. They are coming to common conclusions about detoxing. If your doc is healimg patients, WHY are you not doing well ?
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ping
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posted
Thanks 6. Interesting article.
Thanks massman. I am doing well.
-------------------- ping "We are more than containers for Lyme" Posts: 1302 | From Back in TX again | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
I believe the body has a remarkable ability to heal. When we get a cut, we don't have to think about it, it just heals. That is the nature of the body.
However, when the burden becomes more than the body can handle - pathogens, toxins, metals, etc. - then it needs help.
I am a believer in using abx if they are necessary to reduce the bug load. Also in using supplements (minerals, vitamins, herbs) to strengthen and detox. Also, sleep, diet, and exercise.
That's what attracted me to the Bionic treatment. It helps the body get rid of the pathogens itself. But that's not all there is wrong with those of us with Lyme. Even though I did no other treatment for the pathogens once I started photon treatment, I did TONS of stuff for detox and still do.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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sutherngrl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16270
posted
Massman I see you read my book report!
And to answer your question, many of my symptoms have resolved. I still have a ways to go but have had gradual improvement.
And yes my doc has healed many ppl that I know. And not just remission. Cured!
Anyway, I think this article is interesting, but I also think it and all forms of treatment can be debatable.
And even if you detox "before" treatment, the terrain still sucks because its full to the max with nasty little bugs!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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massman
Unregistered
posted
Terrain does not include bugs ! Terrain = internal environment.
The bugs are icky + it may make you feel yucky thinking about it but they are not the main problem.
What about Gary's doc that starts with detox + the patients begin to feel better in 2 and in Garys case 3 days ?
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posted
great article, thanks!
Posts: 98 | From NH | Registered: Mar 2010
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Remember to Smile
Unregistered
posted
Dear six and your source,
This article is excellent! I'll share it with friends & family.
There were SO MANY important points made and info provided that I will print this article so I can highlight things to research further.
The article was long, so I stepped away from my computer then returned to read it in three doses.
Thanks for introducing me to Townsend Letter, too. I found several additional articles of interest there, including one on liver cleanse & gall bladder flush. See: Liver Cleanse
sparkle7
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 10397
posted
Interesting...
They still don't know exactly what is making people ill. The tests are still unreliable and they still don't know if abx are the answer...
I never felt comfortable with endless abx. If they don't seem to be working in a few months - why would taking them for longer, at higher doses be the answer?
Then, there's the situation of the biofilm & the numerous pathogens that may be making a stronger community - fighting off anything we do to get well. Weaving a toxic web of pathogens, viruses, chemicals, metals... It seems to be smarter than most human organizations I know.
This is a very individual illness. We need individual solutions. There is no "one size fits all" approach. This is the opposite of what modern medicine has become.
It's really a tough nut to crack.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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sutherngrl
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posted
Massman said...... Terrain does not include bugs ! Terrain = internal environment.
Well my terrain does include bugs. And I did not feel yucky until the bugs were there.
I became ill suddenly and fast....why? Because I was bitten by a tick and got LD.
All I am saying is that nothing was wrong with my terrain before I got LD! Others may have had a different onset of illness; but for me it was the bugs that made me feel ill.
And why am I being pulled into some kind of arguement anyway??? I'm not against detox!
I think detoxing is a helpful addition; but I also think some people don't need as much in the way of detox.
Like Sparkle said....."This is a very individual illness. We need individual solutions".
Now stop picking on me Massman!
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Thanks for posting this article.
Posts: 847 | From upstateNY | Registered: Dec 2007
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TerryK
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posted
Thanks for posting the article six.
Interesting assessment that the article author comes to when they say that doctors have found that the genetic tests didn't really help much. I am guessing that at least some LLMD's/LLND's would not agree with that. From my experience, I have found the tests were instrumental in getting me on the right path to handling my specific issues.
I personally find that no tests are helpful unless the doctor doing the test can either direct the patient in what to do about the results or where to go to get help.
Also, if the doctor directs you, hopefully they've done enough research to understand how to correctly treat because some of this stuff is complex and treating it incorrectly can be dangerous especially where the release of heavy metals is concerned.
The epigenetics issue is something I've wondered about for a long time. I think it's possible that the reason so many autistic kids seem to be born to possible 2nd or 3rd generation lyme victims is because of lyme induced changes to our DNA.
It's also possible that some with congneital lyme have a harder time getting it under control because of lyme induced DNA changes that were passed on to us from our mothers.
Sutherngrl - There is a lot of information on the internet that can help you understand some of the things talked about in the article in more depth. There are also numerous groups on the internet, some led by doctors and patients with a lot of knowledge that can help. The lymenet archives have lots of information from previous posts with article links etc..
Take one thing at a time. Genetic testing, KPU testing, heavy metals testing etc. can help target the areas that you need to work on. Once you've educated yourself you can decide if you might need to pursue some of these issues. Finding a naturopathic doctor who is willing to help you may not be that hard. The last two insurance companies that I've been with have covered some of my naturopathic costs so if you go that route, be sure to check to see if you have insurance coverage.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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sparkle7
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posted
Yeah, I thought that was kind of curious about the statement about genetic testing...
"The most striking difference was that last year, the doctors flashed on the big screen lots of patients' slides revealing genetic testing and lab results. This year, there were almost none. The doctors who had "been there, done that" found that the tests didn't really help that much."
---
Seems some people here have had pretty strong results from KPU treatment. I'm considering trying the Yasko Simplified 5 Protocol. Methylation is studied by alot of people for cancer & other illnesses. I don't think you can just discount it so quickly.
It may not be "the" cure but it may be helpful. I'm sure there are people who don't detox easily. It may be genetics or it may be other issues.
We all have toxins in our systems. After a point - a poison is a poison. It may not matter if you detox well. I could see having blockages in the detox pathways wouldn't be good, though. If it's due to some genetic factor - seems like it would be helpful if it's possible to correct it.
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