posted
Can you explain the difference between PCR & having positive IgM bands. In 2008 my Igenex test reflected several postive IgM bands but a negative PCR test. A Dr. of mine said the PCR is the gold standard and regardless of the positive bands the negative PCR over rode any positive bands so I DID NOT have lyme. But my symptoms are getting worse and worse. I was recently retested & I am waiting on my new Igenex test results.
Posts: 4 | From Florida | Registered: Feb 2010
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'Kete-tracker
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
your doc's whacko. Since when does one negative PCR test (fails to sense DNA for Lyme) "over-ride" positive bands on the Western blot's IgM panel?
Statistically, many to most PCR tests run are "negative" for Lyme... in patients WITH Lyme. You have to be lucky enough to catch some of the spirochetes, or their pieces, in that particular bodily fluid sample.
My fav L.L. doc, Doctor R. (out of NYC), said in a post-U.O.S. screening discussion last summer that he felt that ONE band + on the "blots", IF Lyme-Specific, was enough to diagnose Lyme if the patient was symptomatic. "How else would that anti-body show up?" [other than exposure to the Lyme borrelia] Other senior Lyme doctors have said the same: http://www.mdjunction.com/lyme-disease/articles/dr-cs--western-blot-explanation---lyme-facts
A positive PCR test result IS confirmation of infection with borrelia Burgdorferi. (Unless someone contaminated the fluid sample in the lab, in error. ) A NEGATIVE result means NOTHING. {Idiot...}
BTW...what body fluid did they use? Blood? Knee fluid? Spinal (tap) fluid? Some fluids, like the latter, rarely contain the creature, & yet they keep on using it. ??
GOOD news is that IgeneX tests for Lyme are more accurate than most labs, but they really should be interpreted by an experienced Lyme-literate doc. Posts: 1233 | From Dover, NH | Registered: Sep 2008
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TerryK
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posted
Ditto what kete-tracker said.
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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sutherngrl
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Member # 16270
posted
Ditto again to what kete-tracker said.
My LLMD agrees that one specific lyme band is total proof. But he still stands by the fact that lyme is actually a "clinical" diagnosis based on your history and symptoms. It should be treated based on symptoms and not based on any test.
Posts: 4035 | From Mississippi | Registered: Jul 2008
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susank
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22150
posted
So Dr C calls the following bands significant:
18,23-25,28,30,31,34,39,58,66,93.
Igenex - the very place to which I have sent my blood two times calls these bands significant:
23-25,31,34,39,41,83-93.
I have no bands considered significant by Igenex. That seems like a rather strong message as negative. (not counting 41) (but have as IND 34 and 39)
Looks like Dr C would consider me positive - see bands my sig line. Quite different interpretations on the bands Igenex vs Dr C. And I was PCR neg per Igenex.
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
My understanding is that Dr. C. is going by his clinical experience which would probably be specific to the strains in his geographical location.
STARI causes a lyme like illness and is caused by a spirochete that is carried by the lone star tick. I believe he may see that strain in his patients quite a lot and it is also often found in Texas.
I do not think that particular strain is included in the WB so in his clinical experience, people that show the bands he listed will typically improve with treatment.
Lots of strains are not included in the WB since most labs only include one strain except IgeneX includes 2. I'm not sure if one of the strains that IgeneX includes is the one that causes STARI.
In any case, lyme is a clinical diagnosis. You can be completely negative on a WB and still have lyme in fact some of the sickest patients are negative because they can't mount a good immune response and thus don't make the antibodies that are needed for a positive test result.
Terry I'm not a doctor
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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your doc's whacko.![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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