bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
Okay...I know I"m a newbie here. Only have had symptoms for 4-6 months and have only been in treatment for 14 days.
Still..I don't feel any better and am having a bit of a whiny day. My biggest complaint is my ears. They fell so full, constantly pop when I move my jaw or swallow, and ring. Every so often one or the other will get quiet and ring VERY loudly for a min or so. This is always a concern.
For those of you who have beaten this or made significant progress, did your ears return to "normal".
I do worry about some of the drugs hurting my ears. I know some Abx can be ototoxic, particularly the "mycin" Abx.
Having a sad day. Will this ever end.
Feeling a bit better after starting to read "Cure Unknown." There are stories in there of people much worse off than me who have kicked this for good. Gives me some home.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Sorry you are having a sad day. I know that when the ears are off kilter, everything else just falls like dominos. However as you're only 14 days into treatment, you have a good chance at getting better - but it's a rocky road so hang onto your hat.
Have you gotten on GINGER CAPSULES, at the full therapeutic dose?
Lymph massage or VERY gentle bouncing - very gentle, not moving your feet from the floor but just pumping with a slight spring with your legs a bit can help increase lymph circulation. You could try a mini trampoline but don't buy one in case it doesn't work for you.
A tramp or rebounder can go either way: it could help tremendously or it could increase vertigo a lot (if there are structural problems with the ear canals). My guess is that it may help. But first, try some gentle bouncing-like movements as if you are playing with a child.
Warm (never hot) epson salts bath and gentle exercise also moves lymph.
It's hard to say for sure about ears. Your LLMD should be the best guild there and may refer you to a LL ear specialist.
A gluten-free diet, also a diet free of dairy, corn and maybe soy should help reduce phlegm that can cause fullness.
I know you've seen this before. However, since you mention ototoxicy, so that others can know how to offset that I'll post this thread again for them.
Remember, if one drug is too hard on your ears, there are other choices. Lyme, too, destroys ears in many ways. So it can be hard to know how to proceed. Often, though, liver support and a diet that reduces phlegm can make all the difference.
Also addressing gentle detox issues, especially around mercury and heavy metals. Dr. K's links are helpful. See below.
=====================
3/4 of the way down page one, there are lots of LIVER LINKS:
posted
My ears are a huge problem as well. Actually, it was just one ear. This was one of my first symptoms. Now that I've started antibiotics, both ears are horrible and I'm thinking it's zithromax. I know I have damage to my vestibular system from my left ear.
Keebler, do you think I should stop zithromax and in your opinion/research, what is the safest antibiotic for the ears? I am too afraid to take chances with ototoxic antibiotics. My ear has already been through enough.
Thank you!
Posts: 618 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2009
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WildCondor
Unregistered
posted
Zithromax causes ringing in the ears, no question. This is not a herx, it is the drug side effect. It does get better in time though. You might need to switch to Biaxin if its a big problem.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- jwall,
Yes, zith is a frequent problem for tender ears but some do just fine with it. For some, it's been the best. Minocycline and Biaxin also cause some people huge problems with ears and, yet, others say it's been key to their success.
As a rule, if a drug causes tinnitus at uncomfortable levels, always consider a different Rx if at all possible. This is what my ear doctors have taught me. Tinnitus can sometimes reverse itself - but there is never a guarantee. Just living with tinnitus can be torture. Some have ended their lives over that, even in the absence of any other health conditions.
To be clear, though, I have no medical training. My background is journalism and research from that perspective. I'm a fish out of water and way over my head here. What I've learned has been from some very good (and some very bad) ear experts and reading so as to try to save the quality of my own life from ear dysfunction.
I would never suggest that a patient not treat lyme as lyme, itself, can destroy the ears. I also can't suggest how someone may treat lyme. I'm certainly not a success. I simply can't take many meds - some due to ears but also I have a full body rash from some abx. I also have no LLMD to guide me.
Herbs have offered me only limited success but have been a huge support base. I'm gearing up to use Rife but that also raising tinnitus for me. (But, I have some middle ear bone stuff going on, too, and that can explain it. Adrenal exhaustion also explains a lot of problems ears).
I can suggest reading the thread and discussing abx choices or support methods with your LLMD. It's something each person has to figure out as there are just so many variables. Expert medical advice is always best. I am, in no way, a substitute for that. (And I sure wish I had that myself).
We can learn the signs. Ears being "horrible" can be from lyme, too. However, if tinnutis hits after a med, that's a sign that the med can be hurting ears. Liver support can help but it may or may not be enough and a med change may be best.
Tinnitus is the big clue that ototoxicity may be happening.
However, it could also be something else such as aspirin or a non-essential medicine or OTC product that, if stopped, would give more leeway to the essential meds.
In addition to aspirin, acetaminophen can be ototoxic. There are many other ways to lessen pain, so it makes sense to cut out the non-essential things that are know to be ototoxic.
It could be life style stuff. Ear protection is needed more than ever when on abx. A hairdryer can cause hearing loss and tinnitus and ear plugs should always be worn around hairdryers, vacuum, blenders, yard power tools, etc.
More about all that at the thread. There is no one exact correct way for everyone. There are many ways to make this work - or at least help. Good luck.
Be sure to go back up to the thread. New stuff is added now and then, too. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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bcb1200
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25745
posted
My tinnitus started 1 month after I started feeling unwell and has continued. Although it is much fainter now, but frequently get periods where 1 ear or the other will ring loudly for a few minutes and then feel full.
It sounds like its a damned if you do / don't situation. You need to treat the lyme which damages your ears with drugs that may hurt your ears. I can handle temporary tinnitus, but don't want it long term. And actually, tinnitus isn't as big of a deal to me as vestibular / balance damange. I DON"T want that. No way. Been there with Labyrinthitis and never want it again.
-------------------- Bite date ? 2/10 symptoms began 5/10 dx'd, after 3 months numerous test and doctors
IgM Igenex +/CDC + + 23/25, 30, 31, 34, 41, 83/93
Currently on:
Currently at around 95% +/- most days. Posts: 3134 | From Massachusetts | Registered: May 2010
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posted
I have more of the fullness/pressure. It started in the left ear over a year ago and couldn't figure out what it was from - also earache. This was accompanied with neck pain and headache, thus the atypical migraine diagnosis at the time. I also had a very slight feeling of leaning to the left and this has persisted.
Now it's both ears feeling very full. Is this a herx or just a side effect? I have very dull ringing in the right ear, but I only notice it in a very quiet room. Mainly, i have full ears,b ut I also have head pressure, so maybe these go hand in hand.
Keebler, what is the therapeutic dose of ginger and what to take for adrenal support?
bcb1200, I hear ya! Problems with the ears are the worst!!!
Thanks!
Posts: 618 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- jwall,
details are in the Tinnitus thread. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
I got screamingly loud ringing in my ears from zithromax. It took me a while to figure out that was what was causing it, and to see my LLMD and go off it. Supposedly it's reversible. But mine never got better.
I've actually had bad tinnitus and hearing loss for many, many years, so it wasn't a new problem. But this was a a new level of it.
And, I've had the same reaction from other meds, too, unfortunately. Be careful. You only get one pair! And hearing is pretty darned important.
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
I have written about my tinnis and earaches/fullness before here. For a while I was not sure whether the drugs (rifampin, bactrim DS) were causing it or lyme...
Now I know it is lyme and/or co-infections that are causing it. Mine goes through wax and wane cycle, but it is always there. It started in Jan this year. I think if I can get rid of the infections, my ears will go back to normal.
Posts: 99 | From NJ | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
My ears are one of my major issues. I could not find the Ginger part.....does that help with the ringing and fullness? Thanks so much.
-------------------- gatorade girl
"I still have Mt.Everest to climb, but I have traveled across the world and arrived at the mountain". Posts: 633 | From baltimore | Registered: Mar 2010
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- First, talk to your LLMD. Tinnitus has a many causes. You may be referred to a specialist.
Be sure to look at everything you take against the ototoxic links in the tinnitus thread. Non-essential stuff that may trigger tinnitus may be able to be replaced by something else.
Even certain foods can trigger it. See the ATA link.
Also look at your ear "hygiene" - also addressed in that thread.
GINGER helps with vertigo, nausea and inflammation. It seems to help the liver to a certain extent but I would not rely on it for the sole liver support. There are many liver links in that thread, too.
In my experience, GINGER has not directly affected the ringing - but it helps tremendously with various kinds of vertigo and helps relieve pressure in my ears. It may reduce tinnitus for some, however.
VINPOCETINE may be better for tinnitus. Gingko B. is said to be but, for me, it intensifies tinnitus (as do most things that are even mildly stimulating in nature).
Andrographis has helped me the most with my ears. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks so much. I have severe nausea and sometimes vomiting. I am going to try the Ginger.
-------------------- gatorade girl
"I still have Mt.Everest to climb, but I have traveled across the world and arrived at the mountain". Posts: 633 | From baltimore | Registered: Mar 2010
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Pinelady
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18524
posted
I was amazed at how much drops of sweet oil helped mine. It is very soothing. And you can get it at wal mt.
-------------------- Suspected Lyme 07 Test neg One band migrating in IgG region unable to identify.Igenex Jan.09IFA titer 1:40 IND IgM neg pos 31 +++ 34 IND 39 IND 41 IND 83-93 + DX:Neuroborreliosis Posts: 5850 | From Kentucky | Registered: Dec 2008
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RZR
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20953
posted
Ear fullness is also a major problem for me. Mine started about 10 months after lyme & co.
I am currently on Biaxin, Mepron, and plaquenil, but I had ear problems even before Biaxin. Since Zith or Biaxin needs to be used with Mepron, don't have much choice there.
I think my problems are related to lyme & co. I tested positive for babesia and ehrlichia.
-------------------- Tick bite May 2009 Diagnosed June 2009 Posts: 2329 | From SouthEast | Registered: Jun 2009
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Remember to Smile
Unregistered
posted
I've been noticing loud ringing in both ears for several days now.
I've had other tinnitus problems, hyperaccusis, and plenty of "ear fullness" (that has been fluid without infection) over years. Lots of sinus problems that are often sinusitis.
But the ringing in my ears the past few days is high-pitched and seemingly unending.
Azithromycin side effect? I've been on it two weeks now.
Was doing alright on doxy (improved cognition), but the addition of Mepron & azithromycin brought out a yeast infection. I'm very exhausted, and figured Babesia duncani is dragging me down most. Then there's my BLO...
The last thing any of us need is new body damage from Rx meds! *heavy sigh*
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Azithromycin side effect?
Could be. The "high-pitched and seemingly unending" nature is certainly of concern. Zith can cause hearing loss. But, so can lyme or other infections.
High pitch tinnitus is a sign of hearing damage. So, you should get a doctor's advice about this.
Of course, it's a Friday afternoon and near the end of the day in your time zone but, after considering other variables, you might put a call into your LLMD to see if you could stop the zith for a few days.
Could also indicate total toxic load is too much and you need more liver support, including LOTS of leafy greens, etc. - or your magnesium is down - or adrenals are too stressed.
There are many variables. Do you use in-the-ear pods to listen to music? A Cell Phone? If so, avoid both. See the ATA site and be sure to read posts here for what else you can do: ---------------
Topic: TINNITUS: Ringing Between The Ears; Vestibular, Balance, Hearing with compiled links - including HYPERACUSIS -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
I developed tinnitus in my L ear back in 2007. It came on suddenly and has never gone away. It's louder before a migraine or when in a flare of sorts with inflammation or flu-like symptoms. Hearing in L ear went down first; R ear was fine. A year later when checked, L ear had come back some but R ear had gone down. The next year, both were down with little change ... Last year, my frustration with the ENT who had NO answers and tried to blame it on "age," caused me to blurt out, "For all I know, I could have Lyme." (Don't even know why I said that - desperation and reading around?). He said, "You could have! You could have!" Then he high-tailed it out of the room, just left me sitting there. (I never knew why until after I read "Cure Unknown.") This was the reason I finally found an LLMD.
A former ENT I saw told me that anything that affected the gut (watch diet!) would effect the ears ... I never forgot that, so if my tinnitus is extra loud, I try to go back and determine if it was something I ate. Hot spices seem to be one possible trigger. Flagyl exacerbated it, too.
Once in a while, the tinnitus becomes very soft for a short time. It is usually before or during a rain storm. (Pressure changes?)
I do know that food allergies can manifest with neurological symptoms. Also, the stuffed ears/fullness in ears/ear blockage suggests some type of allergy (I get those every Spring.) There is a whole list of viruses that can cause hearing loss as well (and presumably tinnitus, which is frequently a sign of HL).
Posts: 277 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2010
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Many times a particular generic drug is manufactured under several trade names. The trade names mentioned in this article were selected randomly by the author. The inclusion of a particular trade name and the exclusion of another should not be interpreted as prejudicial either for one nor against the other.
ANTIBIOTICS
Aminoglycosides 1,2 amikacin (Amakin), gentamycin (Garamycin), kanamycin (Kantrex), neomycin, streptomycin, tobramycin (Nebcin) amphotericin B 2 capreomycin (Capestat) 1 chloramphenicol (Chloromycetin) 2 erythromycin 1 (EES, E-mycin, Ilosone, Eryc, Pediazole, Biaxin, Zithromax), (Usually ototoxic when given in intravenous doses of 2-4 grams per 24 hours, especially if there is underlying kidney failure), minocycline (Minocin) 1,2 (Similar to erythromycin), polymyxine B 1,2 sulfonamides (Septra, Bactrim) 2 vancomycin (Vancocin) 1,2.
Found in many over-the- counter antibiotic ointments, Neomycin is the drug that is most toxic to the structure involved in hearing, the cochlea, so it is recommended for external use only. But even this topical therapy has resulted in hearing loss when large areas were treated which allowed for large amounts of the drug to be absorbed into the body. Hearing loss caused by Aminoglycosides is usually permanent. Of particular interest is that topical ear drop medications containing gentamycin or neomycin do not appear to be ototoxic in humans unless the tympanic membrane (eardrum) is perforated. When a solution of an aminoglycoside antibiotic is used on the skin together with an aminoglycoside antibiotic used intravenously, there is a an increased risk of the ototoxic effect, especially if the solution is used on a wound that is open or raw, or if the patient has underlying kidney damage.
Vancomycin is similar to aminoglycosides in that it may be ototoxic when used intravenously for life-threatening infections. To further exaggerate the problem is the fact that aminoglycosides and vancomycin are often used together intravenously when treating life-threatening infections.
ANESTHETICS
lidocaine (Novocain) 2
ANTIMALARIALS (QUININE)
chloroquine phosphate (Aralen) 1,2 hydroxychloroquine (Plaquinil) 1,2 quinacrine hydrochloride (Atabrine) 1 quinine sulfate (Quinam) 1. (The ototoxic effects are very similar to those of aspirin).
cyclohexane 2 dichloromethane 2 hexane (gasoline) 2 lindane (Kwell) 2 methyl-chloride 2 methyl-n-butyl-ketone 2 perchlor-ethylene 2 Styrene 2 tetrachlor-ethane 2 toluol 2 trichloroethylene 2 Ironically, several of the drugs found to cause tinnitus, are also used to treat tinnitus (e.g., amitryptiline, benzodia- zepine class, carbamazapine, furosemide, lidocaine, prednisone).
Dr. Orin Kaufman is the Chair of the NYSA H
Posts: 277 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Apr 2010
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posted
Thanks, Keebler & Marrit. I'm off the azith for a week now, but tinnitus remains. I've noticed my hearing has decreased overall, because i no longer hear the phone ring when i'm in the shower or in my yard.
I will be careful not to take anymore ototoxic drugs!
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