heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
hi everyone,
how can you tell the difference between addison's disease (adrenal failure) and third-stage adrenal exhaustion? anyone know? i'm getting a saliva cortisol test as soon as i can access the necessary funds.. i know my adrenals are severely screwed up; in fact i think they may be my biggest problem after years of chronic infection. i'm just not sure how serious the issue is and if i need to supplement with something like cortef.
also, has anyone tried isocort? my LLND recommended i start taking it.
ukcarry
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 18147
posted
Blood tests would show Addison's and the graph result of your saliva test would be rock bottom and totally flat. There is a comment by the labs if the saliva test is a cause for concern. Addison's would be emergency levels.
My saliva tests showed erratic cortisol production, with 2 of the 4 times being extremely low. Because my 8am one was acceptable, blood tests [always done early am] would not have indicated the general low levels.
My doctor did agree to put me on low dose Cortef for a limited period despite not being sure about saliva tests. I also took some adrenal friendly supplements [Iwas already taking some] for example, added pantethine, later high-dose B% pantothenic acid.
I think the Cortef may have helped in a difficult time when I switched from hypothyroid to hyperthyroid, as there is a relationship between the thyroid and adrenals [you need enough adrenal activity to support thyroid function].
After 6 months I weaned off Cortef at the instigation of an endocrinologist, but then many of them see adrenal function in black and white: either it's OK or you have Addison's; nothing in between.
By the way, when I got my saliva results, I checked them against what I read on www.stopthethyroidmadness on the 7 stages of adrenal exhaustion to try to see how far down the line I was [pretty far!]. I'm rather surprised that your LLMD suggested Isocort without any tests at all.
heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks for the response. i have a very positive hippus test (when a light is shined on your pupil and the pupil is supposed to stay constricted - mine was all over the place, which indicates significant adrenal exhaustion) so my LLND is confident my adrenals are a mess.
good to know that addison's is easily diagnosable.
posted
I got diagnosed with Addison's Disease this past January. Your cortisol would be VERY low and if your adrenals are to blame (as opposed to your pituitary gland) your ACTH would be through the roof more than likely. ACTH is the hormone that your pituitary gland makes in order to stimulate your adrenals to produce cortisol.
In someone with Addison's, it is almost like beating a dead horse, and your adrenals are the horse with the pituitary beating them with ACTH trying to get them to produce normal cortisol levels. The adrenals however, can not, so ACTH remains high and cortisol low. High ACTH often causes a bronzing/tanning effect of the skin without any sun exposure necessary.
The gold standard test is the ACTH stimulation test in which your hormone levels are measured early in the morning, you are then given an injection of ACTH, and your hormone levels are taken in a half hour and an hour. If your cortisol levels fail to respond adequately, more than likely you have Primary Addison's.
It would also be very common to have very low blood sodium levels (mine were around 123 at the worst), high potassium (sodium and potassium are controlled by aldosterone, a hormone produced by adrenals to help regulate blood pressure), GI pain and sickness, dizziness, anxiety, mental disturbances, hypotension, low blood sugar. I had all of these in spades. You may end up positive for adrenal autoimmune antibodies. It is also possible to have secondary Addison's which is when the pituitary is what is failing to function (often due to a tumor) by not producing any ACTH or not enough, therefore your adrenals are not getting the message to make cortisol. With this form of Addison's it is much less likely to have any sodium or potassium issues though since usually cortisol is the only hormone greatly affected.
Some of these symptoms can also occur with Lyme so it can be tricky telling the difference.
Posts: 594 | From NJ/NY | Registered: Jun 2006
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- In addition to great detail in posts above:
This book is specific to lyme and other chronic stealth infections. The author discusses the endocrine connection and effects of STRESS on a person with such infections. You can read customer reviews and look inside the book at this link to its page at Amazon.
The Potbelly Syndrome: How Common Germs Cause Obesity, Diabetes, And Heart Disease (Paperback) - 2005
by Russell Farris and Per Marin, MD, PhD
==================
Remember that lyme really messes up the HPA axis (Hypothalamus/pituitary/adrenal network). The pituitary has much to do with weight/growth. Mess up any part of the endocrine system and other parts suffer, too.
Curcumin Prevents Some Stress-Related Changes (By CP Staff)
Excerpts:
A recently published study investigated the effects of curcumin, a constituent of the botanical turmeric, on changes in cognition and memory caused by stress. . . .
. . . In this new study, researchers investigated the effect of curcumin supplementation on stress-induced learning defects in mice. . . .
. . . In addition, curcumin reversed the stress-induced increase in the levels of serum corticosterone, the primary hormone secreted during the stress response. . . .
. . . The researchers concluded, ``Thus, curcumin may be an effective therapeutic for learning and memory disturbances as was seen within these stress models, and
its neuroprotective effect was mediated in part by normalizing the corticosterone response, resulting in down-regulating of the phosphorylated calcium/calmodulin kinase II and glutamate receptor levels.''
The Potbelly Syndrome: How Common Germs Cause Obesity, Diabetes, And Heart Disease (Paperback) - 2005
by Russell Farris (Author), Per Marin (Author)
Much about stress reactions here. - you can read customer reviews at the link. Attention is given to lyme and other chronic stealth infections however, it does not go into details about solutions.
===========================
This is not a lyme book.
This book has only one reference to lyme (in the historical use of sarsarparilla for another spirochetal infection). However, it is a vital first book to read - or a reference - for anyone interested in understanding nutritional methods.
Search for Ashwagandha; Cordyceps; Siberian Ginseng in this book:
Graciously, much of this book is on line. It can also be purchased from this site or through Amazon where you can look inside the book and see many customer reviews.
The Rhodiola Revolution byt Richard P. Brown, MD and Patricia L. Gerbarg, MD, et.al.
See this at Amazon.
======================
If help beyond supplements is needed, sometimes LLMDs will prescribe LOW DOSE CORTEF (Hydrocortisone).
While steroids are dangerous with lyme, the low-dose Cortef is more like the body should be producing, but can't and lyme patients who need it generally do very well with it. A few may not be able to handle it.
Usually, the adrenal supplements are employed first.
For many good past LymeNet Threads, you can search here: -------------------------------
Search both terms, "Hydrocortisone" & and also "Cortef" -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
This was my situtation. I spent 15 years treating for adrenal exhaustion before I was diagnosed with Lyme. At one point, I felt very close to developing Addison's.
I did fine on Isocort. It's whole adrenal, with all the hormones, as opposed to Cortef, which is just cortisol. I could not tolerate Cortef. Isocort can be stimulating. Don't take it after 2:00 pm.
Consider reading Adrenal Fatigue, The 21st Century Stress Syndrome, by James L. Wilson, ND,DC, PhD and please read From Fatigued to Fantastic, 3rd Edition, by Jacob Teitelbaum, MD.
Before I began antibiotics for Lyme, I started taking D-ribose (as recommended in FFTF) to reset my HPA axis. You have to take Corvalen brand, 5 grams 3x/day for 30 days to see the effects. I also took Phosphatidylserine (any high quality brand is fine) 200 mg am and 200 mg bedtime, also to reset the HPA axis.
This combination completely healed my adrenals. I am not kidding. After 15 years of trying everything, this finally did it. I was blown away.
I went from sleeping 2-5 hours/night with no deep sleep, to a regular 8-9 hours/night of refreshing sleep. No daytime fatigue. No late afternoon crash. Improved blood pressure. Improved blood sugar handling. It was a miracle.
We know Lyme consumes our Magnesium and Vitamin D. It may also consume our D-ribose, which is needed by the hypothalamus to control our hormones. It is not glucose. It will not affect your blood sugar.
I am still taking my D-ribose, in year three of Lyme treatment. If I go off it for any period of time, my insomnia returns.
You can check out the FFTF website at www.endfatigue.com. Dr. T is a big CFS guy. He does mention Lyme and stealth pathogens in his book, but does not emphasize them enough as a causative factor in CFS. That said, his information about hormones and supplements is excellent.
You must manage your blood sugar to heal your adrenals. What is your diet? Mine was, and continues to be, very low carb.
I also stir a little sea salt into my water. We need sodium.
Sorry if this is TMI. I've been where you are and recovered. I feel the HPA axis is crazy important in Lyme.
I'm also in Seattle, and know the various LLNDs. PM me if you want to.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- BoxerMom,
There is no such thing as TMI with adrenal details.
Thanks so much for detailed information. That REALLY helps me. I have Corvalen but was trying to really stretch it out to save money. I see that is not the best plan. I've also tried to skip it altogether and it seems that is not a good idea for me, either.
Thanks again for helping to fill in some of the blanks. Your post is a definite "copy, paste, print - and insert" into our adrenal books.
Still, the reality is that Corvalen is VERY Expensive, considering how much is consumed each day. Would the Source Naturals' brand not be as good?
Is there a prescription equivalent that may be covered by insurance plans?
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Hey, I can collect information and have taken most everything at one time or other in the past. However, these days, can't afford to take most of what I suggest. Thanks, too, I love learning but would sure love to learn other things.
Any FOODS that naturally contain d-Ribose? My entire budget is about $90. a month for all health costs. That allows me my much-needed andrographis plus one supplement and postage.
Makes it rather tricky so I try to get what I can from food.
Are there no other brands besides Corvalen? I understand no fillers are desired but I would hope some other brand would also be top notch. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
sparkle7 did the legwork on this topic:
"Just an FYI.. I did some digging. The D-Ribose IS the product, being sold with brand name Corvalen. I made some calls because I found so many others for sale as "D-Ribose" and wanted to know the difference, if any. The difference is this..
The original "Corvalen" is produced and sold by Valen Labs/BioEnergy, which is 100% D-Ribose. Some other companies have purchased the product in bulk, and repackaged it. Some have added fillers/substitutes/etc so the product is not 100% D-Ribose.
One I found that IS 100% D-Ribose is being sold by a company called Nutrabio.Com I just ordered a 500 gram jar from them after verifying with Valen Labs that they do purchase from them and with Nutrabio that it does not have any additives, it is 100% pure D-Ribose as purchased from Valen Labs, just repackaged.
The 500 gram jar is 100 servings and costs $49.97 but they have a coupon for 10% off that you can use and get it for $44!! You enter the promo code 77MJC at the checkout. It's worth it since it is the same as the product "Corvalen" and costs a lot less for the bigger jar.
The Corvalen jar is 56 servings and costs an average of $43. Hope this helps! Oh and I figured out why some of the capsules of it are so cheap. You have to take at least 6 of them to equal one dose of the powder!"
posted
The product my LLMD gives me for adrenal fatigue is Drenatrophin PMG by Standard Process. It's a proprietary blend of bovine adrenal PMG extract and magnesium citrate that also contains a little calcium.
D-ribose sounded familiar so I hunted through past supplements and found a powder of Peak ATP (adenosine Triphosphate) with a little D-Ribose. I'm wondering if these two products are redundant or incompatible in any way, and if D-Ribose on its own would be better.
Posts: 212 | From San Francisco Bay Area, California | Registered: Aug 2010
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heiwalove
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6467
posted
thanks so much for all the great info, everyone. i really appreciate it.
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Now Foods also sells the Valen pure d-Ribose for less.
Be sure when you take it that you take it with food. It can cause significant low blood sugar if taken on an empty stomach. It doesn't always happen, but can be bad if it does.
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Keebler,
I know that someone suggested before that you start consulting with people for money, as you have so much to offer.
I highly recommend that you consider it! If you did---even if you did it on a small scale, then you could afford more of what you need to get well.
If I could, I would contribute to the Keebler supplement/herb/treatment fund!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
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Tracy9
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 7521
posted
On www.lymefriends.com we have a group called Med/Supplement share where you can request supplements you need and post extras you are willing to mail someone because you no longer need them.
13 years Lyme & Co.; Small Fiber Neuropathy; Myasthenia Gravis, Adrenal Insufficiency. On chemo for 2 1/2 years as experimental treatment for MG. Posts: 4480 | From Northeastern Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2005
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
Rumigirl - I've been taking D-ribose on an empty stomach for years. I called Dr. Teitelbaum's website for info on blood sugar regulation before I started it, because I have severe glucose intolerance.
They assured me that it does not act like glucose and has no effect on blood sugar. I wasn't sure I believed them, but after using it consistently at high doses for years, I can confirm that it does not affect blood sugar.
I can't eat a cracker, but I can take D-ribose by the tub!
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