posted
About a week ago I posted a thread asking why the chelation has not resulted a desirable outcome to remove heavy metals...
Now, I got a chance to look at the actual report, and compared the most recent one (at the end of September) to the pre-treatment one back in March, and it's upsetting to see what close to $5000 IV chelation has done...
All metals across the board have actually gone up, not down. I mean literarily 100% of all the metals tested have gone up. The ones that were above the acceptable range as well as th eones that are within the range. For instance, lead level has gone from 5.4 to 6.8 and gadolinlium gone from 16.509 to 37.370. Platinum gone from 0.019 to 0.101. and so on...Also sulfur has gone from 723 to 1,467 with range of 367-1,328. These are from Genova Diagnostics for urine.
These are not the only ones that are the problems. I am only picking those out as example.
Is the test totally inaccurate, or she is getting much sicker, or what?
I am completely lost and upset...
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Are these the levels in a sample of post provocation agent urine? If so, it would appear that more metals are in the urine than before, which may not be a reflection of body burden but of provocation agent effectiveness, which may change as you do multiple things to try to pull metals out.
Posts: 442 | From Biddeford, ME | Registered: Nov 2007
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
Yes, Ditto DoctorLud. My doctor told me it's not uncommon for more metals to show up on the testing after doing a lot of chelation. It simply means you need more. Try DMSA prescription
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Yes, from what I am reading, after chelation the amount of metals in the urine will be much higher. Here is an exerpt from one website on the subject:
"Following a single dose of the mercury chelators DMPS or DMSA (but not EDTA), urine mercury will increase enormously in healthy subjects without toxicity, up to 4,000 percent even if the person tested has relatively low and nontoxic amounts of mercury in the body. If a mercury chelator is given before collection, test results should therefore be interpreted using reference ranges derived in that same laboratory, using the same instruments, from a large number of people, and following the same protocol of provocative chelation for urine collection. Mercury chelators will always cause a great increase of mercury in the urine, regardless of the amount in the body. The safe, nontoxic threshold will always be much higher after a chelator."
posted
Yes, it is provocation urine test, both times. So we are really comparing an apple to another apple here.
So what you are saying that is it is normal for the one to have chelation for a while, and the provocation urine test will show higher heavy metals that before the chelation, and it is indicative that a continuation of chelation is needed?
And when one can stop chelating?
TF - I will read up the whole article and see if I can understand more. I am very confused.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Did she ever have an unprovoked blood or urine test? I hope so.
Take a look at this quote:
"I recommend testing on whole blood, in preference to urine or serum tests. I find blood testing is to be a more accurate way to detect assess heavy metal toxicity of all types. Hair testing for methyl mercury can also be reliable. .... When we occasionally do test urine, we use random unprovoked urine specimens and measure mercury and other elements relative to urine creatinine. That method cancels out errors caused by state of hydration and variable fluid intake, which varies the concentration solutes in urine. We no longer provoke excretion with a chelator before collecting urine for testing because it causes large false elevations. "
See especially the last sentence. Evidently, chelation clinics like to only do provoked tests so that they can scare people into unnecessary chelation. Also, they like the lab to list the normal range for metals for UNprovoked urine testing. That makes everyone's levels look high (comparing an apple to an orange). This scam is talked about on many Internet pages.
I hope that is not what happened to you.
Since even one chelation treatment causes your metal levels to go very high, what is the sense in looking at such results? Let's look at what the levels are BEFORE any chelation and compare that to the normal ranges of metals in the unchelated population.
Please tell us more of what happened in the beginning.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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posted
TF - Oh no, she has the provoked urine tests both times. They gave her IV to provoke the heavy metals to the urine and asked her to collect the samples for the next 6 hours, and average the sample for the test.
From what you said, it osunds like we need to do a bit more research on this subject. It is so confusing that some literatures insist that non-provoked tests are meaningless because the heavy metals typically hide inside the cells, not free floating in the blood stream. Never really know what to believe...
So if it is not the heavy metal problem, what's her problem then? She has not responded to any abx so far...
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Now I looked at the file and did see that she had done hair test before chelation and all seem to be fine. But they did not order the same test after chelation.
Maybe she didn't have the heavy metal issue, after all.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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posted
Thank you, Annelet. These links are great. I have read some before but with all of them is wonderful.
TF - her doctor actually had given her oral glutathione as a necessary supplement during our first visit, with precription DMSA and other binding agents (such as MedCaps). He also did not object her to have IV glutathione later when she started that "treatment". My understanding is that glutathione would act to push the metals out of cells, therefore, to bind with DMSA as a complete circle of chelation. But that's my layman's term in my understanding.
Posts: 822 | From midwest | Registered: Apr 2009
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TF
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 14183
posted
Very, very glad to hear she is on DMSA with lyme doctor. I did not know that.
You can ask him to explain the rise in metal numbers when you see him and get his advice on how to proceed.
Posts: 9931 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
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