posted
A herx feels different for different people. For me it is a HUGE exageration of the symptoms I normally deal with most of the time. Sometimes I get new symptoms that I haven't had or symptoms that have gone might pop up during a herx.
I also get very flu'ish feeling with sweats, then chills, sweats then chills
Posts: 574 | From Out there somewhere | Registered: Jul 2010
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
It feels like your own typical symptoms, except worse than usual. About 25% worse on average, which can be a lot the less functional and sicker you are.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
posted
This is awful. How long does it last?
Posts: 908 | From Albany | Registered: Nov 2008
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METALLlC BLUE
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 6628
posted
It usually lasts about 1 week on average, but it peaks on a certain day, so if you feel really bad just take it easy and drink plenty of fresh water. Detox helps. 1 tsp x 2 each day of baking soda (without aluminum) is usually easy to get. Mixed with water that can reduce the bad feeling.
-------------------- I am not a physician, so do your own research to confirm any ideas given and then speak with a health care provider you trust.
It can be new symptoms or an intensification of "old" symptoms.
Hope it lets up soon. Do what you can to detox. How about some lemon water?
Tri-Salts may work too .. or an antihistamine.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
------------- "Herx 101" (my attempt at making sense of it) -------------
Lyme is caused by the gram-negative bacteria, BORRELIA b. - that is what is known as a SPIROCHETE, a cork-screw shaped bacteria that can sort of spring where ever it wants, not needed the blood stream for transport.
Spirochetes are particularly rough bacteria and they can take many forms to evade detection and resist treatment.
When spirochetes get irritated they emit toxins. To begin with, Borrelia b. is a very toxic infection. But irritate it and it spews forth even more toxic junk into our bodies.
So, our bodies are loaded with toxins and our liver and kidneys are overwhelmed. One reason why LIVER SUPPORT is vital to treatment.
To spirochetes, irritation to them can be nearly anything. It can be strong medicine, too much activity, too much heat, too much noise or light, etc.
That is why lyme patients feel so awful so much of the time. Even a little vibration will irritate spirochetes. Too much heat, too much movement.
Still the herxheimer reaction - from "chemical assault" (even if from a strong herb) - is very real. ---------------
The Herxheimer reaction (also known as Jarisch-Herxheimer or Herx) occurs when large quantities of toxins are released into the body as bacteria (typically Spirochetal bacteria) die, due to antibiotic treatment or rapid detoxification.
Typically the death of these bacteria and the associated release of endotoxins occurs faster than the body can remove the toxins via the natural detoxification process performed by the kidneys and liver.
It is manifested by fever, chills, headache, myalgia (muscle pain), and exacerbation of skin lesions.
� Duration in syphilis is normally only a few hours but �� can be much longer, up to months or years, for other diseases, especially Lyme Disease. ��
� The intensity of the reaction reflects the intensity of inflammation present.
� The Herxheimer reaction has shown an increase in inflammatory cytokines during the period of exacerbation, including tumor necrosis factor alpha, interleukin-6 and interleukin-8.[1][2]
The reaction is also seen in other diseases, such as borreliosis (Lyme disease[3][4] and tick-borne relapsing fever[5]), bartonellosis, brucellosis, typhoid fever, Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, and trichinellosis, Q fever, and cat scratch disease.[6][7]
Especially note herxheimer abtracts with Leptospirosis, another spirochetal infection.
=======================
A "herx" can also be connected to liver stress, in general. But it may not always be, technically, a herx.
Often, we call just feeling horribly icky a herx. Lyme - and lyme treatment - can be a rough ride. Not all of that is a herx and sometimes the term is overused but, in the end, liver support often helps make treatment easier and safer.
If the liver is overwhelmed, and then asked to outperform - handling too many chemicals or faced with too much exercise - it can't process out the toxins and there is a backwash, so to speak. Technically, that may not be called a herx (or it may be) but it's a toxic reaction, all the same.
More specifically, a "herx" can also be connected to porphyria, just one kind of liver stress resulting in a toxic level of elevated porphyrins. There are at least eleven kinds. More about how at least one kind is seen frequently with lyme patients:
It's very important to have this book as a reference tool for self-care and support measures. It answers so many questions in detail that is impossible here on the forum.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- More hints for how to manage inflammation and pain from a herx from these two threads, too.
Turmeric and it's stronger extract, Curcumin, are discussed in the last thread. You might want to start by looking at that.
As many sleep and pain meds are toxic and hard on the liver and kidneys (and that adds to the overall toxic load, thereby making a herx worse), here are some suggestions for sleep support that can safely nourish & calm the body: ---------------
[ 11-27-2010, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You may wonder why I included two works focused on autism. the Lyme-Autism Connection is important and, while those works may have been written for a particular Lyme-Autism Conference, they are applicable to all lyme patients. And, it seems that even adults who have lyme have to work through some degree of the autism spectrum of disorders.
You may also have noticed the comparison of lyme (Borrelia b) to Syphilis in the Wiki "herx" definition. Both are "stealth" infections of gram-negative "spirochete" bacteria.
There are some similarities but also some huge differences. Lyme is much more complex. Syphilis has just 23 genes; Borrelia has at least 132 functioning genes (as per http://www.holtorfmed.com/lyme-disease.html ).
Both Syphilis and Lyme are very toxic infections that can have totally different manifestations from one person to the next.
Both are "stealth" pathogens in they are hard to detect, can hide and change shape, and both have been called the the "great imposter" or "immitator" as symptoms can be mistaken for many other conditions.
The herx mechanism is the same, spirochete emit more toxins when threatened and dying - and why the die off, the toxins can overwhelm the detox organs, causing a herx. What helps reduce a herx in Syphilis can also help reduce a herx for Borrelia. -
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