posted
I really want to keep this out of a controversial discussion about pro-life/pro-choice.
My understanding about Mifepristone is that it's a steroid. I took it about five years ago. Then about three months later my body sort of fell apart. I had pain in my upper body joints, elbow, shoulder, torn rotator cuff, tingling, thoracic outlet syndrome, etc, etc, etc. I ended visiting 10 doctors. Diagnosis: all of the above plus possible Fibromyalgia.
I've always noted that my symptoms started soon after that but I had always attributed to the emotional and spiritual effects, not the steroid. This possible connection just recently occurred to me and I'm curious about what others think (please keep it nice).
I was clinically diagnosed with Lyme about 6 months ago by my son's LLMD's PA. I'm still not sure if I believe it.
Posts: 43 | From Southeastern US | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
I read over the information page on it. It does have a lot of possible side effects, so obviously, it's tough on the body. Plus the stress of whatever else you were going through emotionally. Lyme symptoms can be worsened by both physical and emotional stress, so what your immune system maybe could have handled before, it could no longer handle.
Also, how long did you bleed? Could you have low iron/ferritin?
Did you have a Western Blot? You very well could have Lyme and it very well could have become worse after such a stress to your body.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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I'm now recalling that I actually didn't take Mifepristone.
My memory about the "morning after/Plan B pill" and the abortion pill were mixed up. They're two different things. Mifepristone is the abortion pill and it's a big dose of a steroid. The morning after pill (an ECP, "Plan B") are much smaller doses of this.
I took the pregnancy prevention pill, not the abortion pill which is a big dose of steroids.
However, the question is still pertinent because I am actually thinking of taking the abortion pill (Mifepristone) now.
First of all, I haven't had a Western Blot.
My biggest question at the moment isn't really about whether I have Lyme or not. I'm going to assume I have it because I'd rather be conservative about it right now.
My question is - I know that steroids aren't good for people with Lyme. But is that ALL steroids or is it just the steroids that are categorized as anti-pain/anti-inflammatory?
I did some research and found out (copied from Wiki) there are many types of steroids but the ones used medically fall into three categories:
* Sex steroids are a subset of sex hormones that produce sex differences or support reproduction. They include androgens, estrogens, and progestagens.
* Corticosteroids include glucocorticoids and mineralocorticoids. Glucocorticoids regulate many aspects of metabolism and immune function, whereas mineralocorticoids help maintain blood volume and control renal excretion of electrolytes. Most medical 'steroid' drugs are corticosteroids.
* Anabolic steroids are a class of steroids that interact with androgen receptors to increase muscle and bone synthesis. There are natural and synthetic anabolic steroids. In popular language, the word "steroids" usually refers to anabolic steroids.
Okay, so I understand the second category of steroids aren't good for people with Lyme because it messes with the immune system. But what about the first category - sex steroids?
Mifepristone is an antiprogestational steroid and I'm thinking of taking it. An extraction abortion seems much more stressful to me (and I know stress isn't good for Lyme either).
People who are feeling on fire because of this thread, thank you for staying kind and away for now.
Posts: 43 | From Southeastern US | Registered: Jul 2009
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MichaelTampa
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 24868
posted
Good question, perhaps the different category matters. I have always heard that steroids suppress immune, but that could easily be people speaking of one type.
I don't know the answer to your question. If nobody here knows, perhaps a medical text or something like that could help, or if all else fails try asking a doctor you trust to research it for you. Got to be good for something every now and then!
Regarding the emotional aspects of things and lyme, absolutely a significant emotional event can really help a lyme infection grow out of control. It happened to me with a near-drowning that caused PTSD. I have read that PTSD can cause the nitric oxide - peroxynitrite cycle to go out of control, and some recommend oxygen therapy to help that. I know that it helped me.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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posted
I have found that starting ANY new medication can cause Lyme to flare. Over the years, I experienced the following after starting a new medicine:
immipramine - Raynaud's phenomenon Lipitor - restless legs syndrome Lyrica - stiffening of hands Celebrex - caused Lyme to migrate to my shoulder Rrozac - itching
The symptoms were all Lyme symptoms, but I didn't realize it at the time.
Any stress, physical or emotional, can do the same thing. When I was in the process of putting my mother in a nursing home, I developed swallowing problems.
Good chance the stress of what you were experiencing plus starting a new drug caused a dormant Lyme infection to become active. I myself have experienced worsening of symptoms when taking DHEA, a precursor to the sex hormones.
-------------------- Sick since at least age 6, now 67. Decades of misdiagnosis. Numerous arthritic, neuro, psych, vision, cardiac symptoms. Been treating for 7 years, incl 8 mos on IV. Bart was missed so now treating that. Posts: 765 | From nw ct | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Thanks all! For those of you are checking this out and skimming - PLEASE read my second post. It's the third post from the top. It explains the issue I'm having much better!
I need to make a decision of which abortion route to take.
Posts: 43 | From Southeastern US | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Either abortion route would probably be harder on your body than pregnancy. If you're concerned the baby would be born ill, remember, they can treat you while you're pregnant to reduce that risk. All of mine were born healthy even though I had Lyme and I wasn't in treatment during pregnancy.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
Just wanted to say I support you in your decision. I'm in a place right now where I can't even begin to think about having a baby, thanks to Lyme. Partly because I'm being slammed with medical bills I have no idea how to pay, but also because my body couldn't handle a pregnancy right now, especially because of cardiac complications. I'm sure your situation is very similar. Abortion seems like the most responsible option. From everything I've read about abortion, it sounds like the risks are minimal compared to the risks of pregnancy & childbirth. And it won't affect your ability to have children later when and if you're ready.
-------------------- Currently infected with Lyme, Babesia, Ehrlichiosis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Mycoplasma, & Q-fever.
10 months into treatment, currently on Bicillin, Rocephin, Doxy, Biaxin, and Mepron. Posts: 87 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2010
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1. Chemically Induced Abortion (Taking the Abortion Pill, which is a Sex Steroid called Mifepristone)
2. Vacuum Extraction Abortion
They both have their cons. But which of these two will be easier for someone with Lyme to deal with?
I'm not having a baby right now. I'm a single mom, supposedly have Lyme (and my son does for sure), almost 40, major huge financial issues right now.
So anyway...the question is not whether or not to have an abortion. The question is which type of abortion will be gentler on a woman with Lyme?
Posts: 43 | From Southeastern US | Registered: Jul 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Consult with your LLMD about this. Hopefully, you are being treated for lyme right now and have a good LLMD who can guide you with the important considerations.
If you are being treated for lyme, a one time dose of steroid should be manageable. But, it is vital to have an ILADS-educated LLMD to be sure the lyme is managed adequately for whatever decision you make.
Good luck. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Some detail about steroids and the importance of pre-treatment and treatment for lyme all through any steroid use, but also how some can stay in the body for up to six months. You might want to research the kind in question but, again, it's best to discuss with your LLMD. ----------
Diagnostic Hints and Treatment Guidelines for Lyme and Other Tick Borne Illnesses
16th edition, Copyright October, 2008
Joseph J. Burrascano
Excerpts:
P. 4:
. . . More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressant medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressive medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intraarticular steroids. . . .
From page 12:
. . . More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants. . . .
Page 20:
. . . and absolutely no immunosuppressants, even local doses of steroids (intra-articular injections, for example). . . .
. . . "Steroid Disaster" is a term coined by the pioneer of Lyme Treatment . . .
Corticosteroids are immune suppressants, the last thing a Lyme patient needs is to lower immunity.
Can you imagine, your body trying hard to fight off the spirochete bacteria and suddenly and immunosuppressants is introduced, "freezing" your immune system, rendering it unable to battle, giving great advantage now to the Lyme bacteria to spread and go wherever it wants .
Corticosteroids can last in the body for months, usually around 6 months. In many bacterial infections such as LD, damage can be done.
Many Lyme patients (such as myself) triggered LD with cortisone shots, pills, inhalers, etc. I can tell you, it is a nightmare I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
It is imperative to NEVER take corticosteroid for pain if you know you have a bacterial infection.
Some bacterial infections are so severe that a shot of cortisone could kill you, although that would be unlikely with Lyme, but rule of thumb, bacterial infections and immunosuppressants do not mix! . . .
. . . Dr. Burrascano makes it clear in his treatment guidelines that steroid treatment is detrimental, these are excerpts from his guidelines:
"More evidence has accumulated indicating the severe detrimental effects of the concurrent use of immunosuppressants including steroids in the patient with active B. burgdorferi infection.
Never give steroids or any other immunosuppressant to any patient who may even remotely be suffering from Lyme, or serious, permanent damage may result, especially if given for anything greater than a short course.
If immunosuppressive therapy is absolutely necessary, then potent antibiotic treatment should begin at least 48 hours prior to the immunosuppressants.
The severity of the clinical illness is directly proportional to the spirochete load, the duration of infection, and the presence of co-infections. These factors also are proportional to the intensity and duration of treatment needed for recovery.
More severe illness also results from other causes of weakened defenses, such as from severe stress, immunosuppressants medications, and severe intercurrent illnesses.
This is why steroids and other immunosuppressants medications are absolutely contraindicated in Lyme. This also includes intra-articular steroids."
An easy explanation. Your immune system are the "soldiers" of your body constantly standing by to attack any foreign invader.
When an immunosuppressant is used, it is like killing off or knocking out most of your "soldiers", now your body is open to all foreign invasion and while your immune system is knocked out, those invaders can go anywhere, your heart, liver, brain - everywhere.
[this is not an expert from any author's work but this poster's note below]
Low Dose Cortef to help adrenal repair:
However, temporary use of very LOW (sub-clinical) dose hydrocortisone (Cortef) has been used as the last resort for lyme patients close to adrenal failure.
The adrenals (and the entire endocrine system) really takes a hit with lyme. Adrenal failure can become fatal so, if nothing else is working, Cortef can be a life-saver - or prevent a patient from reaching a critical stage.
Under the care of a LLMD, this can give the adrenals enough of a rest in order to start healing. However, usually adrenal support measures known as adaptogens are first tried. For most, adaptogen support is enough (along with good self-care).
Those include Eleutherococcus senticosus, Ashwagandha, Cordyceps or Rhodiola (starting slowing with a low dose as that can be too stimulating for some patients -- and too much stimulation is damaging to adrenals). -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
I would choose option #2.
Lyme patients have bad reactions to many, many drug categories. Our systems are really sensitive. Some women say their Lyme symptoms showed up after hormonal therapy or menopause.
You should recover fairly quickly from a medical prodedure. Be sure to rest enough.
But please talk to your LLMD and follow your own instincts.
Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Thinking of all the Rx that were supposed to be like nothing but just blew me out of the water - like one puff of an asthma inhaler (steroid) that took me six months to get over. It was torture.
With option #2, adrenal support may be of help to calm and soothe your whole endocrine system. Nervous system support might also be of help. I hope you have good support all around you.
If you have a ND (naturopathic doctor), a L.Ac. (Acupuncturist), they would know best what kind of support to suggest.
BoxerMom, I hope you come back and can address what supportive elements would help. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Also to consider: other tick-borne infections that can be passed. Antibiotics will not cover all the tick-borne infections. This is why treatment with a good LLMD is essential.
Good luck with whatever decision you make. Take care. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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posted
Thanks! I'm not continuing the pregnancy. I haven't been wondering about that at all.
*******************
Regarding my question:
So I asked my LLMD's PA. She said it doesn't matter either way.
I didn't get to speak with her directly so I didn't get to ask her about the three different categories of steroids (sex, inmmuno-suppressant, and muscle mass building) to see if the sex steroid category is not totally off limits to Lyme patients. But she said it doesn't matter which type of abortion I choose and that I can get a prescription for the contraceptive "ring" without it being an issue.
However, I've taken to heart what I've heard here about certain meds bowling you over and exacerbating Lyme. The abortion pill is an intense med.
I also think a vacuum abortion is a pretty intense ordeal (and there are meds involved with that, too, but maybe softer ones). And it's not as private as the abortion pill. And despite the fact that I've shared this to an online forum of people I don't, I actually really am very private.
But the LLMD's PA said it doesn't matter either way.
I guess either way I'm screwed (again).
But I don't want to have that attitude about it. I'm going to enter the process and stay as present with it as possible. I really believe a lot of the trauma that happens in certain situation is because of fear and not managing the natural impulse to disassociate in a healthy way. Whatever that means...
Thanks for all of the support.
Posts: 43 | From Southeastern US | Registered: Jul 2009
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posted
Dear Aleigh, I am sorry you are struggling with this. Remember, anyone who judges you is just attempting to stroke their own ego. My concern is that the abortion drug is deadly. I recall reading about a teenager dying several years ago from taking it. Her father had no idea she was pregnant, and was devastated when his daughter died from a Clostridium Sordellii infection resulting from the pill. Here is a link to the story: http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-09-19/bay-area/17509875_1_ru-486-monty-patterson-holly-patterson . Many more are online. The father now speaks to teenagers encouraging them to tell their parents if they become pregnant and not to take this drug. The extraction method appears to be safer. Infections still may occur, but the pill has some terrifying drawbacks.
Hoosiers51
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15759
posted
I just read on that D&C link I posted, that the vaccuum method of abortion is simpler than a D&C. So I think you'll be fine with the procedure, and I wouldn't say you are "screwed." I survived the D&C just fine. No problems after.
I accidentally deleted my post above when trying to edit this post. Whopsie.
Anyways, I was assuming the vaccuum method you have as an option was the same as a D&C, but as I said, it turns out it is easier than a D&C. So everything I said about how going under anesthesia was easy, is irrelevant anyways, since this looks to be a different, simpler procedure.
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