posted
hello,i was doing some reading on band 41 which i have that it is some type of protazoan,flagella? does anyone know this for sure? ten years ago in college i took microbiology and it was my understanding that things with tails should not be in the body but in pond water.does anyone know the best antibiotic or med for this?
Posts: 125 | From western mass | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
41 kDa is the weight of the flagella (or tail) which many bacteria possess. It could be indicative of Borrelia or really just about anything else.
There was a graph floating around on here showing that almost 50% of healthy controls test positive on band 41.
Posts: 340 | From san francisco, ca | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
Speaking of which, if anyone has that graph, please post it again.
Posts: 340 | From san francisco, ca | Registered: Nov 2010
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Hambone
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29535
posted
quote:Originally posted by 5vforest: There was a graph floating around on here showing that almost 50% of healthy controls test positive on band 41.
I always wonder about these "healthy" controls.
How many of these "healthy" people are on some kind of med for something?
I know of so many people who consider themselves healthy, but take SSRI's or other antidepressants, benzos, blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds, etc etc etc. But they feel ok and consider themselves healthy.
And how many of these "healthy" controls ended up with some kind of health problem after the studies?
I ask, because in 2001 I had a Lyme test that was reactive ( bands 41 and 58 ) and I was never told. I was given an SSRI instead and felt better. Not terrific, but ok. Between 2001 and 2005 I probably would've considered myself "healthy". I was able to work and live.
But underneath I was FAR FAR from healthy because all that time I had Lyme and never knew. It finally kicked my butt in 2005.
My husband thinks he's the epitopmy of health because he feels that way, but he takes bp meds, and red yeast rice for cholesterol.
One of my best friends takes an SSRI, an NSAID, BP meds, and gets cortisone shots regularly for her neck and feet, but she is always posting on FB about how "blessed" she is to have good health. She feels good, but clearly there is something amiss if she needs all that stuff.
My sister takes thyroid meds, complains of being bloated and pms'y, and can be VERY irritable , but considers herself very healthy. She always seems to be throwing that in my face ( that she feels good ). She would definitely consider herself a healthy test subject if asked.
I think feeling healthy and actually BEING healthy are not the same.
I'm rambling Just wonder how many of those test subjects who had band 41 were truly healthy and not on other meds for other things that could've been caused by a hidden infection.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
I thought that a positive band 41 only shows anti-body exposure to the flagella not the actual flagella.
posted
"41: Flagella or tail. This is how Borrelia burgdorferi moves around, by moving the flagella. Many bacteria have flagella. This is the most common borreliosis antibody."
I have only 41 and 58 positive also and was told 41 was just the tail (can be anything) and 58 is just a protein.
So they are still a bit undecided on my lyme, if lyme treatment..even with two known ticks bites. I was convinced but now I am thinking maybe it is not lyme again and just viral issues since I have EBV and CFS (and yes I know all lyme patients have them too...but so do many who dont have lyme)
Ham, do you think that you had lyme all this time with just those two bands. I am so confused and frustrated. They keep changing my protocol and after only 3 months they decreased things. I think my LLMD is not sure any longer.
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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The number of people exposed is in the millions. The reason you can't get treated is they have decided that only early disease merits diagnosis and treatment. The bacterium itself is the most bizarre human bacterial pathogen known, and is poorly understood.
They don't know how many people are carrying a permanent relapsing brain infection. you can't get diagnosis or treatment because they have to pretend it doesn't exist and use labels like 'post lyme' and 'CFS' etc. for those who manifest illness.
Look at what Steere did in his 1992 study which is the foundation for the CDC serodiagnostic standard. He and others often look back on this and refer to a 'normal' control, but in fact the control was taken from sick people...MS sufferers, CFS sufferers, in sum, conditions which could have been caused or complicated by late Bb infection. Moreover, he threw in 25 syphilitic patients which constituted 20% of the control. Hoever, syphilis itself has an annual US incidence of 3 per 100,000.
This statistical chicanery, which fudged the result at 41 kDa on Bb blot by many multiples, is significant, because syph serum will cross react at 41 kDa to Bb western blots. It allowed them to 'swift boat' the importance of the reaction to 41 kDa, which is the earliest and most consistent human ab response to Bb infection, being present in all stages as opposed to the rest of the proteins which are variably expressed according to stage, tissue type, even temperature.
Flagellin {41kDa} is necessary for Bb to survive under all conditions, and is constantly expressed, including in late CNS infection. Yet they chose to swift-boat this response.
Why? It's for political and economic reasons. telling the truth about diagnosis and treatment results in mass panic and probable economic collapse/political revolution. it's likely a bioweapon. North American disease is different from European disease...lack of CSF antibodies, for instance.
A much larger range of serum resistance to host species in wild{allows Bb to infect a much wider range of species, important in disease spread and maintenance in wild}. The CDC has found that Bb 31 goes intracellular in CNS cells.
Telling the truth threatens the careers and livelihoods of the very individuals who control this issue and who have actively lied and deceived and otherwise operated a scientific propaganda campaign for the past 15+ years, profitting from the campaign as they went.
Lyme disease, which in the US also perhaps includes other pathogens notably a bioweaponized bartonella, threatens the entire establishment. If late disease was rare, we'd be able to get treatment. Unfortunately, the EIS/CDC,DOD totally screwed this up and tried to make money off of the disease, making profitability their first priority as opposed to protecting the health of americans.
Think about this...Allen Steere wouldn't listen to Polly Murray in early 90's when she reported a big incidence of neuropsychiatric disease in lyme. She had to call Fallon. Now, Fallon has overwhelming evidence of a serious disabling relapsing brain condition which is not easily treated.
Global hypoperfusion on spect/pet ain't normal folks. Don't you think the CDC etc. should be breaking their balls trying to figure it out? Instead, we see nothing at all, only continued attempts to deny illness and obstruct treatment.
Obviously, they know what is going on, and have determined that the best course is to do nothing, to cover up, knowing that in doing so, they are condemning large numbers of people to perpetual diagnostic and treatment hell.
Think about it. It's a horrific scandal and I'm not sure how much longer these *******s can keep control of it.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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posted
thanks for post,i also have the band 23 KDA IGM with band 41 IGM.
Posts: 125 | From western mass | Registered: Sep 2010
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Hambone
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 29535
posted
quote:Originally posted by annier1071: Ham, do you think that you had lyme all this time with just those two bands. I am so confused and frustrated. They keep changing my protocol and after only 3 months they decreased things. I think my LLMD is not sure any longer.
YES, because those are the two bands that were reactive in 2001 ( when Mayo Clinic never told me ).
I was tested again through Igenex in 2010 and had bands 31, 34, 41 and 58.
31 and 34 weren't tested in 2001 because it was a lousy Mayo Clinic test.
I also have the white spots on my brain MRI, high cholesterol, high SED rate, very high CD-57 ( in the 400's )....just too many things that should not be.
Posts: 1142 | From South | Registered: Dec 2010
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Bear in mind, just 578 samples. Wonder how geographically distributed that was, and so on. In any event, count me on the list of people that considers an explanation for this to be that 40% of the population has exposure to borrelia or H.Pylori, to be at least as reasonable an explanation as any other ones that have come up.
Posts: 1927 | From se usa | Registered: Mar 2010
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I was just retested after 3 mths treatment adn will have results the end of this week. This band 41 is so controversial as is lyme. I no longer have "brain shocks" after only 3 months on oral abx. This, to me, means something is working. Whether it be the abx or the methylc injections or supplements, I dont know?
I also have an mri with white lesions which they still insist I see a neuro about since it stated possible MS or lyme. They want me to rule out the MS to be safe.
I started with mostly all dizziness and cogno issues that improved slightly but I now gained muscle and joint pain that hurts only when I try to move or get up. Laying still seems to keep the pain at bay?
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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posted
annie... just keep in mind that there are NO tests for MS. It is a diagnosis of elimination.
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96223 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Abxnomore
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 18936
posted
That's correct, MS is a process of elimination and it does not respond to ABX.
Annier I'm glad to hear you are making such nice improvements. I'm sure both the ABX and the B12 are helping you.
Posts: 5191 | From Lyme Zone | Registered: Jan 2009
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posted
So MS patients would not feel significantly worse (herx) with antibiotic treatment? They would just stay the same - not get worse, not get better?
I always wonder if I might have MS, but my LLMD says no and I have pretty severe herxes with antibiotics, also CD-57 was 24 and positive lyme test. But, you can't help but wonder when you're treating and not getting well.
Posts: 618 | From NC | Registered: Oct 2009
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That is my problem. I do not herx on abx. I thought I did but my muscle pain, as per my LLMD, is from babesia, no abx herx.
I have a Cd of 185 (normal) and negative lyme tests. I guess any of us that have evidence on the brain will panic and always wonder what it is.
-------------------- Diagnosed with chronic neuro lyme 12/10 after 30 years of vertigo.2 tick bites in 3 yrs from upstate NY. Was on omincef for nine mths..zith and rifampin stopped.Remission~ All the pain and symptoms are back and I am not treating now with biaxin. Posts: 788 | From New york..queens | Registered: Nov 2010
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, but considers herself very healthy. She always seems to be throwing that in my face ( that she feels good ). She would definitely consider herself a healthy test subject if asked. ![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
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