steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
Lyme and the gallbladder
This an area of Lyme medicine which deserves more attention. Many Lyme patients end up with removal of the gallbladder. Lyme can infect the wall of the gallbladder and cause chronic inflammation. This appears to happen with increased frequency when there is also evidence of Salmonella infection.
In the past most gallbladder disease was related to gall stones. There has been a change. Most patients with gallbladder disease no longer have stones; they have chronic inflammation of the gallbladder. Patients with gallbladder disease have recurrent bouts of abdominal pain which starts out mild but gradually builds up to severe pain. The pain may be located in the right upper abdomen or be generalized to the entire abdomen. Nausea and vomiting may occur.
In the past doctors have ordered a sonogram to evaluated the gallbladder. When the problem is related to infection this test will be normal. The diagnosis is made with a nuclear medicine scan called a HIDA scan, with the administration of a hormone called CCK. The hormone injection will likely cause the symptoms to recur and the test will showed a low ejection fraction, indicating abnormal functioning of the gallbladder. Generally, successful treatment requires removal of the gallbladder which can be done with a minimally invasive laparoscope. The fact that intravenous Rocephin is known to cause gallbladder attacks may suggest that this is a sort of Herxheimer reaction involving a gallbladder which is already infected with Lyme bacteria.
My daughter's HIDA scan showed her gallbladder was functioning at only 15% (she has Lyme & Bartonella, also salmonella). Her doctor prescibed actigall (ursodiol) to try to save her gallbladder. But based on what you have written, it sounds like that will be useless - if her gallbladder problems are due to inflammation and not gallstones. Is this correct? Good question. There is a gallbladder/blood barrier. Antibiotics penetrate poorly into and infected gallbladder.
The GB can act as a resevoir of chronic infection, adding to the difficulty of treating Lyme. Some patients immediately feel less toxic when the GB is removed since a major source of germs is gone. Actigall reduces the viscosity of bile (it makes it thinner). Some docs use it with Rocephin to prevent sludging and gallbladder attacks. If your daughter has painfull gall bladder attacks she clearly needs the GB removed. If the CCK injection given with the HIDA scan reproduced her symptoms it is clear evidence that she has a bad gallbladder. Some patients may get better with intensive antibiotic regimens without removing the gallbladder.
It makes Lyme therapy more difficult. The infection resides in the wall of the gallbadder, not in the bile. There is no scientific basis for the use of Actigall for an infected gallbladder. Actigall has been used at times to dissolve gallstones, but is marginally effective. A well know Lyme MD had her gallbadder removed and a lab was able to prove Lyme (Borrelia) in the GB wall by PCR. I don't think Bartonella is an issue. Salmonella is a hardy germ with a thick cell wall that burrows into the gut wall. It also has a liking for the GB wall. Over and over I have found that Lyme/Gallbladder patients also have high antibodies to Salmonella.
A long winded answer, but I believe for the most part you are correct. If her symptoms are not an issue antibiotics can be tried, but the Actgall will be of no value in my humble? opinion. I know--all of us doctors are arrogant. You got to be a little arrogant to take on the whole medical community. Your doc is well intentioned, but I think wrong. Good luck.
Thank you. [b]I know I speak for many when I say that I appreciate doctors like you who go against the mainstream medical community in order to help patients who are suffering.[b] Again, thanks! I had gall bladder problems long before I had debilitating arthritis and muscle weakness.
I had 2 scans and there were no gall stones.Eventually I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease. Amoxycillin has been particularly good for arthritis and muscle weakness but not for gall bladder pain especially after eating fatty food. When I was on Doxycycline and again now on Clarithromycin (with Amoxycilin) for sinus/throat infection, I find gall bladder pain is easier.
It is not bad enough to consider surgery. What antibiotic is likely to be most effective on Lyme in the gall bladder?
Gall bladder cancer is a rare cancer. It is rarely found among below fifty age. And it is mostly found in females then males. The reason behind this cancer is not very much clear. Person suffering from it, feels sick, fever, yellowing of skin, scratchy skin etc. If anyone feels such symptoms should immediately go to doctor because mostly this cancer is detected in last stage. For more information on gall bladder cancer, refer Gall bladder symptoms.
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
sammy
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 13952
posted
Good find Steve. I miss reading LymeMD's blog. He always had interesting information to share.
Posts: 5237 | From here | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
It sounds to me the best rememdy for an infected gall bladder are coffee enemas. The coffee goes into the colon through a portal vein to the liver and back through the gall bladder into the small intestines. If you do enough of these it should help the gall bladder.
You might also add baking soda and tinctures to the coffee to kill any infection as the liquid recycle from the colon to gall bladder. A tincture to consider are black walnut and Artimesin. I've never tried it but was curious of any thoughts about it.
I saved my gall bladder by doing lots of HC liver cleanses.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
steve1906
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 16206
posted
I've been having pain (under my right rib cage area) also (upper back area) also (little dark color urine, *sometimes* + smells a little at times).
Here�s what I did so far:
Blood test (CBC � urine test � abdominal Ultrasound)
Got the results from the blood work today � they said everything was (normal) � I�ll see the report on Friday.
Here�s the kicker> The woman that did the ultrasound looked at a past ultrasound, about a year ago, and asked me if anyone ever told me they found a small Polyp on my gall bladder � I said no, no one has ever mentioned that to me!!!
I�m glad my blood work came back okay, I guess that�s a good start.
Any ideas?
-------------------- Everything I say is just my opinion! Posts: 3529 | From Massachusetts Boston Area | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
You say they found a "small Polyp" on your gall bladder." I would consider mold as a possibility.
I just got done reading Dr. S's new book Surviving Mold and I think polyps/ fuzzy stuff / foreign objects / some cysts = mold.
I am no doctor... and I don't know your history...
I, myself have lived and worked in many sick buildings. Now, when I walk into a sick (moldy) building... I get knocked back. This is due to prior exposure... Dr. S. calls this "sicker, quicker."
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
I was told I had several polyps on my gallbladder, even ones that were growing! Yes those ultrasounds are really something.
When I had the surgery to take out my gallbladder, surprise! No polyps! Don't always believe what they tell you.
I did have chronic gallbladder disease but that wasn't picked up by any ultrasound.
posted
I had a scan to see if I had a gallbladder problems because of abdominal pain. The gallbladder was normal (now I wonder reading this) and found out I have PKD. Keeps life exciting.
-------------------- ------------ It took 20 years to find out I'm not crazy. New bite in 2010 pushed my body over the edge. Positive for lyme, babs, bart, and myco. I am not a doctor and happily offer only my own opinions. Posts: 357 | From The Beach | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged |
lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
I recommend anybody with severe gallbladder issues have a HIDA Scan...
Bartonella henselae 1:100 Posts: 2027 | From British Columbia | Registered: Jun 2010
| IP: Logged |
Annie C
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14
posted
Great topic. I was told when the TESTS came back that mine was bad, and must be removed. I said no it doesnt. Then I immediately said Im sorry for my Blurt. Because it was after 8pm when he called me. Then I said thank you for calling me.
Im not a Dr. and I still have and use my gallbladder daily. Here is where I sign off of treatments. Because what works for one may or may not help a certain % do to all of you alls previous Medical data.
So I researched and I chose to do a cleansing of body parts. I began with my liver and gallbladder. Then I had to quit eating foods that will send me into a major gallbladder pain up through my right shoulder. When I feel a flairup and knowing I ate something. I can stop the pain, by first Dont Eat It.
Everyone is different and a Dr will not tell you what I learned. Experience WOW what a teacher of the Experience. I have told Dr. what I do. They say Oh I didn't know.
The Old saying is "An Apple a Day Keeps the Dr AwaY" There is many things an apple has for us.
Happy Gallbladder is a Good day.
Oh The Dr said that mine was filled with sludge and maybe a stone. So always get more opinions.
AND FROM HERE TOO.
-------------------- May God Bless you every day. And Never say never and do not give up no matter what. We need you to help others. Posts: 1288 | From Tetons Wyoming | Registered: Oct 2000
| IP: Logged |
Rumigirl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 15091
posted
Groan, I probably need a HIDA scan. I have had a number of gall bladder attacks, all when I was on IV rocephin. I just had 3 severe ones within a week and a half recently. Severe pain and nausea, throwing up, passing out if upright, and sweating.
I went to the ER, sonogram was ok, as were the previous ones, lipase and liver enzymes were quite high though.
So I went off rocephin, delayed IVIG tx until the liver enzymes came down, and did my THIRD Liver/Gallbladder Flush in 3 weeks! I had been doing one per month while on rocephin.
So, I'm much better, BUT I still have some liver/gallbladder pain, which concerns me. Not horrible, but not good.
But the problem with rocephin and the GB is that it can precipitate in the GB, which is what causes the sludging and stones.
It may well be that LymeMD's explanation is also true, but why only with rocephin?? I think it's probably more due to the properties of rocephin. But the infection in the GB surely doesn't help.
I don't want to lose my GB!
Posts: 3771 | From around | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
lyme in Putnam
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 11561
posted
Got mine taken out due to rocephin. Caused stones and I thought since rocephin was my treatment for life since i cleared up remission 4 times. I decided to take it out. What a surprise to find out this time around antibiotics ruined me and started with herbals. Rude awakening.
-------------------- He took u to it, He'll you through Posts: 2837 | From NE. | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
momlyme
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 27775
posted
I had mine out... I wish I didn't!
I went to my doc with knife stabbing pain... they said there were stones in my gallbladder and it needed to come out. I think they told me the gallbladder was a useless organ anyway...
I had the surgery and I still have the same pain...
Guess it wasn't my gallbladder after all!
I am not sure what the gallbladder does.
I have read about how coffee enemas stimulate the gallbladder and so I am hesitant to try enemas because I don't have a gallbladder to stimulate.
What happens to those of us who don't have gallbladders?
-------------------- May health be with you!
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
| IP: Logged |
lymie_in_md
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 14197
posted
Sorry to say Heather it is far from a useless organ. It's purpose is to store concentrated bile and when you eat a meal especially with protein and fats it release the bile all at once. So it has a role in proper digestion. When it is removed the liver just drips bile continuously. People who have had there gall bladders out, don't digest proteins or fats as well.
The concentrated bile being release has the advantage of clearing both the small and large intestinges of pathogens.
The coffee enema or liver/gall bladder flush are still appropriate whether you have a gall bladder or not.
Many times the pain is in the liver and not the gall bladder. Please ask your doctor, ohhhh wait a minute, your doctor says your gall bladder has no useful purpose and doctors are gods. Because only gods no more then nature.
-------------------- Bob Posts: 2150 | From Maryland | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
Razzle
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 30398
posted
I sure don't miss my gallbladder (was full of large stones)...getting rid of it ended 15 years of nearly constant nausea. And I could eat ginger, butter, and a number of other things after getting rid of the gallbladder that I hadn't been able to eat for a couple years prior to the surgery. And my bowels were a lot happier without the gallbladder, too...stools became a normal color again (were getting more & more pale prior to the surgery) and were easier to pass.
-------------------- -Razzle Lyme IgM IGeneX Pos. 18+++, 23-25+, 30++, 31+, 34++, 39 IND, 83-93 IND; IgG IGeneX Neg. 30+, 39 IND; Mayo/CDC Pos. IgM 23+, 39+; IgG Mayo/CDC Neg. band 41+; Bart. (clinical dx; Fry Labs neg. for all coinfections), sx >30 yrs. Posts: 4166 | From WA | Registered: Feb 2011
| IP: Logged |
The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:
The
Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey 907 Pebble Creek Court,
Pennington,
NJ08534USA http://www.lymenet.org/
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[bonk]](graemlins/bonk.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic