posted
I just started amoxi some days ago, but have to stop it already: it causes extreme brainfog, dizziness, confusion. when i say extreme i mean it: i cant think clear anymore and dont want it to make me insane. i have even problems writing this. some people in other forums wrote this amoxi-sideeffect never disappeared after stopping.
usually i wouldnt worry and just continue, but this also happened with all other abx last year: biaxin, mino, zithro and tini/flagyl. flagyl was the first antibiotic i got suddenly brainfog and confusion from. never had it before. and after flagyl it never really left, just got worse with every other abx, especially tini. i couldnt even walk then.
before this sudden flagyl-brainfog-effect i never had any problem with any antibiotic! i could take them all for years.
i am still looking for an explanation. my ideas:
- i suspected yeast, but i have been to the best yeast expert of the country who checked everything like tongue, blood, stool: nothing.
- since other symptoms like nerve pain or tiredness always get better when the brainfog gets worse maybe its two infections fighting in my body. the abx kicks down lyme, so the other infection can cause brainfog. then the question would be: which other infection? virus or bacteria?
- maybe the flagyl caused nerve damage in my cns so it cant stand other abx anymore.
- maybe the flagyl destroyed my bbb so the abx pushes borrelia into my brain.
- since the brainfog/confusion-stuff never fully went away it cant be herx.
- maybe this isnt lyme at all anymore but another disease.
lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
i am long term chronic and dealing with this so you and i may not be the same...but i am trying to figure out the same thing
the fog ends up making me very depressed
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
I have the same thing. It seems that it started after Rifampin. I kept thinking it was a herx and that it was hitting my brain but it really never got better.
I didn't think about the Flagyl or Tindi, maybe your right, that may have had an effect. Maybe it's time for a major detox.
I'm now doing Malarone and IV Clidamycin. I'm waiting to see if it gets better on my 1 week break coming up.
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
clind brought it on the last time for me...my second time on clind but this time heavier dosee
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
glad to see that im not the only one with this strange reaction!
So do you continue taking abx despite they make you more foggy? or is it just that one abx started the fog for you and other do not increase it?
i also did get a strange taste in my throat from every antibiotic i took in the last time.
maybe this has do with it? maybe the abx affects my thyroid (although my thyroid tests were fine)?
Posts: 214 | From Home | Registered: Apr 2011
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lpkayak
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 5230
posted
actually...i am realizing that 400mg doxy oral is snapping me out of it..i can't believe the way i am talking...the words i am remembering
-------------------- Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself. Posts: 13712 | From new england | Registered: Feb 2004
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TerryK
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 8552
posted
Your reaction is not strange. Some of us have difficulty removing the toxins from die off. That's what the HLA testing is all about. There are many threads about this in the archives.
My LLMD started me on binders even before I started treatment. He also told me that borrelia die-off releases heavy metals so binders for that are helpful as well.
There are some here who argue that the theory has no merit. Quite a few LLMD's use binders for neurotoxins. Please research before dismissing it.
I could not tolerate abx without the binders. When I stopped abx for awhile enough toxins cleared that long time pain left. It is a very real and convincing issue for some of us.
I'm not around much these days so I may not check back in this thread. Do a search here in the archives for neurotoxins, detox, binders etc. etc.. to learn more.
Of course your problem could be something else but this is a typical problem for lyme patients.
Terry
Posts: 6286 | From Oregon | Registered: Jan 2006
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map1131
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 2022
posted
Sometimes the treatment for lyme & co super bacteria is actually worse than without treatment.
Without abx is horrible. With treatment it's horrible but you have to get ahead of the bacteria.
Kill them off one by one. They fight and even change their face in order to hide from the enemies. Oh yeah when they die, they put off the most toxic byproduct that the body has no idea how to get rid of the waste.
That's one smart bacteria(s).
Pam
-------------------- "Never, never, never, never, never give up" Winston Churchill Posts: 6478 | From Louisville, Ky | Registered: Jan 2002
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Haley
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22008
posted
Terry - what did you use for binders?
Posts: 2232 | From USA | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
I'd also be curious to know what Terry is using as binders. I use green clay (I call it my dirt water), activated charcoal and chlorella as binders. They need to be taken 2 hours before or after taking meds/supplements.
I am on a lot of herbal supplements to detox the liver, kidneys, lymph system and support the immune system. I could not function without them. The pain and brain fog is unbearable without them. I also do the detox bath and drink 2 gal of water a day.
I know some people respond well to herbs and others do not, but if you haven't tried them, it may be worth it to give it a try before you throw in the towel with the abx.
The fact that you've had such an extreme herx with each abx makes me curious if it's an overload of die-off and toxins just piling up in our body with no where to go?
Just a humble opinion I hope you find what works soon!
-------------------- No tick bite/rash sick Nov '09 diagnosed Mar '11 Doxy/Zithro LOTS of supplements
Psalm 62:5b He is my rock and my salvation. He is my defender, I WILL NOT BE DEFEATED! Posts: 127 | From Illinois | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
When Lyme dies your body releases neurotoxins. This is the cause of your brainfog. Until the toxins are addressed taking antibiotics may be counterproductive. If your body is too toxic antibiotics will just hurt you. You need to detox by one of several methods, some work better for different people.
I use Phosphadityl choline, SyDetox, Pekana drainage, Burber or parsley tincture, intestinal drawing formula, detox baths, infrared sauna, coffee enemas, alka seltzer gold, glutathione, and lemon water to prevent this. These things have literally helped save my life. I would get so sick everytime I took antibiotics and would not recover.
My doctor now puts me on this stuff and I have 0 problems. I never get sick from antibiotics, I just improve. I kept getting sicker before I detoxed and my body literally shut down. This seems like a maricle because I used to get severely sick from 1 pill. Detox is often overlooked and detoxifying can make the difference in if you get better or not.
Not everything works for every person so please do not get discouraged if something you try doesn't work. It took me a while to find things that work. Please feel free to send me a message on more info. I hope you feel better, please do not to discouraged. Take care of yourself.
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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posted
Lindsay, good to hear it helps you. unfortunately my llmd doesnt know anything about detox.
it would be logical if borrelia releases toxins like other bacteria, but on the other hand i dont think there is scientific proof for it yet. but if it helps some, there must be something.
But the brainfog and other cns-stuff i got from tini/metro, later zithro and other abx didnt go away IN A YEAR - so my body had a lot of time to remove those toxins. if it would have been the toxins.
years ago i cosidered questran for detox but dismissed it due to its possible side effects and because some obviously get worse on it. i think i will do some new research about it. any recommendations for easy accessable detoxing you can do without a md?
posted
i belive some abx cause permanent damage because it kinds of sets on an unknown process in our body that just never stops leading to "autoimmune" reactions... That is why our allergies increase with abx, our brain fog increases too...
Posts: 723 | From Montreal | Registered: Oct 2010
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posted
Shahbah, unfortunately you might be right. in the end antibiotics have done more harm to me than they helped.
Posts: 214 | From Home | Registered: Apr 2011
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posted
Flagyl appears to be the only antibiotic you've taken (Tindamax as well, they're about the same thing) that treats the cyst form of Lyme.
Flagyl is also the best antibiotic for reaching the nervous system, out of the ones you listed.
I've had the same thing you're experiencing. My brain fog has gotten worse. I am on Rifampin...
Haley mentioned hers got worse after Rifampin as well.
Flagyl, Tindamax, and Rifampin, all treat the cyst form of Lyme. So that may be a factor. The cysts don't cause symptoms, but when they're in the brain, they cause inflammation, which might be why attackign them worsens the brainfog. Also, when the cysts are attacked, they just convert back to regular form and start causing symptoms all over again. This might explain why any antibiotics you take, now, are making your brain symptoms so much worse. Perhaps you "woke it up." Just a guess!
ETA: Also, do look into detox, even if it's just starting with lemon water! The body wasn't designed to deal with the die-off of massive, systemic infections, over long periods of time.
-------------------- Myalgic encephalomyelitis, 2002 | Viral onset, following Hep B vaccine Lyme since '06 | Bartonella since '08 (cured) | Mycoplasma pneumoniae since '08 IGeneX: IgM 31IND 34IND 41+ | IgG 39IND 58+ 41+++ IgG deficiencies and MTHFR 677TT mutations Posts: 512 | From USA | Registered: Sep 2010
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posted
If you send me a pm I will send you easy detox methods. Depending on how advanced your disease is your doctor may not even treat the cyst form, expescially until you are stronger. my llmd is great and says he will never put me on sis busters because I cannot handle regular antibiotics. His theory is that you build up that immune system to keep the lyme dormant. the downfall to this is that you can create an autoimmune reaction. Treating can cause more harm than good if your body's to weak.
-------------------- "One day at a time"
Current: -1.2 IM bicillin three times a week -1.25 IV Vancomycin every day -IV glutathione and IM B12 -Byron White since Jan. 2011 -ALA, Yasko protocal, Adapten-All, thyrosol, Pekano, phosphalipid exchange, probiotics, oregano... Posts: 390 | From FLORIDA | Registered: Jun 2007
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lululymemom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 26405
posted
I agree binders can make a significant difference. I used chitosan and my daughter liked apple pectin. Ribonucleic acid (RNA) along with Eleuthro (Siberian Ginseng) also helped me with brain fog.
i am not sure if waking up sleeping bacteria is a good thing at all then.
i have read something interesting and have another theory now: a scientiest several times gave a toxic substance and sugar to rats, their system reacted to it. then he only gave them sugar, they also reacted like it was toxic cos their body was trained to do so if they get sugar. could be the same with us. since neurotoxic flagyl/rifampin our body was trained to react to any antibiotic like it was toxic. even if it is not.
lululymemom, eleuthero only seemed to increase my symptoms.
Posts: 214 | From Home | Registered: Apr 2011
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