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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Herxing and the immune system?

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Author Topic: Herxing and the immune system?
lada
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Don't know if anyone here knows the answer to my question but I'll take a chance. Do you herx more if your immune system is weak? Or is it just the opposite. Thanks.
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Tincup
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Don't know, lada. Good question!

My thought is herxing intensity is related to spirochetal load, the medications effectiveness and the individual's ability to remove toxins.

My other thought- yes, two in one day- aren't you proud of me?

[lol]

In a chronically ill patient the immune system has been struggling or is just about give up (?) and has to be rebuilt from there. Having a stronger immune system after the spirochetal load is reduced might help fight the infections?

That's my guess. So be happy you stumped the chump today with your question. Hopefully others will be better at explaining their theories.

[Big Grin]

--------------------
www.TreatTheBite.com
www.DrJonesKids.org
www.MarylandLyme.org
www.LymeDoc.org

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lada
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Ha! Your funny Tin. Makes sense though what you said about the Lyme load. I wonder how much that cd57 test plays into things? I think that's the correct name of the test for ones immune system. Anway, would be cool if someone out there knows the real answer to this question.
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desertwind
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Don't really have any answer to your question but I can say that my dear hubby NEVER herxes and we know he does/did have lyme. He has a very strong immune system.

Me on the other hand? I have herxing straight from hell and my immune system is not very hardy at all.

So in my small sample group of 2 my answer would be yes you herx worse with a weakened immune system.

Also, I tested negative for the gene that is related to the bodies ability to process out toxins (sorry but I forget the name of it). So for me that is part of my bad herxing - not having the innate ablility to process out all the die off.

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TF
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Suggest you read p. 17 of Burrascano to understand what causes herxing.

These are the factors I see there that affect herxing:

--how effective the medications are that you are taking (is it "appropriate antibiotic therapy"?)

I never herxed until I was put on a combination of 2 medications (amoxicillin and flagyl.) On amoxicillin alone, even at the beginning when my germ load would have been high, I did not herx. That's because lyme knows how to evade amoxi by converting into the cyst form. Once I was put on the 2 meds, the lyme had no way to avoid being killed. Hence the herx.

--The 4 week flare cycle (possibly the growth cycle of lyme)

You will herx worse in the fourth week of appropriate treatment

--higher germ load (Hence, more germs to kill)

Although not mentioned on page 17, your ability to detoxify (remove the dead germs and the toxins they may produce) will also affect how sick you feel during a herx.

I would say if your immune system is strong, you will complete your treatment quicker. Your immune system will be able to take over from the medications and kill the germs and keep them in check quicker than a person with a very weak immune system.

So, that's how a healthy immune system will help you.

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lada
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Hey thanks all some good thoughts. I don't seem to herx much but feel much better on a combo of meds. I guess my immune system is relatively hearty. Someone mentioned a gene test. Would love to know more about that.
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TF
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If you don't experience bad herxing or other signs of inability to detoxify (such as, inability to tolerate any medications no matter what and no matter the dose), then your doctor will not suggest the genetic testing.

It is very expensive, so only when genetic inability to detox is suspected would a person want to pursue the possibility.

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lada
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Hey thanks all some good thoughts. I don't seem to herx much but feel much better on a combo of meds. I guess my immune system is relatively hearty. Someone mentioned a gene test. Would love to know more about that.
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desertwind
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Yes, it a test that looks for a specific gene/marker that is suppose to be connected with ones ability to rid the body of toxins.

I cannot remember the name of it though. My doc tested me for that years ago and it turned out I tested very very low which is how we figured I was getting overloaded with die - off toxins.

Once I slowed down on the meds and worked on the toxins things started moving in the right direction. Kinda like a dance of knowing when to move in what direction. Time on meds vs. time to clear the body out.

Maybe if you do a google search you will find more info on the specific name of the test.

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lada
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I see. Thanks.
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