canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I took 15 drops of Sage Oil 2 hours ago and about 20 minutes after taking it I went into a seizure.
Scariest Lyme experience so far without a doubt. I'm still shell shocked.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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BoxerMom
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251
posted
OMGosh! Are you OK?
This reminds me of Bryan Rosner's experience with cilantro in the blender. He wrote about it in his book. It turned out to be much more powerful than he had anticipated.
I hope you're taking a break so your body can recover.
glm1111
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 16556
posted
OMG!!!!!!!!! Are you alright? What was the recommended dose?
Gael
-------------------- PARASITES/WORMS ARE NOW RECOGNIZED AS THE NUMBER 1 CO-INFECTION IN LYME DISEASE BY ILADS* Posts: 6418 | From philadelphia pa | Registered: Jul 2008
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posted
Whoa!!! Very sorry to hear!!! Hope you are OK!!!
-------------------- --Lymetutu-- Opinions, not medical advice! Posts: 96222 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- 15 drops of ANY essential oil is a huge amount because they are so strong. usually, it's like one drop to a couple tablespoons of a carrier oil and then take only one or two drops of that mix.
How did you take it? Be sure to tell the professional who prescribed that amount for you as they will need to know.
I recall from early in my seizure days that sage, as a supplement, should be avoided by those with seizure threshold issues. This from a naturopathic doctor. I think I recall that it can raise cranial pressure.
Now, about having sage seasoning blends on a Thanksgiving turkey, I do fine with that. And there is another sage supplement ROOT (DanShen) that works exceedingly well for me.
But the concentrated leaves or oils can clobber me.
I'm so sorry you had to go through this. I hate everything about seizures. -
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- From what has helped me after seizures, here are a few suggestions:
What to do now: Arnica homeopathic; Arnica oil or ointment topically on any bumps you got; LOTS of water; after the homeopathic 20 minute window is over, take some magnesium and fish oil.
Other Adrenal support like calming Holy Basil (Tulsi). Scullcap tincture and Milky Oat Seed extract are also very calming.
REST. Limit time on electronic devices of all kinds and listen to some Mozart as his music is the most therapeutic for the brain to normalize.
Some mediTation, Qi Gong or Tai Chi moves can also help the brain waves normalize.
Should should feel better by morning but it may be a week before you are back to your normal.
If this is a first time thing, it's probably from the high dose of oil and likely an isolated event.
If so, I would avoid driving until you have your groundings for sure. However, if you feel twitchy, jumpy, have more of a startle reflex, I would not drive until you consult your doctor about this. If you have a history of seizures, well, then, there are a few other oils to avoid in the future.
Also: AVOID L-GLUTAMINE as a supplement, unless in a small amount in with many other nutrients.
L-Glutamine can trigger seizures in those prone to such. Of course, avoid MSG and aspartame. They can also trigger seizures in some folks.
Don't let your blood sugar get too low (or too high). Food is good for your brain.
Take care. Sleep, rest, nest. Feel nurtured.
This will get better and my guess is avoiding some of these things will help. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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One report in a medical journal told of two adults and a child who experienced tonic-clonic seizures for the first time after using some of these oils.
The authors of this report (Burkhard et al.) listed 11 herbal essential oils that may cause seizures:
� Eucalyptus (Eucalyptus globulus)
� Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare)
� Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalis)
� Pennyroyal (Mentha pulegium or Hedeoma pulegioides)
� Rosemary (Rosmarinus officinalis)
� Sage (Salvia officinalis)
� Savin (Juniperus sabina)
� Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare)
� Thuja (Thuya occidentalis)
� Turpentine (Pinus species)
� Wormwood (Artemisia absinthium)
. . . .
- more at the link above and also a good idea to do a Google and PubMed search of:
Sage, Seizures
Essential+oils, Seizures
But, really now, I hope you are NOT on the computer. You may feel revved up but try to fight that so your brain can settle down. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Thanks for the responses.
After some research it appears that thujone (chemical in sage and wormwood) is a convulsant and can cause seizure activity. It's a neuro-toxin.
I think it's the fact that it's an essential oil though (versus maybe powdered herb) that made things bad for me (because the oil/aroma gets into the nervous system easily? (goes intracellular)
I feel better now but my brain is still very spacy. Ugh
I guess this is the double edged sword to having to treat Lyme Disease - even with the "natural" treatments you can get blind-sided.
Hippocrates had it right - First do no harm
Live and learn. Thanks again for help.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Please do not take sage as a powdered herb. From here on, it would be best to limit it to tiny amounts such as in a holiday meal with lots of other ingredients and good foods.
As a ROOT, DanShen may still be fine for you, though. Only the ROOT, not the aerial parts or oil.
As for do no harm, individual reactions can vary.
Sage is not a bad thing but just not meant for some people and certainly not in that amount. Lyme patients are also more subseptical (sp?) to seizures.
It has taught me to read everything from many different sources for anything that may not work with MY body.
And, I wonder if that 15 drops was advised on a web site somewhere. If so, that should be corrected.
Again, take care. For the next few days you should be VERY protected from excessive stimuli.
Please also let your LLMD know about this. He / she needs to know as your treatment plan may need some changes.
Oh, as last night was Halloween, if you had candy &/or gluten, that (or those) could have also added to the fuel and the sage oil was just the match.
----- I am not any kind of medical professional. My suggestions are based solely on my own experiences and something to consider as you talk with your doctors. -
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karenl
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 17753
posted
canefane,
sage is an antiparasitic. Could it have caused a big die-off in your brain,called seizure?
Posts: 1834 | From US | Registered: Oct 2008
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Thanks Keebler for info.
15 drops was not recommended. I'm sure I overdid it (why is it in my nature to do things aggressively lol - I even doubt this reaction will stop those bad habits hehe)
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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scorpiogirl
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posted
Oh my goodness!! Glad to see you're doing better. How scary!
-------------------- Posts: 1391 | From Lyme Land | Registered: May 2011
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posted
Glad ur feeling better. That must have been scary. Take care Posts: 905 | From Santa Cruz,Calif | Registered: Aug 2005
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Canefan,
You say: "15 drops was not recommended. I'm sure I overdid it (why is it in my nature to do things aggressively lol - I even doubt this reaction will stop those bad habits hehe) " (end quote)
----------------
Seizures are nothing to mock. Saying that you PLAN to go overboard with whatever else you decide to try does, in fact, mock the brain. And the brain can strike back.
This is no "LOL" or smirking "he-he" matter. It's not a badge of courage.
While many "normal" people may have some very mild seizures and not even realize it,
once someone has had one remarkable seizure, there is this process called "kindling" that lowers the threshold for more to follow, often with less of a trigger.
As mentioned before, seizures are no stranger to many with neuroborreliosis.
Please don't push the limits. As long as you drive a vehicle or even ride a bike, knowing that you may be at risk for another seizure is equal to driving drunk. It puts you and others at risk, especially without having had some medical assessment about this.
Even if a tonic or clonic kind of seizure does not hit, seizure activity (without body motion) can cause intense drowsiness, without warning.
It can cause muscles to weaken, without notice.
If you normally hold a young child, that can now also cause harm if you continue to push.
Please research "kindling" in regards to seizures. It's vital information.
For the next six months to a year, your brain may react differently than before. Be very careful.
Please consult with your LLMD about this, too, even if it seems a one time fluke. Your brain cells have learned something here and that "kindling" effect can be very persistent. A good doctor's assessment is best.
===========================
Essential oils are DISTILLED and each drop is highly concentrated. It can burn tender tissue in the mouth and the G.I. tract.
Essential oils are NOT for internal use.
They are not for application directly on the skin.
They are for Aromatherapy or topical application, diluted with a large amount of a neutral �carrier� oil, such as almond or jojoba oil.
Essential oils must be treated with respect for maximum safety.
Now, you will see some oils in a prepared formula by certain supplement companies. Mostly things like oregano oil, etc.
The difference in their being okay for internal use is that they are diluted by very specific measurements and they are supposed to go into a substantial amount of water. Even then, they may be too strong for some people.
When any supplement is misused, it also risks the availability of that supplements, and nearly all others for people who rely on these for their health.
It might just take one report for something to be banned. And those reports often don't consider the variables.
There are powerful forces in the U.S. now who would love nothing more than to ban all supplements. It's important to be responsible in how we proceed if we want to keep our freedom. -
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GiGi
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 259
posted
Are you paying attention to treating toxic heavy metals. Have you tested for KPU/HPU?
Get better!
Posts: 9834 | From Washington State | Registered: Oct 2000
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- GiGi makes excellent points about heavy metals and KPU.
It's important to know that - although 15 drops of sage oil might have been a huge hit to your brain & liver & adrenal system - the seizure might not have been from that, per se,
but that triggered an event that might have been building up.
TRIGGER and CAUSE are often not the same thing. Still, all volatile stuff and they can go hand in hand.
Please do explore KPU and heavy metal connections. And, please do stay safe. Seizures can escalate and it's a terrible path on which to find yourself. To a large degree, that might well be avoided with some investigation and education.
If your LLMD does not cover all these bases, find one who does (or a LL ND, etc.)
Good luck. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Yes I'm familiar with heavy metals and KPU.
And I'm not going to mess around with high dose Sage anymore.
Thanks for the help
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Good to hear.
I hope you will get some Arnica Montana (homeopathic pellets) to have on hand if you need it. Whomever you consult for this issue should know all about that and what strength to recommend for YOUR body.
For me, Arnica m. homeopathic pellets have helped tremendously to prevent the awful migraines that follow a seizure, and also help settle the adrenal shock.
Please read these articles as they hold a wealth of information that is not exactly about lyme but certainly relates to the neuro-excitatory and toxicity issues.
Great content here that is good for everyone, really.
What Are the Benefits of Magnesium for Epilepsy? - by Melissa Lingohr-Smith
Excerpt:
. . . the anticonvulsant effect of magnesium seems to block the activation of certain excitatory receptors in the brain. . . .
- full article at link above. -
[ 11-02-2011, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Keebler,
Why do you say it may take a week to recover?
I do still feel weird (wired brain) today.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Bump
Just wondering Keebs why it can take so long to recover from a sezure
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- What happens when your tender brain tissue gets hit by electrical lightening?
What happens when your body suffers a chemical assault?
What happens when all brain cells and body organs are hit with an assault, equal to being in a accident?
All that happened to you.
A week was an optimistic estimation. I've had some hits that took me months to get back to my normal - and some that seem to have caused permanent damage (mostly to my adrenals but also to cognition).
Are you taking some of the suggested supplements?
Especially FISH OIL & MAGNESIUM?
Drinking LOTS of water, eating excellent foods. Sardines are your best bet right now.
Are you resting, in the dark and quiet?
Not all seizures are due to Epilepsy and just one seizure does not constitute a diagnosis of Epilepsy. There can be a difference between Epilepsy and �Seizure Disorder� but that�s a bit complicated to discuss.
Seizures (or seizure-like activity) from lyme / TBD (tick-borne) or other chronic stealth infections can be from infection itself
- or from any of these connected organs or systems -
- and any of these organs or systems can also be damaged or stressed by a seizure:
-------------------------
Brain damage or brain dysfunction (which may or may not be directly related to lyme)
Nerve fiber damage or dysfunction in the brain, neck, eyes, ears, adrenals, etc.
Toxicity related (including heavy metals)
Liver or kidney damage from infection or toxins � or just overload to the organs of detoxification,
Circadian Rhythm being off-kilter; Lack of proper sleep, too much light in the eyes at the wrong time of day
Heart Rhythm irregularity (especially QT rhythm being out of synch),
Types of Seizures -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Oh, avoid ALL kinds of fluorescent / LED lights.
Use incandescent bulbs only.
This is very important to support healing. Also vital to help prevent further seizure activity.
Chances are that, with aggressive rest, excellent nutrition and healing activities, you will feel a bit better each day.
There could be any number of things going on with your body. Information I've offered has been from my own path and experiences - and study.
I also hope you will contact your LLMD. Seriously, whatever protocol you are on might need to be adjusted now that your body is different than it was before the seizure.
Remember, that many people suffer a single seizure at some time in their lives. Many never have another one. But lyme changes so much about the body so you have to be extra nurturing and careful.
GO BACK TO THE ARTICLES:
So as to keep computer light out of your eyes, please go back to those articles linked above.
PRINT OUT every one of them - and then read them. Each offers a wealth of detail and great suggestions.
VENTILATE your working space with fresh air before you turn on the printer and for 5 minutes afterward.
GAS STOVE; FURNACE?
And, oh, if you have gas heat or stove, open windows each day and air out the place - especially the top level of your home. The chemical mix from the gas rises to the upper level.
For gas stove top, use your ventilation fan BEFORE you turn on the burner and again just before you turn it back off. Most of the chemical "escape" is when turning on and off.
GO SCENT FREE; AVOID EXHAUST
You may be more affected by chemicals so it's wise to also go scent free and keep your distance from the back of other vehicles when (for now, only as a passenger) you are in a car.
ENJOY
I hope you find many things to enjoy and engage you this weekend. Just please, keep an even keel so your sails won't get burned by the sun or sloshed in the sea.
Whatever the weather, go outside and shine a little daylight onto your face, fresh air into your lungs . . . tune into good music (Mozart really is your brain's best friend - & Haydn) . . . and garner some laughs to get the good chemicals moving again.
Short walks near your home will help the nerve connections to strengthen. Some Tai Chi moves will, too.
Even as you lie low, you can still take in a lot of wonder. -
[ 11-05-2011, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- Just remembered this:
NO FLASHING :-)
Avoid ALL flashing lights right now, and that means avoiding any public place where someone may whip out a cell phone camera.
The flash could be a trigger. Now, this may not happen but - for at least a week or two - it is really important to not expose yourself to potential triggers.
You want to be in good enough shape for holiday photos - and to be able to go out and enjoy some of the celebrations. For, now, the better you treat your brain, likely, the better your holidays.
QEEG "Brain Mapping"
If anyone in your city does a QEEG, or a similar "Functional EEG" that might be a good test to have done.
Regular EEGs miss a lot but the QEEGs are often not covered by insurance. Functional EEG are usually covered but few doctors will go that extra mile (and you may have to first have a regular EEG).
A conversation with your LLMD should help guide you.
SLEEPY ?
For now, if you feel sleepy, REST. Don't fight it. Don't take stuff to boost anything. Your brain will need rest. Your whole adrenal / endocrine system, too.
WIRED ?
Do try to resist that. Don't let it run away with you as it can. Magnesium, Fish Oil, Liver & Adrenal support should help. -
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Thanks for all the info. My brain still feels fried
Ask Stephen Buhner on his Q&A site. I am sure he can help you to the next step. Dr. K. is out of the country or I would ask him. Binders to bind the toxins.
My guess is some colonics back to back. But I would rather ask an expert first.
Buhner is the man to ask. He has a Question and Answer section. Maybe you can find a phone number for him. planetthrive.com/category/experts/buhner/
Take care.
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I'm sorry to say but it's just likely going to be awful for a while. What you describe is very common for after a seizure.
Don't fight it. Focus on nourishing your body with good food, water and rest. Magnesium & Fish Oil.
That link that GiGi posted is very important detail. Your body will need time to work through this.
Your LLMD (and your GP, too) should be contacted on Monday morning. If there are any changes that warrant Urgent Care, of course, seek immediate help. But, again, what you describe is totally normal after-seizure results.
Be very kind to yourself for now. Be sure to find drivers / errand runners for yourself for the next week or so. Maybe someone would like to drive you to Orlando, eh?
I could not find through the web a naturopathic doctor in Daytona. However, I found someone who is both a MD and ND (naturopathic doctor) about 51 miles "as the crow flies" from where you live.
From what I see on their site, they should be able to help.
Contact information & map. Scroll down to see detail. -
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
I also think I have parasites in my brain.
For the last 2 weeks I could feel them scatter in the gut (from the herbs) and enter my brain and feet.
Sigh - this is just awful I truly feel like I'm dying - either from cancer or parasites or both. Too damn young Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- You don't have to die right now, really. I know it feels like you might, or wish you might.
Please call that Orlando doctor on Monday, okay? I'll bet he can help you sort all this out. For now, I hope your imagination can take you on some great excursion as you drift to sleep. -
[ 11-06-2011, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Keebler ]
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I hope you are feeling better today.
I'm not trying to scare you here - and I'm not trying to point a finger, either. Snippets below are to show my thought process in finally coming around to what should have been my first reply:
1) Contact the Poison Control Center.
2) Put the oil out of reach of any children who may be in (or visit) your home. Even if you don't have kids come around, putting it far out of reach right now will prevent any unforeseeable event should a child ever come around with a friend, etc.
Ditto for putting out of reach of all pets.
Even now, food or liquids you consume may need to be carefully selected for their acidic content or roughness in the gut / colon, etc.
There could be internal burning or other irritations to the lining of the G.I. tract. If compromised, that could cause internally bleeding. And that could be fatal.
There could be some reactions for other body organs or systems. I would avoid ALL supplements until you get medical advice.
When I read the part about "do not induce vomiting" that became clearer, the capacity of the oils to burn tissue. There are things about this that none of us may know.
Google Search of: "Poison control center" "Sage oil" -------------
I looked at a couple different brands of sage oil on the market. They all state similar cautions:
Sage Oil
Warning: Keep out of reach of children. Not to be used internally or topically. May be harmful if swallowed.
Consult poison control center or an emergency room immediately if accidentally consumed. This oil is for aromatherapeutic use only.
Natural essential oils are highly concentrated and should be used with care.
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