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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Babs Herx or Not ? Freezing cold to bone, Fever, Sweats, Abdominal Cramping.. Misery!

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Author Topic: Babs Herx or Not ? Freezing cold to bone, Fever, Sweats, Abdominal Cramping.. Misery!
lymetwister
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Was in the ER last night b/c my stomach and spine was hurting so bad. I had been shivering all day. Was cold in the hot bath tub. Heating blanket on me, ceramic heater, hot tea all day, still cold, but sweating at the same time.

Temp was 102 in ER, but WBC count was Normal as was Blood count.

Head is killing me too and some neuro symptoms are flaring too.

Was given 5mg of Morphine and the pain was still there, I was just able to deal with it better. Sent home and told to f/u with ID, but I'm just as sick today.

When I left the ER, the second I hit the cold outside, not only were my teeth chattering, but my entire body was shaking from the cold. Had to wait 10 min. for car to warm up for the shakes to all calm down.

I've been aching all over for 2 weeks now since getting on this Paleo diet and wondering if the body could be going after infections, specifically the Babs. Not sure if these are Babs die off symptoms or just Babs symptoms I have never had before. I have no Sinus congestion, ear pressure or fullness, no cough. Just flu symptoms one would have if they had a flu.

Thanks in advance..

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17hens
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Awww, Gary, I sure hope you feel better really soon. I wish I had something helpful to say.

--------------------
"My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." Psalms 73:26

bit 4/09, diagnosed 1/10

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seekhelp
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Gary, have you ever been tested for heavy metals?
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manybites
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NO way the diet is making you like that.Duncani activates everything and the rest exsplodes .My back pain reduced from Antiparasitic and BART treatment that lasted long enough to reduce the neuro problems but I kept feeling in the spine somthing build up slowly and some crawling.

It used to burn before but over time as I was treating it got better.I recall at my worst time MY SPINE WAS IN FIRE and brain swelling and neuro issues were worst ( 3 times in ER and 3 times 911 came at home and at my old job) .You need to take internally medications for babesia non stop and add HH ( for bart ) and than continued treatment with Bart that reduced the neuro issues and spine problems .

I was in remission but due to the car accident than the symtoms continued due to babs and still do ( it is been 4 years ) no kidding .I used to have epileptic eppisodes and shaking of the BODY .

Its the babs fighting you back if you are in the treatment.It fights you back while you kill it.The 3 times that I backed off almost killed me.Every time I was in high dosages to kill it I shaked and was afraid I was going to break my teeth.

You need to fight it to the end and not quit treatment.I sense revenge from the die off.You are lucky you do not have ear preassure and no cough and no fullness.I did when I was severely sick and in hospital where no IV was helping and duncani exsploded .YOu can bit it just keep treating and do not quit.It is going to take time.

Do you know if you have FRY bug too.Biaxin Plaquinil with mepron , artemisin ( alternatin with malarone ) did wonders for me so far.I was at least reducing this bug that makes the simptoms worst, as you reduce over time the coinfections Duncani will be easier to bit.I am still fighting it but have not been in ER since 1 and 1/2 year so far.

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lymetwister
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Back in the ER. Feels like I'm being stabbed in the stomach. Fever still at 102.0.

I'm not on any baba tx and haven't been. Yeah I need to start but the mess make my neuro so bad. So bad that I could land on the wrong floor. Lucky I have the fever for the ER staff.

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lymetwister
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Back in the ER. Feels like I'm being stabbed in the stomach. Fever still at 102.0.

I'm not on any baba tx and haven't been. Yeah I need to start but the mess make my neuro so bad. So bad that I could land on the wrong floor. Lucky I have the fever for the ER staff.

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seibertneurolyme
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Gary,

Sorry you are feeling so awful.

If you are not taking babesia meds or herbs then in my opinion you are probably having babesia symptoms plus maybe some ehrlichia symptoms as well. Sorry but I do not believe a change in diet can cause such severe symptoms. It might give you a headache or even widespread body inflammation, but I sincerely doubt that it would cause such an elevated temp.

Dr B told hubby many years ago that once you started treating babesia you just had to keep going -- not to stop treatment until it was gone. Hubby tried pulsing meds over the summer and it was obvious within just a few days that the babesia was still there and that the meds were just keeping the symptoms under control.

Currently I am adding back various herbs to hubby's protocol. It became obvious in December that the meds alone plus artemisinin were just not going to work.

Hubby is convinced that the ivermectin added to his other babs meds is helping his bloodwork -- his RDW goes down (still high) and his RBC and WBC both increase.Plus hemoglobin and hematocrit go up. Since he does weekly bloodwork we are able to chart things and see what makes a real difference. Don't know if the ivermectin is working on babs or whatever is attacking his WBC but at least it seems to slow down the hemolysis.

The only way hubby was ever able to get to killing doses on anything was to start low and slow and just keep adding in new meds and rotating out old ones. Sure he has had to back off treatments from time to time, but he is able to tolerate higher and higher doses and we are slowly making progress.

I know you have tried many things, but I also am convinced you have not had anywhere near enough meds to knock out babesia.

This is not medical advice, just my opinion based on hubby's experiences.

Bea Seibert

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lymetwister
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I hear u Bea but so many have poor detox like me w the dreaded HLA genotype. 5 days on meprobamate alone and I look like I belong in a psych ward. How do u push through that for 120 days or more without intubation and being in a coma.
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seibertneurolyme
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Ask them to admit you and give you IV clindamycin and oral quinine. I think in a hospital setting that would be safe and could go a long way towards convincing you that babesia is the real culprit here.

I so wish hubby still had his PICC line. I honestly think if we could have done a few more rounds of quinine and clindamycin in combo with the malarone and flagyl and artemisinin that might have actually gotten rid of the babs.

Or try to talk them into giving you lariam.

I would insist that they do a bloodslide for babesia. Of course they probably would not know what they were looking at at the hospital.

Now that you are so symptomatic is the best time to get positive test results.

The normal WBC and high fever are classic babesia symptoms.
Bea Seibert

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seibertneurolyme
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Gary I forget exactly which detox problem you have. Hubby does have a methylation problem but it is not real severe -- he controls it with high doses of B12, folinic acid and SAM-e.

If the meds are not an option then try some of the herbs -- but they will require very very high doses.

Cryptolepis is hard to come by right now, but you could try the sida acuta with something else such as turmeric or neem or noni for example.

Or try pulsing high dose malarone or lariam just a couple of times a week.

Bea Seibert

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seibertneurolyme
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Gary,

Hubby learned the hard way -- several ER visits -- that anything that affects the brain such as psychotropic meds, seizure meds, painkillers and prescription muscle relaxants just made things worse. For symptom control the only meds that he can tolerate are ativan and very low dose phenergan. Even zofran has caused adverse reactions in the past.

Herbs and nutritional supplements have been what has helped hubby cope. They work differently in the body and have much less chemical toxicity for the liver to detox.

I work really hard to limit the number of meds hubby is taking to 10 or less including symptom meds and hormone replacement meds such as armour thyroid and testosterone.

Bea Seibert

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lymetwister
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Bea, there is no doubt in my mind that all of this is the Babesia. again, the medications bring out severe neurological problems and that crazy shortness of breath.

The way I see it, I'm screwed either way. Look up HLA DR and "the dreaded".

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seibertneurolyme
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Have you ever tried IV glutathione or glutathione suppositories?

Bea Seibert

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manybites
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I agree that once you start treating babesia you need to continue but my llmd thought I have no babs and treated me for just 2 months instead of longer and the car accident sure brought it out.Now it has been 5 months that I am into treatment.Unnecessary torture and fighting for my life while babs was my culprit.She relied on my Cd57 that was high and only thoughts I might have Duncani that I feel that sick.
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lpkayak
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sounds like the old fashioned flu to me...but i felt like that recently when trying to get on welchol...so maybe it is a detox problem

i didnt have a flu cuz it wore off when i stopped the welchol

--------------------
Lyme? Its complicated. Educate yourself.

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nefferdun
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How are you feeling now? This virus has been plaguing me too. It was terrible. I hope you feel better soon.

I had bloating, gas, burning indigestion, pains, vomiting, headaches, extreme fatigue and now a low grade fever for days on end. I have molded into the cushions of the couch.

I am glad your ER doctor cleared up what it is because I was wondering myself.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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seibertneurolyme
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Any updates Gary?

Hubby decided you must really be one tough cookie if you were on the pc while in the ER with a fever of 102. At that temp he is usually in an altered state of consciousness.

Please do not ignore the fever. If it does not respond to advil or ibuprofen or tylenol as a last resort then go back to the ER or call them at the very least. If it really is the flu you should be able to lower your temp or you should be in the hospital.

A temp much above 102 is very dangerous in an adult and should never be ignored.

Bea Seibert

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Porsche
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The paleo diet is probably the worst diet for anyone with Babs and bart to be on if you are eating a lot of meats and nuts. Nuts and chocolate are the worst foods if you have Bart because they are high in Arginine.....mycoplasma love this amino acid also.

You could possibly have the Fry proto bug which loves fat of any kind. So yes, it could be the diet. Being off meds at the same time is a double whammy.

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springshowers
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Sorry to hear Gary..
I keep hearing though that you are jumping from one treating to another and you had just gotten through a huge over do of the rife.
Jumping in a strict diet like that is just too much again too fast.

All of what you do has to be worked up to in a slow methodical way and tracking how you are doing and going slow.

I just am concerned for you and I have seen other treatment options in the past where you have a kinda of black or white thinking model and I understand you want to do it right and be strict with yourself to get the results you feel you need.

But there are some people who are built up so deeply with the bugs and toxins that they just can not go for any treating with that sort of approach.

if you can even yourself out after this big episode what ever it is and I would get off that diet and just really evaluate where you are and how to get to a place where you can feel a baseline of what your illness is like and then choose one approach and go slow and stay in control and of that treatment.

I not trying to be negative and the contrary concerned for your safety and health. You can be actually putting yourself into these overload modes with nothing but good intentions but it happens.

I have been through that sort of thing and I kept being told to push through or stay strict or not take breaks or all the advise that those who detox and are clear enough in their bodies they can treat the disease that way.

I am saying this because I have been in both places. I have been where i can barely treat and then where I can do all those things that lots of people here advise and it works.

its two different worlds and you have to figure out your body and where you are and what you have to do.

If you do not do some slow trials and controlled trials that are very slow and deliberate I fear that you are going to keep going through these episodes where you doing nothing but suffering.

I have been where I barely could do any treatment no matter what it was and even detox and it just made me worse and worse and it has taken me years to figure that out and then a whole new approach to change my body and get to where i am not loaded up and filled with disease and toxins and all piled up to where I was not able to treat this disease at all.

I went through it for way too long before I started to listen to my own body and myself instead of all the advise I got from everyone else.

I know this is advise in itself.. Take it or leave it..

But I have also heard of many others who are like I was and who are like you are. Even though you seem to have unique symptoms overall I do think that its from the same problem and
remember the more you treat and can not detox it out then your adding it up and adding it up inside your body and making yourself worse and worse.

JMO

I could be wrong all.. And I though am worried if you do not slow down or back off and really take tiny steps til you can get your body to flow out those toxins as you treat those bugs then you can have a severe reaction worse than you are and you seem quite severe and i worry.

None of us know for sure one anothers issues but we can share and just hope that we are helping in some manner and giving out some info that will work or help or even save someone from suffering and getting worse too.

Blessings
and Hope your doing ok

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nefferdun
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I am better Gary. I finally got over it although it took a month. I hope you are ok. It is a bad one to have, especially on top of everything else.

--------------------
old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

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