LymeNet Home LymeNet Home Page LymeNet Flash Discussion LymeNet Support Group Database LymeNet Literature Library LymeNet Legal Resources LymeNet Medical & Scientific Abstract Database LymeNet Newsletter Home Page LymeNet Recommended Books LymeNet Tick Pictures Search The LymeNet Site LymeNet Links LymeNet Frequently Asked Questions About The Lyme Disease Network LymeNet Menu

LymeNet on Facebook

LymeNet on Twitter

The Lyme Disease Network receives a commission from for each purchase originating from this site.

When purchasing from, please
click here first.

Thank you.

LymeNet Flash Discussion
Dedicated to the Bachmann Family

LymeNet needs your help:
LymeNet 2020 fund drive

The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations.

LymeNet Flash Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Worse before better? Or just getting worse?

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Worse before better? Or just getting worse?
Member # 28909

Icon 1 posted      Profile for phorts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I feel like so much of our healing rests on faith. 1. we must have faith and believe that our diagnosis is accurate and 2. that the healing path we've chosen is working.

I have a story similar to most folks here. Years and years of un/misdiagnosed suffering. Diagnosed w/ Lyme Nov '10. Tried 3 different courses of heavy Abx w/ no effect. Went the herbal route and am currently on just Teasel (3 drops 3x/day) along with w/ the std supplements.

My state of health has been slowly, but continually getting worse each and every day, and this has been the case since day 1. Every day i learn to accept a new threshold of misery.

I feel the immediate impact when i take the teasel. All of my neurological symptoms get worse within minutes. To me, i see this as that things are working and moving around. I mean, would an otherwise healthy person react in any way to Teasel tincture?

I keep telling myself that, eventually, things are going to start getting better. But, i cant escape that lingering feeling that maybe things arent getting worse before they're getting better....maybe they're just getting...worse, as they always have.

I keep telling those close to me that i'm not sure how much worse it can get before i'm not able to function in life. Caring for my yound daughter and being there for her. Holding my job, keeping a marriage happy and, god forbid, enjoying life! And then it gets worse....and it continues to take everything i have to get through each and every day....just surviving.

So, sorry for the rant. I read a lot of depressed cries for help on these and other forums and, I empathize with you all.

Things will get better, right?

Posts: 47 | From NH | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol in PA
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 5338

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol in PA     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Originally posted by phorts:

All of my neurological symptoms get worse within minutes.

Okay, it's doing something.
So what are you doing for liver support?
Liver support means providing the liver with the things it needs to make glutathione.

When the Lyme bacteria die, what's left behind is stuff that is neurotoxic, or poison to the nerves.
Many of the Lyme symptoms are due to this.

Other symptoms may be due to nutritional deficiencies, which happen because the intestines do not absorb what we need, or to the immune system reacting.

The liver makes glutathione and neutralizes the poisons, which go into the bile and then into the intestines, where the bile helps to digest fats.

Liver support:
Fish oil
Milk thistle, sylmarin
CoEnzyme Q10
Acetyl l-carnitine
Alpha Lipoic Acid
N-acetyl cysteine

You can take glutathione directly, but I don't think it makes it through the digestive system.
The liver does better when it's provided with the right constituents.

Posts: 6940 | From Lancaster, PA | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 25251

Icon 1 posted      Profile for BoxerMom     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
phorts - It's been ages! Good to hear from you. Sorry the circumstances aren't so great.

Many questions:

What is a round of antibiotics? How many months? How many abx at one time?

What is your co-infection status? Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella are practically guaranteed, plus parasites, viruses, etc. Have you tested and/or treated for these?

Did you feel better or herx on the abx?

Do you have a good LL doc, who has helped many patients achieve remission? No good Lyme doc would let you decline each month!

3 drops 3x/day of teasel is not enough to make significant progress. These microbes will multiply faster than you can kill them. You may be responding to it for several reasons. You could be killing the most vulnerable pathogens, but not making a dent in the overall population. You could be reacting to the alcohol. You could be having a detox reaction.

It takes most of us years to notice big upward trends in our health. Yes, we herx, and some symptoms may improve, but significant gains that last can take several years of consistent abx, herbs, supps, and detox.

I'm going to ask that this be moved to Medical Questions for more responses.

 - Must...find...BRAIN!!!

Posts: 2867 | From Pacific NW | Registered: Apr 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Member # 743

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Lymetoo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Moving to Medical Questions

Opinions, not medical advice!

Posts: 94961 | From Texas | Registered: Feb 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Member # 28909

Icon 1 posted      Profile for phorts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks for the replies and thanks for moving this over to med questions.

Carol - I am taking only Fish Oil from that list. I do have Alpha Lipoic Acid but havent been taking it. I had CoQ10 at one point but ran out. I'm also taking Vitamins B and D and VSL#3.

I suppose i wanted to see what straight Teasel did for me, i've been on it 3 months straight now at this dose. I, like most of us, have spent endless hours researching, reading, talking to others, etc and intuitively feel like this is a good path. I also have an herbal supplement that includes Cats Claw, Andrographis and other Lyme herbs but i Herx pretty badly on those so i wanted to back off and take it slow with the teasel to first help clear the detox pathways. Only other thing i do is drink water like it's my job.

I should do more to support the detox process, i know. Any recommendations on the best way to do that in your experience?

hi Boxer! Yes, it's certainly been some time. Lots has changed in my life (Married, child, new job) but no, the health has not improved at all, unfortunately. I'm pretty sure i posted my history and initial trials with Rx on here somewhere, but in the interest of this post, i'll try to recall the basics.

My trials w/ Abx were all orals, 2 at a time and for at least 3 months (one was for 5 months). It was originally clinically diagnosed with Bartonella, due to the heavy neuro symtoms so we started with a Bart protocol, then Lyme, then back to Bart. It had no adverse effects on me, good or bad. No Herx, no improvement, no symptoms of any kind really.

A year later i visited w/ my Integrated Med Doc and we were looking at some old reports from Dr Ritchie Shoemaker from when we first met (Pre-Lyme Dx, I was there because i had severe mold poisoning from my home). I went through the process of getting a consult with him which involved some genetic testing. RIGHT on the page, in my Dr's handwriting were her notes from Dr Shoemaker "Will not get better w/ Abx if contracts lyme". I can explain more in another forum, but it shook me and told me i needed to jounrney to the herbal/hollistic realm.

I saw an Herbalist who specializes in helping Lymies get into remission and has reportedly helped hundreds, including himself. He studied w/ Dr Buhner (albeit not when he was focused on Lyme and writing his book) but he's extremely knowledgeable, friendly and i felt comfortable. I started on his Rx and immediately herxed (swollen glands esp in throat, bad neuro symptoms, the works). After a lot of research i figured it was the Lyme trying to get out, but my pathways were so clogged up that i was killing them off faster than my body could rid them.

Hence the Teasel.

I want to work my way up to eventually take the Herb Protocol again, but i feel like if i start that i'm not going to be in very good shape for god knows how long. As it is, i'm avoiding everything possible and barely making it through the day...

Hence the post [Smile]

Thanks again for any insight and hope everyone is moving in a positive direction....

Posts: 47 | From NH | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 20157

Icon 1 posted      Profile for nefferdun     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
phorts, look at the MTHFR thread. This might be what is standing in your way, if you have a lot of trouble tolerating antibiotics. The fact that you know you cannot detox well also points to this mutation.

Before I would have told you not to give up, to try other drugs and just push yourself through it - but I know better now. As one quarter of the population is affected by this mutation, it just makes sense that you could be one of them.

Do not vaccinate your child until you know she/he does not have this mutation. 98% of autistic children have it.

old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot

Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Member # 28909

Icon 1 posted      Profile for phorts     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thanks neffer, but i dont think thats the case as its not that i dont tolerate abx, i have no reaction to them whatsoever. Ive only had responses from herbs.

My fear is that im getting worse and that either im not treating the disease properly or i dont have it to begin with. I know treatment takes time, but i can ill afford to feel any worse than i do, and it scares me to death to think that i could continue on this path for many months or years and its not the right diagnosis or treatment. I need confirmation and some way of comfirming progress/results. I think what i really need is a great LLD.

I posted in the seeking lld section. I live in NH. I feel like i need a miracle at this point.

Posts: 47 | From NH | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
Member # 11290

Icon 1 posted      Profile for randibear     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
i think we all could have written your post.

i'm sorry to see you here, heck, i'm sorry to see anyone here.

i hope you get better.

don't know much about teasel tho.

do not look back when the only course is forward

Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator

Quick Reply

HTML is not enabled.
UBB Code is enabled.

Instant Graemlins

Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | LymeNet home page | Privacy Statement

Powered by UBB.classic™ 6.7.3

The Lyme Disease Network is a non-profit organization funded by individual donations. If you would like to support the Network and the LymeNet system of Web services, please send your donations to:

The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey
907 Pebble Creek Court, Pennington, NJ 08534 USA

| Flash Discussion | Support Groups | On-Line Library
Legal Resources | Medical Abstracts | Newsletter | Books
Pictures | Site Search | Links | Help/Questions
About LymeNet | Contact Us

© 1993-2020 The Lyme Disease Network of New Jersey, Inc.
All Rights Reserved.
Use of the LymeNet Site is subject to Terms and Conditions.