posted
Something I would like to share about vitamin C:
There is something tricky about vitamin C. It has so many functions and aspects that there is much misunderstanding about it.
What helps to clear the complicated picture is to realize that most wild animals make their own ascorbic acid (AA) internally in large quantities, on top of the small amounts they get from food sources.
Although we humans have a comparable biological system, we have lost the possibility to make our own ascorbic acid, along the way of our evolution. Of the four genes that are necessary to make the four enzymes to create ascorbic acid from bloodsugar, one gene is messed up. So three steps work fine but the fourth fails and so we are left with a vulnerable system.
The wild animal turns the inner production of ascorbic acid up, when there is a need for it. The production can be about 10 grams a day when there is no challenge and can come up to 90 grams a day in case of infection, injury or stressful situation.
An infection or intoxication in a human being eats up the available AA in the blood, as can be seen by the lowering of the bloodlevel of AA in most chronic diseases.
In the wild animal however, the production of AA gets turned on when trouble arises and instead of a fall in AA level, a rise will occur.
If you consider this function in the wild animal and the enormous quantities of AA it can produce, it can become clear that when we become faced with multiple infections like Borrelia and co., bloodlevels of AA will drop significantly and we are with too little defense against the micro-organisms.
Conclusion: If we want to fight Borrelia and co. we need at least an IV of high dose vit. C a day for a longer period of time, because as long as the IV runs bloodlevels are high and when it is finished the level will fall down again.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
In "Amalgam Illness," Andrew Hall Cutler says that the reason to administer vitamin C intravenously is that absorption from the gut is limited. Small amounts of vitamin C are absorbed efficiently but large amounts are not. Even taking extremely large amounts of vitamin C orally, people absorb more or less 5 grams of it in a day. If it is administered intravenously, this will lead to dramatically higher tissue concentrations.
IV drips are safe in most instances and can be done at a medical office. These drips typically contain 20-50 grams of vitamin C. The main risk aside from bungling are that repeated IVs of large amount of vitamin C (e.g. >50g) appear to carry a small risk of kidney stones.
Posts: 705 | From WA state | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by lymenotlite: The main risk aside from bungling are that repeated IVs of large amount of vitamin C (e.g. >50g) appear to carry a small risk of kidney stones.
Hello, please explain "bungling". It appears that the formation of kidney stones has never been confirmed scientifically.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by jlp38: If I could get one everyday, I would. Love them!
Yes, that would be best. Please tell why you love them so much.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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lymeboy
Unregistered
posted
Oral Liposomal C does not absorb more than 5 Grams?
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quote:Originally posted by lymeboy: Oral Liposomal C does not absorb more than 5 Grams?
Lypo-Spheric Vitamin C is a different story. A completely new nano technique. Not much research available about it. Expensive as well.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by jlp38: They reduce the swelling and pain in my joints, and clear my head making me able to think clearer, have more energy and lift depression.
Unfortunately, they have not been a cure for me. Great symptom relief though.
I wonder how many, how often or how much did you have?
For Vitamin C to be a cure it all depends on dose and frequency. This is true for all infectious diseases. Much experience with this has been years ago. If levels in the blood are not kept high enough for a prolonged period of time, then vitamin C is just that: Symptom relief.
It is the same for any antibiotic, if you miss too many doses, it will not work.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
My most important source of information is the following book by Thomas Levy MD, JD:
Vitamin C, Infectious Diseases and Toxins.Curing the Incurable: This book is more than 400 pages on how vitamine C plays a crucial role in sickness and health of the human being.
Or the way it is expressed on the cover of the book:
"Review for yourself the incredible evidence that clearly reveals:
-How vitamin C has been able to cure or contribute to the cure of many common infectious diseases, including the deemed incurable such as hepatitis and polio. Because of these documented effects, the use of properly dosed vitamin C within a comprehensive treatment protocol can also eliminate the need for many vaccinations and toxic prescription medicines.
- That vitamin C is the treatment of choice for many potentially fatal toxins and other toxic medical conditions that poison the body, for which no effective treatments presently exist. This makes vitamin C the ideal treatment for many infectious diseases that also produce highly toxic poison and the associated toxic by-products of some microbial metabolism."
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
I have read that book. I believe some examples in the book mention doing 2-3 high dose IVs in a day. I have not done that. I have done 75 g, 3x per week. Maybe that still wasn't enough. What do you think?
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
Even if you could afford it, where would you be able to get that many IVs in a day?
Posts: 147 | From youngstown | Registered: Oct 2011
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quote:Originally posted by jlp38: I have read that book. I believe some examples in the book mention doing 2-3 high dose IVs in a day. I have not done that. I have done 75 g, 3x per week. Maybe that still wasn't enough. What do you think?
Hello jlp38, I think that it was a good try, but not often enough. As with any other antimicrobial therapy, you dont want to give the bad bugs a day to recover from the blow you have given them. One day, on one day off doesn't seem very logical as there is also a rebound effect, meaning the second day vitamin C level can be slightly lower than initially.
50 grams a day seems something to try.
How did it get to 75 grams though, was that still comfortable or did you have a 1 ltr. bottle?
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by outerspace1226: Even if you could afford it, where would you be able to get that many IVs in a day?
Hello outerspace, vitamin C pharmaceutical grade is not very expensive. What you need is some initiative of your own.
You need a doctor who is willing to guide you and provide the necessary materials and you need a trained nurse or at least someone with a license to perform the placing of the needle. That way you can bring the price down to a reasonable level.
You need a qualified health practitioner to be your partner in this. Also it is advisable to buy the book of Dr. Levy in order to know the different ins en outs.
The protocol is to be found on the net. It's not rocketscience but it has to be done the proper way with all necessary precautions.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
Cost was definitely a factor. At $180 a pop, 3x a week was a huge stretch. Plus my doc is only open 4 days per week. Yes, I used a larger bag for the 75 g.
Have you tried doing the IVs at home? I know Levy makes it sound simple but we couldn't make it work.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
Member # 22149
posted
Norman Cousins cured himself of a "no known cure collagen disease."
He wrote a book about it (Anatomy of an Illness)
Used laughter and IV Vit C to cure himself and go back to work.
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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sparkle7
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Member # 10397
posted
Interesting. Some people here are making their own liposomal vit. C using an ultrasonic cleaner. I have read that this can be better than an IV & alot less expensive. I'm going to look into this soon.
I'll post the info again about how to make liposomal vit. C when I locate it later - or maybe someone else can post it...?
The only thing I have a question with is which wild animal is the author referring to? I'm sure different animals have different requirements for vit. C. Sort of vague... We may not need the same thing as a tree frog or racoon.
Posts: 7772 | From Northeast, again... | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Almost all animals create their own C, in differing amounts depending on their need. Guinea pigs are one of the only ones besides humans who dont create their own c. That is precisely why we use them as "guinea pigs" - because it's so easy to make them sick - and then we can experiment to figure out how to heal them.
Posts: 707 | From Colorado | Registered: Jul 2010
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posted
It's the goat that creates more than 12 grams of vitamin C a day while others somewhat less. But when the goat gets stressed, infected or injured, it appears that it can go up to more than 90 grams per day. It weighs about 70 kilo's.
Lower animals create vit. C in their kidneys while higher animals do so in the liver. Monkeys have the same problem as human's and cavia's, reason why they are also often used in research, because you can easily give them a human disease by infecting them.
The other way around is that most wild animals can't be made sick so easily because they simply increase their inner production of vit c in order to heal themselves. Seems like a good example to follow...
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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jackie51
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posted
Goats are related to deer. I wonder what the level of vitamin C is in all the deer around where I live. Maybe that is why they aren't all sick and dying with over 100 ticks on them.
Posts: 1374 | From Crazy Town | Registered: Dec 2007
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quote:Originally posted by jlp38: Cost was definitely a factor. At $180 a pop, 3x a week was a huge stretch. Plus my doc is only open 4 days per week. Yes, I used a larger bag for the 75 g.
Hello jlp38, with this kind of prices you are almost forced to find an alternative way to do it, plus the limitation of 4 days a week is another reason. Particularly because the IV is to be done as a chain, meaning at least every day.
quote: Have you tried doing the IVs at home? I know Levy makes it sound simple but we couldn't make it work.
Best is to have your or another doctor cooperate to help you set it up at home, with a nurse to do the precious moment of hooking you up. It seems the most logical, practical thing to do. If everyone gets reasonable about pricing, this way you could create a comfortable affordable cure at home. What did not work in your situation?
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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posted
In order to find an explanation of why vitamin C has such an uplifting effect I have found this text by Thomas Levy, MD, JD, in his book vitamin C, Infectious Diseases & Toxins:
�In addition to the potent antioxidant, reducing ability of vitamin, which accounts for a great deal of its antimicrobial clinical effects, vitamin C has been observed to have many other positive effects as well. Many other antioxidants simply cannot accomplish what vitamin C does in the biological system. Some of the mechanisms contributing to vitamin C's potent antimicrobial effects likely include the following:
1 - Enhancement of interferon production. Interferons are naturally produced antiviral glycoproteins. Interferons are produced by cells that get infected with a virus and they subsequently increase the resistance of nearby cells to virus attack.
2 - Enhancement of phagocyte function. A phagocyte is the kind of white blood cell that ingests microorganisms and infection related cellular debris.
3 - Selective concentration of vitamin C in white blood cells. Some of the primary cells in the immune system concentrate vitamin C as much as 80 times higher than the level in plasma. This assures extra delivery of vitamin C to the sites of infection by the migration of the vitamin C-rich white blood cells�
To be continued.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by jackie51: Goats are related to deer. I wonder what the level of vitamin C is in all the deer around where I live. Maybe that is why they aren't all sick and dying with over 100 ticks on them.
There's a fairly/very good chance to that.
Goats don't get sick from Q-fever. Its the people in the wide surroundings who get sick and some of them even die from it. Then the goats get eliminating because humans get ill by lack of vitamin C. This doesn't sound right, does it?
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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"Some of the mechanisms contributing to vitamin C's potent antimicrobial effects likely include the following:
- 4 -Enhancement of cell-mediated immune response. Cell mediated immune respons refers to the T-lymphocytes and how active they are in attacking a given infectious agent.
- 5 -Enhancement of cytokine production by white blood cells. Cytokines are nonantibody proteins released by certain white blood cells that serve as intercellular mediators or agents, in the generation of an immuneresponse.
- 6 -Inhibition of certain forms of T-lymphocyte death. T-lymphocytes are an integral part of the immune sytem; increasing their numbers and viability strongly supports the function of the immune system.
- 7 -Enhancement of nitric oxide production by phagocytes. Nitric oxide is produced in large amounts in white bloodcells and is one of the agents that will kill invading microorganisms. (Like Borrelia and co.)
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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feelfit
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 12770
posted
There is a doctor in Florida who treats both Lyme and mold illness with high dose IV vitamin C daily for 4 or more weeks along with a few oral supplements
"Some of the mechanisms contributing to vitamin C's potent antimicrobial effects likely include the following:
- 8 - Enhancement of antibody production and complement activity. Good antibody function is important to combat both infections and toxins. The complement system is a complex group of proteins that interact to kill targeted cells and mediate other functions of the immune system.
- 9 - Enhancement of natural killer activity. Natural killer cells are small lymphocytes that can directly attack cells, such as tumor cells, and kill them.
- 10 - Enhancement of prostaglandin formation. Prostaglandins are potent mediators of a variety of physiologic processes, including the regulation of T-lymphocyte function.
- 11 - Detoxification of histamine. This antihistamine effect of vitamin C is important in the support of local immune factors.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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quote:Originally posted by jackie51: Goats are related to deer. I wonder what the level of vitamin C is in all the deer around where I live. Maybe that is why they aren't all sick and dying with over 100 ticks on them.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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susank
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 22150
posted
I have been researching Vitamin C. Seems I have read that it can increase levels of IGG. Which would be great. If unable to do/get IV VC - how best to take orally to try for the same effect?
-------------------- Pos.Bb culture 2012 Labcorp - no bands ever Igenex - Neg. 4 times With overall bands: IGM 18,28,41,66 IND: 23-25,34,39 IGG 41,58 IND: 39 Bart H IGG 40 Posts: 1613 | From Texas | Registered: Aug 2009
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posted
Hi Susan, I guess it will never be as good as IV, but you can take as much powder as your intestins can handle. Titrating to bowel tolerance it seems to be called by some like Cathcart. And there is an excellent choice for a daily intake, a chewable wafer with vitamin C (sodium ascorbate & ascorbic acid). Mixed fruit. 100% Natural. By Natural Factors.
Very beneficial because by chewing a lot of vitamin C is immediately absorbed by the mucous membranes into the bloodstream.
Delicious also. Probably much better than just swallowing.
-------------------- "They that are whole have no need for the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance"(Mark 2.17) Posts: 149 | From Amsterdam | Registered: Jul 2011
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