Topic: How can you tell the difference between a herx and drug side effects?
Maya12
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Also what are the symptoms of a herx? Can a herx make any of your existing symptoms worse? For example if the Lyme and cos have made you feel out of it and irritable and anxious can a sign of a herx be a worsening of these symptoms?
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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For me, that is the million dollar question!
Yes, symptoms become worse or even new symptoms surface with a herx. We need to make sure we are detoxing enough to counteract the herx.
Some herxes are really miserable. I think we also need to determine if the bad ones are related to medication side effects instead. Our dr. tests regularly for metabolic panel.
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Maya12
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Can a herx cause a flare in mental symptoms or brain fog and feeling out of it? I also feel exhausted as if half asleep or drunk and just emotionally kind of numb and stupid even slurring words more, is this a herx?
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Maya12
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I also feel really down and sad is this a herx? How long do most have to treat before they feel any improvement ?
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Herxing is different for everyone. It depends on what drug is hitting what and when.
A herx will make you sick usually. And remember if your llmd hasn't told you, if you start herxing too hard, ease up on what you are taking until the herx passes.
You want to kill the buggers, not you!
Usually your personal herx will be an intensified icky of things you feel now. And yes, sometimes new things arise. Watch for a herx every 4 days or every 7 days, 4 weeks.....
If you're taking all those drugs that you've listed in other posts, you will feel like crap soon if you're taking them all at once.
Watch the flagyl if it makes tingling in your legs... it can do nerve damage. If it starts, let your llmd know and don't take it until talking to him again.
My herx's always hit my spinal fluid and brain. I even test positive for viral menningitis when I get a bad one. So painful feels like my brain is swelling and needing to pop. Again, everyone is different in how we herx.
The serverity depends on how 'much' you have to kill.... and each herx in time and treatment should get 'lighter'.... but again, not always..!!
Now, Stress about all of this, can send you into a herx too... try to relax as much as possible with positive thoughts and not worry so much... stress is not a good thing!
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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nefferdun
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It is really hard to tell what is a herx when the side effects of the drug are similar to the disease you are treating. People often experience severe depression when they start mepron. Is it a herx or a side effect? Maybe both.
The anti-malarial drugs hit me really hard emotionally. I can also get headaches and dizziness. As long as it is not too bad I try to push through it. I could never figure out a cycle with babesia or bart to help me understand patterns.
When I first started treating borellia, the pain throughout my body intensified. It felt like a battle ground. I had a lot of twitching and tingling. It cycled every 28 days exactly with the full moons, so I knew what was happening and never confused it with side effects.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Maya12
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The only thing I am worried about is one: I started planquinil last night and today my eyes are a bit off but then I also have this symptom as part of my Lyme and co. Also can any of the emotional or mental side effects of these drugs ie planq or flagyl be permenant?
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Maya12
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So I am assuming though tha feeling really down and flat and sad and cold , tired out of it and just yucky could be a herx and not side effects from the planquenil? Does this sound like a herx type reaction?
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Maya12
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I just feel totally physically and emotionally empty . How long will a herx last
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Maya, we are all different in how we herx. You could experience a 4 day herx or a 1 day, or a few hours herx. There is no set time frame for any of this.
I will say, for me, usually after the first day of pills, it didn't hit me for a week, not the next day. But we're all different.
Please try not to worry and try and 'live' through this. You can't let this 'rule' your life for every hour of the day. Don't let it get to you like that.
Tell yourself that this is a good thing treating this. You will get through this. Any cancer patient doesn't look forward to chemo, and we don't look forward in this treatment either. But... we all get through it.
You're on the right track... try and not focus every minute on this. Let your mind do and think of other things. If this consume's you, it has won. You can win over IT!!
-------------------- Lyme, Babs, Fry Bug..... Whatever it is, may a treatment be discovered to make us all whole again! Posts: 941 | From AZ-MT | Registered: Oct 2004
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Maya12
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You guys are all right on what you are saying I think I will just go home take a hot bath with some lemon green tea and try to relax with my husband. And though it is scarry and feels crappy I should just stick with treatment and will eventually feel better . Dam Lyme anxiety
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Maya12
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The only other question I have though is I assume it is normal to feel pretty crappy for a while at the start of treatment but how long does it take to start noticing improvements?
I just feel so nutts right now and so strange and out of it . Ocd is bad right now from herx i think And can you detox too much
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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It is so hard to not be anxious in all of this..i've started about a week ago and i'm feeling horrible, so of course it does consume you and the worry sets in! But i will win over it!
Posts: 3 | From Malvern, pa | Registered: Dec 2011
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Maya I don't have vast experience but I think I just came put of a 4 day Herx that happened sort of text book like on day four of new abx
Everything was worse physically for two days then two days of irritability sadness. I wanted to cry or punch somebody I have lots of neuro sx like you.
On biaxin in march it wasnt so textbook. I think I herxed or reacted yo biaxin for the entire three weeks I was on it. It never varied or got better
I hope you are ok
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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Maya12
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So is it that I should start feeling better in a week? I just feel so crappy all the time just a bit worse now than before abx how do you judge a herx if you already feel crappy all the time is it that you just return to a baseline? Or improve ? I thought it could take months for improvement
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Maya12
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Just seems like my normal horrid mental sx are worse. If you have lots of mental and cog sx like confusion and panic I am assuming a herx makes these worse. I feel psycho but normally feel this way just worse today
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Maya12
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Really my neuro and mental sx are the Same today as always just worse
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Maya12
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Has anyone else had bad neuro or mental herxes?
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Maya12, sorry you're feeling so bad.. it does pass. I felt reeeally horrible on flagyl. It made me very very depressed-sometimes numb, something the teary kind...and nobody around me understood. Think I might try Tindamax next time around. Hope it gets better for you, it definitely will as your body adjusts to the meds!
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nefferdun
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Maya, I had a horrible emotional herx about five days ago. I was hysterical and my husband had to calm me. I felt like I was completely out of it and was terrified that I might stay like that. By afternoon, the worst of it was over. I am fine right now.
I did quit that drug though. It was just too much for me. I read when you take it for malaria, you only get 5 doses. I had 7 so maybe that was enough. I think it made a difference but I would never do it again.
If you think something is too much, quit it. I could not tolerate plaquenil or flagyl. I took levaquin when I was experiencing pain and developed tendonitis. You can quit and then try it again later if you need to. Don't go past your limit.
-------------------- old joke: idiopathic means the patient is pathological and the the doctor is an idiot Posts: 4676 | From western Montana | Registered: Apr 2009
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Maya I did feel that way on biaxin went off because it wasn't a true llmd who prescribed it and I had anappt with one shortly after that. Yes yes yes bad neuro herxes. Just as you describe.
Do you have the energy to write this down? When is your next appt with llmd?
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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Maya12
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Will this pass though I have only been on meds for 2 days and I certainly don't want to give up yet
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Maya12
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Isnt it good that I am herxing even though I feel like crap cause it is doing something? Is it normal to feel this crappy when starting all these new meds?
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Maya. I think it will pass it stinks. It is awful. Plus your brain if it is anything like mine can't get a good perspective on things because it is affected by the Herx. It is crazy. Try to look forward. You are on the right track and have been strong enought o survive all that you have so far. Keep it up.
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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Maya12
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Thanks pme I have got to assume that when you start killing all this crap for the first time you do feel like crap for a while. How many felt like total crap when you first started treatment And how long did it take to feel any better ? I have got to stick with it . My llmd has treated many and gotten them well so I guess I need to stick with it and try to ride it out. Isn't it normal to feel crappy for a while when first starting meds?
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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I am in my 3rd month of treatment, and I have just the past week felt like maybe the herx symptoms are lessening some.
Only little changes though so far. Yesterday, I had a couple of hours when my mind felt nearly normal. I haven't had the bad crying jags and unstable emotions for a few days now.
I seem to be sleeping more like 12 hours than the 18 or so a day I was since I started meds on 2/1/12. So, I am hoping my herxing will settle into a cycle now rather than be consistent and non-stop for so long.
I started with a lot of meds too, so I have been assuming that is why I've felt so much worse during the herxing time.
LLMD put me on Ceftin, Biaxin, and Tindamax pulsed each two weeks--pretty brutal. But I want the buggers dead. I realize too that the more attention to detox, the better I feel.
I understand all of your questions, Maya, I've been asking them for three months. For me it came down to two choices: a) push through and keep killing and detoxing, or b) go slower on the abx, kill more slowly but feel better doing it.
Right now, I'm still pushing through. Best to you; hang in there.
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Maya12
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Can feeling really depressed and sad be part of a herx ? I started planquenil on Monday and clarithromycin last night
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Maya. I am certain that depression and sadness can be part of a Herx. So can anger. I felt like punching somebody the other day. I am normally very laid back. It is very disconcerting.
Also I wanted to cry for days but no tears would come out. I wanted to get them out....they just wouldn't come.
Made me want to punch somebody all the more! But I didn't!
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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momlyme
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Coca pulse test: take resting pulse rate several times a day. The lowest pulse rate is what you use. If pulse doesn't go up, you are not allergic. With a herx the pulse doesn't go up. With allergies the pulse does go up.
Toxic mold was suppressing our immune systems, causing extreme pain, brain fog and magnifying symptoms. Four days after moving out, the healing began. Posts: 2007 | From NY/VT Border | Registered: Aug 2010
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Maya12
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Thanks for this test so if you are already on meds how would you know if you are allergic is it that the pulse will fluctuate a lot if allergic ?
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Maya12
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Well I have tested my pulse 3 times in about 4 hours and it goes from about 102 to 104 and to 100 is this indicative of an allergic reaction ?
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Maya12
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Ok so I am on planquenil and clarithromycin and feeling super out of it as if I don't know what I am even saying or doing, what do I do? Is this a herx or drug reaction , I am really scared feel almost psychotic like i am losing touch with reality. Also have other symptoms too right now but these are the worst. What do I do? Please help. Just started these meds Monday and tues.
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Maya12
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Right now I also have chills , headache , diarrhea, tremors and feel really confused, and have some shooting pains and feel very weepy and neck pain is this a herx?
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Maya12
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Please give me some guidance about what to do
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Maya12
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What does planquenil hit?
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Maya12
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Please can someone give me some guidance is this normal to feel this bad at the start, I am really scared
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-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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Maya12
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I think I am gonna back off on the planq for a few days and see how I feel NAND then add it back in
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Maya12
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Hey guys thanks for all your help and encouragement, I am still on the planq and clarithromycin but seem to be doing a bit better tonight.
I think I was in a reproduction phase of the Lyme when I started the abx and it hit me like a tonn of bricks. I definatly do have the 4 week cycle and I was definatly in that cycle when I started the abx so I guess I just hit them at the best but worse time for herxing massively.
My mood is a bit better tonight and brain clearer than the last few days.
Still feel really Rockey like I could get bad at any time again but just having a good dinner and relaxing.
Do most still feel quite vulnerable and Rockey after a bad herx and of course still having all infections I feel moody and mood swings a lot anyway. Does this eventually go away?
Main thing is I am feeling a bit better tonight
Also anyone know if herxing can make you itchy? I have heard that this is from the liver being overloaded which I am sure it is.
I am trying to do as much As I can to detox but has anyone ever used bentonite clay? Can you ever detox too much?
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Maya12
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Up
Posts: 1632 | From Canada | Registered: Feb 2012
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Glad you are feeling better. Have you spoken with your llmd about how badly you have felt? Take care of yourself. Hang in there.
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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