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» LymeNet Flash » Questions and Discussion » Medical Questions » Best herbals for Bart

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Author Topic: Best herbals for Bart
Maya12
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A whole bunch of people have told me about a bunch of diff herbals to take for Bart but I am really confused and wondering or looking for help on the best herbs for bart that will kill it a bit before I start on recfinpin in 2 months.

I really appreciate the help of everyone so far like many bites and canefan just really confused and want to see what everyone has to say and help me be less confused

Also looking for info on whether these supps can be taken with abx

Is bruhners book a good start?

Could you please tell me the best supp to kill Bart

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Maya12
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Does anyone mind helping me sort out what herbals are best for Bart. I have already gotten some good suggestions but trying to wrap my brain around this and looking for what herbals are good to kill bart
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LymeMECFSMCS
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The best herb by far in my opinion is houttuynia. It's used in HH Capsules for bart, but you can also just buy the powdered herb in bulk and put it in capsules.

I didn't find Buhner's herbs for bart very helpful. Knotweed seems like a good assistant to houttuynia, but houttuynia is the one bart herb that has really made me herx and helped clear symptoms.

Nutramedix Banderol produces a very mild herx for me for bart, so I supplement with that too.

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Maya12
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Hey thanks for the suggestion where can I get hh caps or where do most people purchase this herb and how much do you have to take to hit Bart?

I also got some reversatrol

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Maya12
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If I was to get hh caps can they be taken with abx?

Also if I was to take this is there any way that it could make Bart abx treatment less effective later on? Ie produce a resistance to Bart

Also is there anything that has to be taken with this to avoid any resistance to Bart?

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Keebler
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-
It's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -

- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present.
-----------------------

http://flash.lymenet.org/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/2/13964

How to find an ILADS-educated LL:

N.D. (Naturopathic Doctor);

L.Ac. (Acupuncturist);

D.Ay. (Doctor of Ayurvedic Medicine);

D.O.M. (Doctor of Oriental Medicine);

Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)

Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:

Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;

knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.

You can compare and contrast many approaches.

BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,

BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,

LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,

BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and

RIFE links.
-

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randibear
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Get buhners book. It's on amazon and not very expensive. I believe he has changed his protocol to resveratrol, cats claw and eleuthero and andrographis is next

Iherb is a good place to start if you want to order just one bottle and work your way up. I found it easy to do cause I could control the cost and number of pills I took.

Also I had very little die off and that was important

--------------------
do not look back when the only course is forward

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Keebler
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-
While some don't have access the the best kind of doctor in any disciple, the above thread offers much to read. But, as a comprehensive reference set, it can take a while to work through it.

Zeroing in on your questions, I don't have the answer but here are the first two place to begin.

------------------------------------------

Buhner ("Buh" is pronounced as first syllable of "beautiful") highlights various herbs - along with fabulous explanations of how lyme & other tick-borne or stealth infections work.

I learned so much from this book, even aside from the herbal detail. Even for those not planning on this path, this book is invaluable.
----

http://tinyurl.com/5vnsjg

Book: Healing Lyme: Natural Healing And Prevention of Lyme Borreliosis And Its Coinfections - by Stephen Harrod Buhner

Website: http://planetthrive.com/2009/08/buhner-healing-lyme-program/

Forum: http://planetthrive.com/category/experts/buhner/


http://www.gaianstudies.org/Lyme.html

Buhners recommendations for professionals familiar with his work. Scroll down for list.

=========================================

Allicin (from Garlic), Coptis, Smilax are key here.

HH - Houttuynia - is discussed in here. Also read from other professionals sources & so a serach at PubMed. Still, best to have a LL herbalist.

---------------

http://tinyurl.com/5drx94

Lyme Disease and Modern Chinese Medicine - by Dr. QingCai Zhang, MD & Yale Zhang

web site: try www.sinomedresearch.org

Passwords: "clinic" and then "clinic" again

or call for help: Hepapro - www.hepapro.com
-

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Keebler
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Be sure that no herb is taken alone as they all work best in combination & rotation. Still you asked about HH, for a start:

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/ubb/search/search_forum/1

Search LymeNet Archives for:

HH

Houttuynia
-

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Maya12
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Hey Keebler thanks for all your help and links you are always such a wealth of knowledge, you should have been an llmd yourself .

I think I have decided to wait to talk to my llmd about the hh caps

Only other thing I am wondering is , is it ok to take reversatrol? This is the only supp I have added on my own.

Also every time I take planq for a few days I get almost suicidal, not truest suicidal but just nutts is this likely from the planq and biaxin causing a Bart herx?

I don't seem to ever be able to take planq for more than a few days does anyone ever pulse it like three days a week? To have a few days without it to detox?

I don't want to totally give up on planq but wonder if pulsing it can be done till the load is down enough to really handle it full time

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Keebler
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-
IMO, yes, reversatrol should be fine.

I always think it's good to read all about anything before taking it, though. Buhner's book is excellent there.

As a rule: always start with just one, with a meal, middle of the day, away from Rx and away from probiotics.

When first starting, keep separate from other herbs, too. Until you see how it goes. Then, reversatrol should be fine with other herbs.

After you see how it works with a meal, then for those that are to be on an empty stomach, then you can move to that. It's just that I find it's best to have some food with a herb for the first couple of doses.

Reversatrol has "wired" some folks but I really never noticed any difference. Since some get "wired" (or experience a herx of sorts) that is why I suggest with food in the middle of the day for the beginning test.


Plaq.?

Sorry I can't answer about planq - never taken it. But I certainly understand a suicidal reaction to certain Rx in the past. After 3 days on melatonin, I'm suicidal. I have tried many times, even with low dose. So, I know that is just not the right one for me.

IMO, that's a dangerous effect that - even if there is no follow-through -- that's not a healthful state for your body to be in.

Something has to change. Now, it may be that your liver support or kidney support needs adjusting (as, often, a suicidal reaction is an overload of toxins - but it can also be a drop in blood glucose or adrenal "crashing" - etc.) . . . .

Something has to change but I just don't know what. I hope your LLMD can help. If he or she is not familiar with herbal medicine, you might want to find a LL ND to work alongside your LLMD.
-

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Maya12
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Hey keebler thanks again for the help I am actually taking tonnes of liver support including milk thistle, NAC , alpha lipoic acid and also detoxing with chlorella and charcoal with physsilium husks

Gotta talk to my llmd about this

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Keebler
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-
Good idea.

I can't believe I forgot about this possibility.

Anytime a Rx, herb or even food, triggers depression, anxiety or even suicidal feelings, it could be that it creates too many porphyrins in the body.

Or you could be allergic to the drug or something IN the drug. Be sure they are gluten-free and as free of dyes as possible. Sometimes, a different strengths may have less dye, then just adjust.

Also consider counterfeit drugs. CAREFULLY examine each new Rx with the mfg. website photos. Counterfeits can look nearly identical. But if anything is off, the sheen, ANYTHING, do not take it and follow up.

Backing up to porphyria, I'm now officially toast so have to stop. First - see the "Secondary Porphyria" link in the Porphyria thread at the bottom - and then circle back to the others if needed.

===================

http://ciin.org/

CIIN - Chemical Injury Information Network


http://ciin.org/mcs.html

About MCS (Multiple Chemical Sensitivities)

. . . Disorders of Porphyrinopathy . . .

==================================

http://planetthrive.com/2010/04/hpukpu-protocol-for-lyme-and-autism/

HPU / KPU Protocol - Planet Thrive

===================================

http://flash.lymenet.org/scripts/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/1/91842?#000000

Topic: what type of M.D. tests for PORPHYRIA

Many good links here - including those for MTHFR, KPU /HPU . . . .
-

[ 05-13-2012, 01:50 PM: Message edited by: Keebler ]

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Maya12
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I
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Maya12
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Hey Keebler I have been looking into the koi connection and it seems like my llmd has me on most of the supps for this already incd the vitamins etc.

The only thing I am not on it the higher carb diet

So it seems I am already treating this but I am thinking I should also be increasing my exercise , I am feeling very toxic and think I need to exercise more to clear my lymph system and detox the muscles out more

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Maya12
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Kpu connection I mean , darn auto correct
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Keebler
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Not sure what you mean by exercise more. More is not always better. Remember, aerobics are not suggested for those with infection.

Move, of course. Just not too fast or aggressively.

Walking works wonders.
-

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Maya12
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Oh I mean like moving the lawn where I am walking and also using my muscles to push and pull
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Maya12
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Just being low impact anaerobic active to pump the muscles out walking and mild exercise always clear my head
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Maya12
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Mowing the lawn I mean , darn autocorrect on these I phones
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