I have been ill for 2.5 years and in treatment for 26 months. I have done some IV antibiotics, orals and supplements the entire time, and on my third LLMD. Quite frankly, I am not much better! I have not focused much on detox outside of some Welchol and drinking lemon water sporadically throughout this ordeal. This month, along with my normal continued protocol, my LLMD wants to focus heavily on detox...Intestinal Drawing Formula, etc.
A few questions...
Has anyone found detox to be the "missing piece" to all of this and, if so, did it cause you to turn the corner, even after having been ill for years?
I am just concerned that this is yet more money to be flushed down the lyme toilet.
Any thoughts would be appreciated...thanks in advance!
~tri
-------------------- ? date of bite/no rash 10/09 symptoms, 4/10 diagnosed, after 6 mos. ER visits, tons of docs/tests CDC+ 23/39/41/45/58/66/93 currently on oral plaquenil, doryx, rifampin, pyrazinamide, nystatin, numerous supplements Posts: 718 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2010
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Sammi
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 110
posted
I believe detox is extremely important. Otherwise, the toxins killed from the bacteria are just circulating in your body.
I find Intestinal Drawing Formula is one beneficial product for detox. It must be taken hours away from any meds or supplements. i have found that Amazon has the best price, and it ships free.
There are many good ways to detox. I suggest doing a search here, and I am sure you will find a lot of useful information.
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TF
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posted
The fasting and epsom salts were tough, but afterward I felt good. I think I did about four of them. I felt good for a few days afterward, then the next one, a little longer, then finally, after the last one, I didn't get fatigued anymore.
-------------------- sixgoofykids.blogspot.com Posts: 13449 | From Ohio | Registered: Feb 2007
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tickled1
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posted
Detox is huge. I am realizing this is probably the biggest issue for me. I have found out that my genetics are terrible for detoxing.
I have MTHFR (homozygous C677T), KPU, and HLA-DR genotypes that can't detox mold or Lyme. My doc says the toxins are just recirculating.
Glutathione helps and doc also wants me to do coffee enemas and liver flushes but I haven't tried them yet b/c I react very badly if I try to detox too fast.
That is from years of accumulated toxins that my body can't deal with all at once so I have to go very very slow as to not overwhelm my system.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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canefan17
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posted
Ok thanks
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- I prefer to call it liver support. But, whatever it's called, yes - it's absolutely vital - because the liver can cause kill you when it is overwhelmed.
If the liver can't work, nothing about your body can work, either. Nothing.
We have to be very kind with our (respective) livers. That's a very involved process and commitment due to the severe toxicities of lyme and all that go with it. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- In general (not lyme specific):
Tilltoson says (somewhere in his book) that if a person does not eat enough vegetables & fruits, it is impossible to be able to enable natural detoxification processes. The antioxidants + fiber are key. Beyond that:
----------------
From �The One Earth Herbal Sourcebook� (Tillotson, et.al.)
Review for: Detoxify or Die - by Sherry Rogers, MD -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- You might want to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present. -----------------------
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links. -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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canefan17
Frequent Contributor (5K+ posts)
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posted
What's HLA-DR genotypes
Posts: 5394 | From Houston, Tx | Registered: Aug 2009
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
Member # 12673
posted
- canefan,
Lots of good links from a web search of the term. Start with this cross search:
HLA-DR+genotype, neurotoxin
There have also been various threads here about that:
LymeNet Archives -
Posts: 48021 | From Tree House | Registered: Jul 2007
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
Member # 4622
posted
Detox is an important (but not only) piece of the puzzle. Along with treating infections/coinfections, yeast and parasites, rebalancing minerals, and lifestyle changes.
Often times, it is easy to confuse remaining symptoms, attributing them all to lyme and co, when in fact the infection may be dormant, and the other issues are at play.
And yes, I did get well many years ago and have remained that way.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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tickled1
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Member # 14257
Good article explaining it.
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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tickled1
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posted
lymeinhell, are you in remission?
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
Yes. 7+ years now.
When I was weaned off abx, I was fearful because I did not fit the '2 months of no symptoms' rule. I still had symptoms, but they turned out to be from yeast, which was messing with my blood sugar and ATP production, and continued magnesium deficiency, which brought on painful muscle spazms in my head and neck. Took a while, but cleaned that all up too.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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And...Julie...how long did it take you to get to remission? And was it some good and bad days mixed in at first and then all good/remission?
-------------------- ? date of bite/no rash 10/09 symptoms, 4/10 diagnosed, after 6 mos. ER visits, tons of docs/tests CDC+ 23/39/41/45/58/66/93 currently on oral plaquenil, doryx, rifampin, pyrazinamide, nystatin, numerous supplements Posts: 718 | From Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2010
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
my doctor never mentions any kind of detox or support.
sigh....
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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lymeinhell
Frequent Contributor (1K+ posts)
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posted
I spent 4 mos on levaquin pre-lyme dx, followed by another 9 most on abx for lyme and bart. The first few months were h***, but by month 4 (when I started detoxing), normal moments crept in now and again, and herxing was almost tolerable.
I began to be able to function even when herxing, and good hours/days came more frequently.
I did have to remind myself that healing was a roller coaster, because it's easy to have a knee jerk reaction fearing relapse if you have a bad day after a day or two of good or even 'normal'.
Seeing your signature listing your treatment, I would suggest you focus your energy on detox and YEAST for sure. Neuro stuff such as brain fog is just as much from yeast as it is Lyme.
-------------------- Julie _ _ ___ _ _ lymeinhell
Blessed are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed. Posts: 2258 | From a better place than I was 11 yrs ago | Registered: Sep 2003
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nonna05
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posted
Julie, What kind of detoxing did you start with?
Sixgoofy, What is the liver cleanse that's fast/epsom salts?? What is involved with the procedure??
I know TF said she just drank lots of lemon water.
Does CMS count as detox ??/
Thank you.. ME
Posts: 2563 | From Denver,CO | Registered: Aug 2011
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posted
I am successfully detoxing via using a far infrared portable sauna every 5 days. Takes me about 1/2 hour to sweat and then I shower off. I am chemical sensitive and am getting over it gradually.
Posts: 13116 | From San Francisco | Registered: May 2006
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posted
I know I need to do this. I feel everything backing up in my body. I do cranial sacral/ manual therapy to help with lymph movement and with liver and speen
I just started liposome glutathione that seems to help temporarily
I tried coffee enemas but they were not for me. Felt way worse afterwards.
I also have a biomat mini whic helps me sweat. But I really need the full size. It also helps raise my body temp which helps kill the bugs
I know llmd mentioned a detox supplement but I haven't tried it yet
What other things are people doing? I think detox helps move things along. I feel like I can't move my neck because the glands are so swollen but if my pt works on my liver things start to move.
This is quite an education huh?
-------------------- Tick bite in 2006, bullseye rash, treated with 2 rounds of 2 weeks of doxy. (once in 2006, once in 2009) Dx with chronic Lyme May 2011. LLMD April 2012, Treating with omnicef/zith Lots of supplements! Posts: 640 | From Connecticut | Registered: Apr 2011
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tickled1
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posted
lymeinhell, what did you do to get rid of yeast?
Posts: 2541 | From Northeast | Registered: Jan 2008
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Keebler
Honored Contributor (25K+ posts)
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posted
- Nonna,
You asked: "What is the liver cleanse that's fast/epsom salts?"
Is "fast" what we really want or need?
Fast can result in damage. It's not like flushing a toilet or even washing a textile. It's a much slower process.
A nice cozy warm (not hot) bath for 20 minutes, soaking in water and epsom salts can be very nice to help with blood circulation, lymph circulation and liver circulation, too.
Asking for a "fast cleanse" - as many do here - really worries me. And that's why I prefer the term "liver support" over "detox" as "detox" can sometimes seem to imply an event.
Yet, "liver support" is not enough and other methods to help the liver do need to be employed when treating lyme.
So, the term "detox" does serve that purpose but, still, it's never intended to be a fast ticket from an overwhelmed liver to a spiffy clean and perky liver. There may be some things that "push" it just a bit -- but it's hard to know how much is too much, sometimes.
Taking care of the liver, or detox, is not an event or strong action constrained to an hour -- but an on-going practice that remains balanced. Doing anything too fast, too strong, can actually cause the liver more stress.
I would have hoped your LLMD might have outlined the best liver support / detox plan for YOUR body, as each person is different and has different needs.
Consistency, though, is vital for all.
There may be some liver "flushes" recommended as not too strong, fast or harsh. Some are, though. It's a matter of degree and kindness, really. Whatever we do, the liver must be treated kindly.
The basic links above always hold new detail for me each time I look back over them.
Some of the holistic LLMDs and some LL NDs who have written articles and books in the thread below have good guides, too.
You might want to look over those here:
==================================
For this kind of approach, it's best to consult with an ILADS-educated LL (lyme literate) doctor who has completed four years of post-graduate medical education in the field of herbal and nutritional medicine -
- and someone who is current with ILADS' research & presentations, past and present. -----------------------
Integrative / Holistic M.D., etc. (Be aware that those in this category can have various levels of formal herbal &/or nutritional education, perhaps even just a short course. Do ask first.)
Links to many articles and books by holistic-minded LL doctors of various degrees who all have this basic approach in common:
Understanding of the importance of addressing the infection(s) fully head-on with specific measures from all corners of medicine;
knowing which supplements have direct impact, which are only support and which are both.
You can compare and contrast many approaches.
BASIC HERBAL EDUCATIONAL & SAFETY links,
BODY WORK links with safety tailored to lyme patients,
LOW HEAT INFRARED SAUNA detail,
BIONIC 880 (& PE-1) links, and
RIFE links. -
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randibear
Honored Contributor (10K+ posts)
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posted
yeah anything "fast" puts me down real quick.
-------------------- do not look back when the only course is forward Posts: 12262 | From texas | Registered: Mar 2007
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Tammy N.
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Member # 26835
posted
It's become a necessity for me to stay on top of detox, no question about it. Recently, coffee enemas have been hugely beneficial for me. I'm also taking microsilica at night. Lemon water during the day. Would really love to learn to sweat next.
After being ill for so long with such lengthy treatment, I would strongly suggest going after parasites in a very serious way. I just started treatment and cannot believe what is happening. Remember, Willy Bergdorfer found filarial worms in dissected ticks. I think this is one of the primary infections that keeps us ill and unable to get over Lyme and cos. I wish I knew this years ago.
Posts: 2238 | From East Coast | Registered: Jul 2010
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